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    You guys forgot something about DWGR [Spoiler]

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    Post by Shindori Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:54 am

    Havel's Ring. Also, ring of Favor and Protection. With high enough stmina, i think big builds will still be able to flip.
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    Post by dannyhugz Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:09 am

    Considering MoM and 3/4 havels with a zwei requires around 60 end WITH RoFaP I doubt it unless you go 99 end which would make your vit tank. I like what they've done with it TBH lol
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    Post by BackwardsBaboon Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:11 am

    Even if they want to devote 2 ring slots just to ninja flip (which most of them are doing now) it will still take a lot more stat points into END Since you get no extra stamina after 40, if they wanna waste a crap-ton of stat points just to look ridiculous then that's fine with me!
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    Post by Forum Pirate Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:13 am

    not big builds no, not without serious end gouging. What people forgot was the wolfs ring. 76poise beiber ring users will still be there, they'll just favor rapiers and spears over the bkga.
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    Post by Eolan Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:14 am

    Excellent they have made changes to that fing ring. It was a nuisance.
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    Post by Juutas Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:15 am

    You can't still flip in full havel's or giants even if you sacrifice all your ring slots for it happy
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    Post by Eolan Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:17 am

    Decent. That makes me happy. I asked this in my questions of the day post, but do you know if bb glitching is still in?
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    Post by Forum Pirate Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:18 am

    unconfirmed.
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    Post by fujiphoenix Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:11 am

    Will this patch come out for consoles before or after the dlc drops for us?
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    Post by BackwardsBaboon Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:16 am

    If I had to guess, I'd say the patch would be tied in with the compatibility patch, which will most likely be released at the same time as the DLC.
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    Post by fujiphoenix Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:28 am

    horse apples sad
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    Post by ICEFANG Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:32 am

    It requires 67 END to fast roll at the same 40 EL with Havel's Ring, and the DWGR flip is overall better. Without it, even at 99, you aren't able to have as much EL (34.8). Although Havel's and RoFaP still gives as much EL at 49 (which isn't bad), that takes 2 rings, and really makes a character very straightforward.
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    Post by Forum Pirate Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:43 am

    seriously, wolf ring. WOLF RING.

    One can still hit 76 poise and use the beiber ring to spam roll bs. Why its not ok in havels but totally fine otherwise is baffeling.

    With the silver knight spear and shield no less, so trading for a rapier and dark hand would allow more weight for armor. This is at 40 end btw, if you're willing to gouge a little you can use more armor. They may not look the part, but flip tanks arn't going anywhere
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    Post by FruitPunchNinja Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:45 am

    I agree with forum, i think most try hard builds will end up looking like this http://tinyurl.com/9kperrf . I am very happy about this change though, it is an improvement. While yea str weapons might suffer, it will get rid of the people who roll bs fish with str weapons. That will be a lot harder to pull off. I do think people will just use 53 poise as the new breakpoint, and try and to adapt by learning to toggle. Still i think actual tank builds will have a lot more of a fighting chance, i will have to wait 4months to see how it turns out : (



    *i don't think they will be "flip tanks" but fast roll tanks, which is an improvement. I am expecting people to still use the dwgr though, especially the people who have gotten very used to roll bs with it.It will still be viable, just because of its i-frames. Still much more balanced.
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    Post by Forum Pirate Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:54 am

    I was ecpecting more like this

    http://tinyurl.com/9upz3e6

    But that str weapons take the hit and dex weapons dont is BS. If we can't move fast, can't stunlock, and cant roll bs, wtf are we supposed to do?
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    Post by ICEFANG Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:57 am

    You are supposed to hit them, which should be easier for people who medium roll, fast rolling has its disadvantage too. While many things that players use aren't changed, and Wolf Ring will be the new norm, it will be much easier to hit someone who fast rolls. Besides, don't a lot of STR weapons not care about 53 poise?
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    Post by Forum Pirate Fri Aug 24, 2012 12:07 pm

    DEX monkeys, the lot of you. Str weapons are generally so slow that they more or less need the 53 poise, so their attacks arn't interrupted by the claymore.

    I don't know what the first part of your post is about, but the med roll is not a good thing for heavy weapons. It kills movement speed, which makes us easier to punish (and its already easy) because we can't escape a sloppy attempt or close the gap with spear users. Especially with the beiber ring still entirely viable for dex builds, its not going to be any easier to hit anybody with a str weapon, but it will be easier for them to hit us.
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    Post by ICEFANG Fri Aug 24, 2012 12:14 pm

    Oh well, I don't care if STR builds are less common, I'm not a DEX player, but they were so rare already, the removal of a large chunk of DWGR's effectiveness is worth a few players who can't play anymore.
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    Post by Forum Pirate Fri Aug 24, 2012 12:29 pm

    They being str users? Gee, thanks. Look at the builds on the previous page, its not changing a whole lot once people figure it out. So dex is largley unaffected, but str (mostly inferior already byt) gets nerfed to hell. Terrible balance at its finest.
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    Post by FruitPunchNinja Fri Aug 24, 2012 12:40 pm

    Ive been making str build with no dwgr for a while now, its not impossible. Although i think you were the one who said any weapon above about 16lbs has a death sentence. http://tinyurl.com/9eujj77 you can make str builds work though, just need to have 45-55 end. Its really not that bad.
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    Post by Forum Pirate Fri Aug 24, 2012 12:56 pm

    It is when you pvp at 80. It also is when the beiber ring was the only thing staying your grisly death on a spear point, and not only can they still use it, and still avoid a stunlock, without a stat investment.

    I did say (somewhere) that it can be done, but it further handicapps str builds, while not doing jack squat to dex. Thats the issue, that dex isn't really affected, but str gets nerfed.

    It didn't need a nerf, if anything str weapons need a buff. In theory they're stunlock kings, but in practice everyone has 76 poise, so not only are they easy to punish and difficult to hit with, but now they need to end gouge to even maintain a regular fast roll and passable armor.

    Again, if the wolf ring is butchered, so hitting 76 poise and fast rolling at the same time doesn't work, then I have no problem, because when I do hit it will turn the tide of the battle.

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