Wild speculation, ''Broken Pendant, Pendant, and Manus.'' POSSIBLE SPOILERS

Hey guys, this is actually my first time posting here, have been lurking around a bit, I'm fairly new to the game so go gentle on me

Anyway I have built up this wild idea wich has been stuck in my mind, as I've been watching ENB's and several other lore interpretations:

Is there any chance Manus, the father of the abyss, might actually be
the ''chosen undead''(the player)?

Basicly there are ''hints'' that led me to think this:

-The pendant/broken pentant: in their description 2 things caught my atention, both strongly represent feelings of nostalgia, and both give importance to that same feeling.

-How the player reacts to hollowing, now this is also my speculation, but on the opening cinematic you can see the furtive pygmy, he looks just like a regular hollow, however, every other hollow you encounter in the game is completely deranged, still the ''chosen undead'' might lose his souls and humanity but never loses his mind, could this possible be an effect of the dark soul? I realise that many believe the dark souls was ''spread'' across all humans but maybe it's left that effect on the pygmy.

-Finnaly the obsession we as players have towards the pendant and that Manus has towards the broken pendant, making him bend space and time to actually fetch it back.

Now you might ask, if you kill manus in the past then how could you possible live in the present then?
In my opinion that to is open to speculation, maybe the primordial serpent had it's hand(or head >_>) in it, maybe the pygmy truly is immortal since you can't die in the game either, and you simply lost all your memories, or someone took them away.. wich wouldn't be surprised as everyone except Sunbro tries to manipulate you to fullfill their intentions.

A side point that I also wonder is why do the primordial serpent says ''our lord hath returned'st'' the returned part is interesting, as I don't know of another entity who ''commanded'' the abyss other than Manus.

Well this is basicly it just wanted to share it with you guys, and get your opinions, and basicly learn more about the lore I'm fairly new to the game, (Pc Master Race Represent! j/k) so I'm sure some of the vets will easily point out the mistakes and holes that undoubtly there are in my theory! Cheers!

None of your points made sense to me except the last one. Though I'm thinking that Manus is the ruler of the abyss and the dark lord is the ruler of the "real world" once the flames have faded.

Keep in mind that Manus was driven mad by Oolacilians, and that the chosen undead never actually goes insane.

Not sure whether my points are valid or not.

Hmm what makes people hollow is a mood point.

Personally i think You go hollow when you lose your humanity however that you can remain sane if you are focused enough on a goal (hence the hollow merchants are still sort of sane). An interesting point: if an undead becomes hollow is it possible to turn them back from it? Im talking insane hollow. A wild point i know but from what Seligenade says it sounds like Seig has been hollow before.

Aevun wrote:
Keep in mind that Manus was driven mad by Oolacilians.

He was already insane when the Oolacilians uncovered the abyss

Lordloudmouth wrote:

Aevun wrote:
Keep in mind that Manus was driven mad by Oolacilians.

He was already insane when the Oolacilians uncovered the abyss

No.....well sort of..... He was driven mad by his desire to have the broken pendant returned to him when the people of Oolacile disturbed "the tomb of primeval man', his humanity went wild though what that mean i dont know?

Pursuers and the Soul of Manus give us pretty strong hints towards the yearning or lust Manus had for the Broken Pendant.

Though I do like the theory about the Dark Lord being Manus and visa versa.

Personally I could see the Dark Soul having been taken from Manus at some point.... if indeed he ever possessed it. Though what the Dark Soul is ....well thats an entirely different line of thinking.

InfiniteDoomsday wrote:The player character is on the brink of becoming hollow, the undead only go insane due to lack of humanity for a certain period of time.

Hmm I'm not entirely certain of that point, I mean when the game starts we are trapped in the asylum supposedly left with no humanity, of course the point can be made for how long we've been there, if there is any indication it's unknown to me.

Regarding not going hollow unless we're focused on a goal it makes me wonder, did we really have a goal while we were trapped? we didn't even know about the ''prophecy'' of the chosen undead one assumes.

Of course maybe the only reason we didnt go insane might be because of the dark soul wich is where humanity came from, we also know for a fact that too much humanity deforms you, maybe that's what happened to manus, and losing his memento of his memories that might've been the last connection to his human side he really had, drove him mad who knows..

InfiniteDoomsday wrote:The player character is on the brink of becoming hollow, the undead only go insane due to lack of humanity for a certain period of time.

played the whole game as hollow; stayed sane.

What intrigues me about the broken pendant is who did it belong to? I know Manus is the obvious answer, but we find the pendant inside a crystal golem. Seath uses crystal golems to trap people. So it would make sense that whoever owned the pendant died inside that golem.

So, was it Manus himself that was trapped and died in the golem? Maybe it was someone Manus cared for. Or maybe it was just some powerful/important being (the pygmy) and Manus wanted his swag.

Speaking about the undead, did anyone wonder why some of the undead attack you, some doesn't attack unless you hurt them and some doesn't attack you at all even if you hurt them. Plus there is a magic called undead something which makes the undead in your side if you touch one of them, maybe it have a special effect on one of the non-attackers undead which will open a new path or reveal a secret?

hmm if your speculation is right then this would sort of tie well with how everything still repeats even if you get the dark lord ending. as we know your past can be "blurred" lets say that during your reign as the dark lord you were betrayed (most likely by frampt). Your past was blurred and you were somehow killed and buried and someone was used as fuel to light the first flame. we know the pendant holds some sentimental value and is the only connection to your blurred past so when your grave was disturbed and the pendant broken/taken away you go mad. this doesnt explain though why the broken pendant has power if it is was originally your pendant also Manus was a primeval human and you are most definitely not primeval

Well I like Manus was the pygmy, but I also like Viral's thinking. We know time is distorted, but not that distorted most likely.

That may explain why Kaathe needed another Dark Lord because we know the Abyss became a problem when Manus was disturbed. So if Manus was a dark lord and that caused the abyss to spread then of course the serpeants would another dark lord. They've set up shop in the abyss and it means that they would have to do very little work to gather the humanity they desire (if that is what they're after) because the abyss will kill or corrupt anyone who touches it or is exposed to it.

Also wouldn't the pygmy be the 1st Dark Lord? Thus he would have gathered up alot of humanity and when he finally passed, but was brought back as Manus then all that stored humanity drove him crazy or something. Perhaps the Dark Wraiths aren't merely keeping humanity till the world is ready for it, but rather are just pawns being used by the Primordal Serpeants to gather it so they can recreate another Manus to make the Abyss a huge issue.

I really like this theory that Manus is the Chosen Undead/Dark Lord. The connection between the pendants is really slick and makes sense to me. It's like the Chosen Undead is a Looper, lol. I can get behind that. It may all be hogwash but I like it. (^_^)d

[quote="Karay"]

InfiniteDoomsday wrote:losing his memento of his memories that might've been the last connection to his human side he really had, drove him mad who knows..

This is interesting. Miyazaki's comment about the pendant was that if he were roleplaying, he'd start with the pendant, or nothing. The reason his player character is sane at the start of the game is that he has his memento!