Souls Series Wiki Forums

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

+2
tinypantha
Raem
6 posters

    The origins of the Dark Souls Lore

    Raem
    Raem
    Raem
    Casual
    Casual


    Posts : 36
    Reputation : 4
    Join date : 2012-10-24
    • Post n°1

    The origins of the Dark Souls Lore Empty The origins of the Dark Souls Lore

    Post by Raem Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:58 am

    Hello all,

    I am new to the community of Dark Souls and I have made many thoughts about the games lore and did some recherche about the lore and the origins of the game.

    I wont post everything I found out here because it is too much and it wouldn't be fun to spoil everything for you as the journey for answers is the most fun part of the game and will leave you with fond memories for ages winking.

    The Celtic origins

    Many of you know the Arthurian epic story about Picts, Excalibur, Witches and stuff.
    So first of all, many of the names of the epos are found also in Dark Souls.
    One of this names is the name Gawain, or if you pronounce the vocals short ,,Gwyn".
    Gawain was one of the knights of King Arthur. He did some cool stuff but that is not important here.
    Important is his family: His father was the god Lugh, and at the times of the old Celtics he was the god of the Sun.

    (Well, he was, because over the time the Celtics changed their gods and they were replaced by Christian, Nordic and Germanic gods.)

    So, as Lugh ( from Germanic ,,lucht" and German ,,Licht") was Gwains father, Gwains power was none at night but got stronger in the morning, and was strongest at noon, only to fade again.

    (My personal interpretation of the Dark Sign is also an Eclipse or the Earth in front of the sun but that is just sepculation. But think about it winking .)

    Another thing is the old celtic word ,,lond" . It means ,,wild" and is speculated to be the origin of the city London.
    Well, also in Dark Souls we have the word lond, twice.

    Anor Londo: lond= wild but Anor = ?

    I googled ,,Anor". My results: Anor sseems to be the word for ,,flame" in the Lord of the Ring story.Would fit.

    We know that From Soft were influenced by many other games and movies so LotR does not seem too far away.

    Anor Londo= Wild Flame?

    Anyways, check out the Celtic gods, it was enlightening.

    I also got some solid speculations on other parts of the game but right now I don't have the time to post it all so see ya and sorry for the bad structure.
    • Back to top
    tinypantha
    tinypantha
    tinypantha
    Insomniac
    Insomniac


    Posts : 1060
    Reputation : 28
    Join date : 2012-09-25
    Age : 26
    Location : Gensōkyō, In Search For I
    • Post n°2

    The origins of the Dark Souls Lore Empty Re: The origins of the Dark Souls Lore

    Post by tinypantha Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:00 pm

    Welcome to the forums, and nice post
    • Back to top
    skarekrow13
    skarekrow13
    skarekrow13
    Chat Moderator


    Posts : 10236
    Reputation : 410
    Join date : 2012-01-27
    Location : Ralph Wilson Stadium
    • Post n°3

    The origins of the Dark Souls Lore Empty Re: The origins of the Dark Souls Lore

    Post by skarekrow13 Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:43 pm

    Welcome and awesome analysis. Might I suggest some "light" reading?

    This thread has a pretty decent discussion of things you might find interesting.
    • Back to top
    OrnsteinFanBoy
    OrnsteinFanBoy
    OrnsteinFanBoy
    Addicted
    Addicted


    Posts : 162
    Reputation : 2
    Join date : 2012-09-25
    Age : 33
    Location : Odnol Rona - UK
    • Post n°4

    The origins of the Dark Souls Lore Empty Re: The origins of the Dark Souls Lore

    Post by OrnsteinFanBoy Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:11 pm

    Welcome to the forums dude and thanks for contributing from post one happy interesting stuff
    • Back to top
    Sergeant Soy
    Sergeant Soy
    Sergeant Soy
    Casual
    Casual


    Posts : 42
    Reputation : 2
    Join date : 2012-10-01
    Age : 27
    Location : Lordran (obviously)
    • Post n°5

    The origins of the Dark Souls Lore Empty Re: The origins of the Dark Souls Lore

    Post by Sergeant Soy Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:23 pm

    Welcome here! Its always nice to have a thinker join, especially one who looks up outside references (unlike me silly )
    • Back to top
    Acarnatia
    Acarnatia
    Acarnatia
    Caffeinated
    Caffeinated


    Posts : 979
    Reputation : 59
    Join date : 2012-10-02
    Age : 32
    Location : Between the Dark and Light
    • Post n°6

    The origins of the Dark Souls Lore Empty Re: The origins of the Dark Souls Lore

    Post by Acarnatia Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:34 am

    One of the first problems in your terminology is stating that 'Celtic' is a language-it's not. There were several Celtic languages, most of which were different enough to be considered separate languages, not merely dialects. Furthermore, Arthurian legend is Welsh, not 'Celtic'-Arthurian legend is from Midieval Wales, after the Welsh had mostly converted to Christianity and much of their folklore or figures had changed. For example, a king of the Otherworld, Arawn, who had been revered, became a god specifically of Death and evil only after the Christianizing of Wales, even becoming something akin to if not actually the Devil in Arthurian legend.
    Gawain is different from the name 'Gwyn', which literally means 'white, blessed, or holy' in Welsh, whereas the name Gawain is believed to come from Galwachmei ap Gwyar or Gwallt Avwun, which has a meaning along the lines of 'hair like reins' or 'bright hair'. You are correct that some people link him to the Irish Setanta who became known as Cuchulainn, an Irish figure similar to Achilles and indeed the son of Lugh. Lugh, while he was once considered to by a few to be a sun god, the lore surrounding him along with his name actually more likely point to him as a god of lightning-though, with the two of those combined and the fact that his weapon of choice was the spear, (sunlight spear, anyone?) I give you credit on that. Lugh was not the first king, though-in fact, he was a young scrapper that the Irish fairy-gods turned to only out of desperation because of several factors; 1, he has a master at nearly every craft there was ; 2, he was the son of the king of their enemies, a race of giants, and it had been fortold that his father, Balor of the Evil Eye, (a possible reference for the Ring of the Evil Eye? Astora already seemed to me to be a possible metaphor for the British Isles) would fall by his own son. There is nothing like this between Gwyn and the dragons in the Dark Souls story, and as there is actually no connection between Gawain and Gwyn, that version of the theory has no grounding. Gwyn very well may have just been influenced by the story of Lugh, though-there's just not a link through their names.
    Interestingly, there is a figure in pre-Christian Brythonic mythology named Gwyn-Gwyn ap Nud, or Gwyn, son of Nud. (Nud is believed by some to be another name for Lludd, though the similar name to Llugh from the Irish myths is possibly only that- a name similarity. Lludd, or Lludd of the Silver Hand, is sometimes equated to the Irish Nuada Airgetlam, or 'Nuada of the Silver Hand', who was the first king of the Irish fairy-gods, and who wielded a greatsword referred to as 'claimh solais', or 'sword of light'. Gwyn did eventually end up using a greatsword, he obviously had a connection to light and he was indeed the old and first king of the gods) Gwyn was the king of the Otherworld, the world of the fairies and the dead-thus saying he has a connection to the undead could be plausible. He was also the leader of the Wild Hunt which some variant of features in many northern mythologies.

    Ultimately, I think that if there was any reference to Gawain, Lugh or Cuchulainn, that would be Solaire of Astora, who wields lightning miracles, is obsessed with the sun, refers to the sun as 'a magnificent father', who is speculated to be the Sun's Firstborn and God of war, and whose effectiveness in combat came from skill alone-not magic or supernatural power, refined and practiced skill.
    • Back to top
    Raem
    Raem
    Raem
    Casual
    Casual


    Posts : 36
    Reputation : 4
    Join date : 2012-10-24
    • Post n°7

    The origins of the Dark Souls Lore Empty Re: The origins of the Dark Souls Lore

    Post by Raem Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:14 pm

    Thanks for the replies. big grin

    @Acarnatia Yeah I agree with you in the point that Gwyn is more a reference to Gwyn-Gwyn ap Nud than to Gawain. But Arthur is indeed of Celtic origin and there is scientific evidence that there was really a Celtic King-like figure like Arthur in the 5th century who fought against the Picts and later against the Anglo-Saxon traitors. The euhemerism of the Arthurian legend was later in the mediaval time and my post was refering to the pre-euhemerism legend.

    I also thought about Gwyn-Gwyn ap Nud reference but felt a bit uncomfortable with the idea of the Dark SOuls Gwyn being king of fairies.

    Although after your ( btw. very nice and cool post, nice that there is someone else who is interested in Celtic mythology big grin) I overthought the matter and I think that the fairies is like most in the mythology a metaphor.
    • Back to top
    Acarnatia
    Acarnatia
    Acarnatia
    Caffeinated
    Caffeinated


    Posts : 979
    Reputation : 59
    Join date : 2012-10-02
    Age : 32
    Location : Between the Dark and Light
    • Post n°8

    The origins of the Dark Souls Lore Empty Re: The origins of the Dark Souls Lore

    Post by Acarnatia Thu Oct 25, 2012 5:21 pm

    Uh... the Picts? Arthur was not really in conflict with the Picts; they were having their own problems between the Angles and the Gaels.
    And while some scholars do think of Arthur as 'Celtic', those theories do not have a solid backing. (though, admittedly, this has not stopped many films and games from treating it as such anyways) There is serious doubt as to whether the historical Arthur existed at all. And if that was part of the story, then wouldn't Gwyn be Arthur, the king, or perhaps Uther Pendragon? Gawain was the nephew to Arthur and was a rash, hot-headed childish man-quite unlike the impression I've gotten of Gwyn in Dark Souls. And I'm curious, what do you mean 'scientific evidence'? There is nothing other than a few (very few) references to someone that the folklore Arthur could even be based off of in a few vague documents. Scholars cannot even agree on which century to put him in if he existed at all. Read this-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Arthur
    • Back to top
    Raem
    Raem
    Raem
    Casual
    Casual


    Posts : 36
    Reputation : 4
    Join date : 2012-10-24
    • Post n°9

    The origins of the Dark Souls Lore Empty Re: The origins of the Dark Souls Lore

    Post by Raem Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:25 pm

    It isn't necesserally said that FROm took their characters 1:1 from legends and stuff. As for the evidence I can provide you with them only as early as the week after when I have again English History seminar. Also my Prof could be wrong with his ****, he is kind of an ***.
    • Back to top
    Sponsored content

    Sponsored content


    • Post n°10

    The origins of the Dark Souls Lore Empty Re: The origins of the Dark Souls Lore

    Post by Sponsored content

    • Back to top
      Current date/time is Sun Oct 06, 2024 2:00 am