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    Post by Carphil Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:35 pm

    JBeast wrote:Sometimes when I invade someone who's clearly worse than me and struggling with a level, I'll open up a shortcut for them before slaughtering them... That way I can still feel good about being a darkwrath, but I feel don't feel so awful about making some little nublet want to put the game down

    hapened to me on my first playthrough in Anor Londo, you know there is a door which you can only open from the other side, close to the bonfire, that leads to the silver knight set. By that time, I was using the eastern set with base defenses, so anything would be nice. I got invaded, and the darkwraith opened that door for me, I could summon a phantom before he arrives in the bonfire room and the phantom backstabbed him. So happy ending
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    Post by Scudman_Slayer Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:51 pm

    im a friendly phanton sometimes too i just leave the host alone


    and i like to camp at forest as a red phantom to own some noobs at the forest (from my experience they all suck and use broken tactics of the game such as lagstab)


    i invade just to trade really

    after i invade if the host doesn't find and kill me i send him a message saying "trade?" if he replies we'll sort something out if not i black eye away
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    Post by strangejoy Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:08 pm

    Scudman_Slayer wrote:im a friendly phanton sometimes too i just leave the host alone


    and i like to camp at forest as a red phantom to own some noobs at the forest (from my experience they all suck and use broken tactics of the game such as lagstab)


    i invade just to trade really

    after i invade if the host doesn't find and kill me i send him a message saying "trade?" if he replies we'll sort something out if not i black eye away



    Forest camping to gank "noobs" is pretty low. You should know that the forest invaders are probably about 10-20% (or less) of the level of the hosts that you refuse to engage. For instance, I got 800K souls chain BS'ing a forest host last night. I'm SL12; he must have been over SL700 (I'm less than 1.7% of his level). By your reckoning, I must be a "noob" for chain BS'ing this over-leveled tool who obviously thought that mashing R1 with an SL700 = mad skillz. Forest hosts are almost uniformly pathetic. I have no idea why anyone would help them.
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    Post by Scudman_Slayer Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:14 pm

    strangejoy wrote:
    Scudman_Slayer wrote:im a friendly phanton sometimes too i just leave the host alone


    and i like to camp at forest as a red phantom to own some noobs at the forest (from my experience they all suck and use broken tactics of the game such as lagstab)


    i invade just to trade really

    after i invade if the host doesn't find and kill me i send him a message saying "trade?" if he replies we'll sort something out if not i black eye away



    Forest camping to gank "noobs" is pretty low. You should know that the forest invaders are probably about 10-20% (or less) of the level of the hosts that you refuse to engage. For instance, I got 800K souls chain BS'ing a forest host last night. I'm SL12; he must have been over SL700 (I'm less than 1.7% of his level). By your reckoning, I must be a "noob" for chain BS'ing this over-leveled tool who obviously thought that mashing R1 with an SL700 = mad skillz. Forest hosts are almost uniformly pathetic. I have no idea why anyone would help them.


    whats up with all the hostility all of a sudden? i said that i do it "sometimes" and most of those time i do that with my friends (forgot to mention that silly )

    of course the thing is from my point of view you think ALL hosts who camp there are lvl 200 well sir i found a guy once that was my lvl and i was lvl 80 when i invaded him and helped him, and we were getting invaded by people of lvl 200 or so because ring invasions ignore level range
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    Post by Baal-Avatar Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:18 pm

    I invade all the time and I love it when I invade a host that has help. It makes for a fun fight. If I get someone 1 on 1 who does not have good weapons or it is obvious they are having problems, I usually drop the family masks and maybe a weapon for them and then black stone out. I have so many souls and humanity, I do not even know what to do with them anymore. I figured I can at least help someone out.

    I do not do this in the forest though. It is war in the forest.
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    Post by strangejoy Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:25 pm

    Scudman_Slayer wrote:
    strangejoy wrote:
    Scudman_Slayer wrote:im a friendly phanton sometimes too i just leave the host alone


    and i like to camp at forest as a red phantom to own some noobs at the forest (from my experience they all suck and use broken tactics of the game such as lagstab)


    i invade just to trade really

    after i invade if the host doesn't find and kill me i send him a message saying "trade?" if he replies we'll sort something out if not i black eye away



    Forest camping to gank "noobs" is pretty low. You should know that the forest invaders are probably about 10-20% (or less) of the level of the hosts that you refuse to engage. For instance, I got 800K souls chain BS'ing a forest host last night. I'm SL12; he must have been over SL700 (I'm less than 1.7% of his level). By your reckoning, I must be a "noob" for chain BS'ing this over-leveled tool who obviously thought that mashing R1 with an SL700 = mad skillz. Forest hosts are almost uniformly pathetic. I have no idea why anyone would help them.


    whats up with all the hostility all of a sudden? i said that i do it "sometimes" and most of those time i do that with my friends (forgot to mention that silly )

    of course the thing is from my point of view you think ALL hosts who camp there are lvl 200 well sir i found a guy once that was my lvl and i was lvl 80 when i invaded him and helped him, and we were getting invaded by people of lvl 200 or so because ring invasions ignore level range

    No harm intended. 8) I'm an outspoken forest host hater. I can't deny my hatred for that band of overlevelled-2v1-loving-punks. I'm not 100% sure that you're right about ring invasions completely ignoring levels. As I understand it, ring invaders can invade up but not down (similar to DWs). And even if there is no cap either way, almost all of the covenent members are low-level and have shoddy gear, because this is the first real covenent they can join (WoW doesn't count). Thus, the forest is almost always high level hosts (and phantoms) versus lowbies.
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    Post by Scudman_Slayer Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:27 pm

    strangejoy wrote:
    Scudman_Slayer wrote:
    strangejoy wrote:
    Scudman_Slayer wrote:im a friendly phanton sometimes too i just leave the host alone


    and i like to camp at forest as a red phantom to own some noobs at the forest (from my experience they all suck and use broken tactics of the game such as lagstab)


    i invade just to trade really

    after i invade if the host doesn't find and kill me i send him a message saying "trade?" if he replies we'll sort something out if not i black eye away



    Forest camping to gank "noobs" is pretty low. You should know that the forest invaders are probably about 10-20% (or less) of the level of the hosts that you refuse to engage. For instance, I got 800K souls chain BS'ing a forest host last night. I'm SL12; he must have been over SL700 (I'm less than 1.7% of his level). By your reckoning, I must be a "noob" for chain BS'ing this over-leveled tool who obviously thought that mashing R1 with an SL700 = mad skillz. Forest hosts are almost uniformly pathetic. I have no idea why anyone would help them.


    whats up with all the hostility all of a sudden? i said that i do it "sometimes" and most of those time i do that with my friends (forgot to mention that silly )

    of course the thing is from my point of view you think ALL hosts who camp there are lvl 200 well sir i found a guy once that was my lvl and i was lvl 80 when i invaded him and helped him, and we were getting invaded by people of lvl 200 or so because ring invasions ignore level range

    No harm intended. 8) I'm an outspoken forest host hater. I can't deny my hatred for that band of overlevelled-2v1-loving-punks. I'm not 100% sure that you're right about ring invasions completely ignoring levels. As I understand it, ring invaders can invade up but not down (similar to DWs). And even if there is no cap either way, almost all of the covenent members are low-level and have shoddy gear, because this is the first real covenent they can join (WoW doesn't count). Thus, the forest is almost always high level hosts (and phantoms) versus lowbies.



    true but sometimes there are "rare" cases ya know?

    oh and im pretty sure ring invasion ignores levels because i invaded a guy once that i was lvl 200 and the guy said he was lvl 45 on a PM ( :oops: )
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    Post by strangejoy Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:37 pm

    Scudman_Slayer wrote:true but sometimes there are "rare" cases ya know?

    oh and im pretty sure ring invasion ignores levels because i invaded a guy once that i was lvl 200 and the guy said he was lvl 45 on a PM ( :oops: )

    That's interesting. I tested the ring once by hanging out in the forest as a human with an SL5 (before killing Sif, obviously) while I went to the playground with my daughter. After 2 hours, I was still sitting there (no sign of invasions). I wandered around the forest for another 30 mins while my daughter took a nap, and still got nothing. In a subsequent playthrough, I spent a fair amount of time in the forest as a human with my SL12. Again, I didn't get a single invasion. My SL75, on the other hand, was invaded constantly. Based on this experience, my assumption has always been that forest invaders can't invade down but can invade up.
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    Post by theGentleman Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:42 pm

    Darkwraiths don't have to explain our actions, we do it for the lulz
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    Post by Scudman_Slayer Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:43 pm

    theGentleman wrote:Darkwraiths don't have to explain our actions, we do it for the lulz

    8) 8) 8) 8) yeah!
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    Post by aceluby Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:24 pm

    ZeGlobox wrote:The reason for that is very obvious :

    Killing a SL 100 host will earn around 6000 souls
    Killing a SL 100 blue invader will earn around 30000 ( 5 times !! )

    see ? winking

    I hope this is sarcasm... because you couldn't be more wrong.
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    Post by aceluby Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:27 pm

    theAnimus wrote:Yes, souls received are dependent on a number of unknown things, including SL.

    The amount of souls you get are dependent on one thing from my experience... how many souls the person you killed was carrying. You can tell the good PvPers because they'll carry a lot (I got 10 million pre-patch once), the bad PvPers will carry like 5k. I've literally received zero souls from killing an invader before. Sucked so much.
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    Post by Dustofsaturn Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:33 pm

    Haha, I used to drop powerful weapons and gear and lead the host through Anor Londo.
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    Post by Carphil Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:36 pm

    When I got invaded at the forest on my second playthrough and the darkwraith droped a lightining warpick+4 to me, then rolled of the cliff. All forest hunters were joke after that
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    Post by strangejoy Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:45 pm

    aceluby wrote:
    theAnimus wrote:Yes, souls received are dependent on a number of unknown things, including SL.

    The amount of souls you get are dependent on one thing from my experience... how many souls the person you killed was carrying. You can tell the good PvPers because they'll carry a lot (I got 10 million pre-patch once), the bad PvPers will carry like 5k. I've literally received zero souls from killing an invader before. Sucked so much.

    I don't think this is right. A number of people did testing in November on this, and the consensus was that souls gained is primarily a function of SL. You would gain zero souls under this formula if you were invaded by an SL1 (quite possible). The theory was that hosts generally gain more than phantoms, but that variation for a DW would often appear higher than expected due to their invasion parameters.

    This theory generally accords with my experience. I'm more than happy to test it out if anyone wants. My SL 12 carries about 1.5M souls at the moment. I'll let you kill me, and we can put our theories to the test based on your soul yield.
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    Post by Toastfacekillah Thu Jan 19, 2012 7:22 pm

    I quite like invading forest hosts with my SL100 but recently I can't even use my red eye - I get invaded by Forest Hunters before I can even get down the steps to use it. Everytime. Its kinda nice because its constant action but they're always lower than me. Ofter its two of them V me alone so that evens it up a bit I guess.
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    Post by sparkly-twinkly-lizard Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:42 pm

    I've done the santa phantom thing before, smoughs suit with mask of father (beard) then you run around anor londo dropping items near the boss door and placing prism stones in decorative patterns. Confuses the hell out of people...
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    Post by ZeGlobox Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:17 am

    aceluby wrote:
    ZeGlobox wrote:The reason for that is very obvious :

    Killing a SL 100 host will earn around 6000 souls
    Killing a SL 100 blue invader will earn around 30000 ( 5 times !! )

    see ? winking

    I hope this is sarcasm... because you couldn't be more wrong.

    Sarcasm ?!?!

    Well... just make the calculation for yourself...
    When killing an invader earns 5 times more souls than killing a host.. that's a known fact...

    Check for yourself here :
    https://sites.google.com/site/darksoulstats/dark-souls-calculators/mini-calcs

    (that xl sheet uses the right formula.. I verified it quite intensively)
    Killing invaders is much more worthwhile than killing hosts, it's a fact.

    So please explain to me how "i couldn't be more wrong", I'm very interested !
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    Post by ZeGlobox Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:18 am

    aceluby wrote:
    theAnimus wrote:Yes, souls received are dependent on a number of unknown things, including SL.

    The amount of souls you get are dependent on one thing from my experience... how many souls the person you killed was carrying. You can tell the good PvPers because they'll carry a lot (I got 10 million pre-patch once), the bad PvPers will carry like 5k. I've literally received zero souls from killing an invader before. Sucked so much.

    Nope.. sorry but it's just plain wrong.. the amount of souls you got ONLY depends on the SL of the oponent...

    Check the Excel sheet :
    https://sites.google.com/site/darksoulstats/dark-souls-calculators/mini-calcs

    And verify for yourself if you doubt it winking
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    Post by O66 Jenova Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:59 am

    that calculator doesnt prove anything imo... souls u gain just CAN'T depend on the players SL only... there's more then just forest *** PvP, and i've done a lot. and it's DEFINATELY not the player's SL only... otherwise why would i get more souls from one SL120 then from another SL120 if i'm invading and asking for their SL?

    yesterday i invaded someone who was SL 168 (im SL120) and i got about 4k souls... so what's your explenation for this?
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    Post by ZeGlobox Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:19 am

    O66 Jenova wrote:that calculator doesnt prove anything imo... souls u gain just CAN'T depend on the players SL only... there's more then just forest *** PvP, and i've done a lot. and it's DEFINATELY not the player's SL only... otherwise why would i get more souls from one SL120 then from another SL120 if i'm invading and asking for their SL?

    Think what you want... I've invaded/been invaded numerous times, forest convenant / red soap / darkwraith / darkmoon ... each time I used that tool, I got the exact result (comfirmed by private message, each time I asked).

    There's absolutely no black magic here. The formula is indeed very simple :
    for killed hosts = 0.1 * number of souls to reach next SL
    for killed invaders = 0.5 * number of souls to reach next SL

    a SL 100 requires 61592 souls to get to SL101
    if you kill him when he is host, you'll get 6159 souls
    if you kill him when he invades you, you'll get 30796

    plain and simple...


    Now, believe what you want.. hell, just do the experimentation for yourself, as I did.. each time you kill someone, note the number of souls, try on the XLS, PM for his SL and check .. you'll verify it's true.. always true, whatever the invocation scheme you use, you'll see ! winking
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    Post by O66 Jenova Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:28 am

    ZeGlobox wrote:There's absolutely no black magic here. The formula is indeed very simple :
    for killed hosts = 0.1 * number of souls to reach next SL

    i think you still didn't got my point... if the souls you gain really depends on the amount of souls you need to reach the next SL, theres no reason why i get a different soul amount from almost everyone that's SL 120... i always ask for SL's if it was a good fight to figure out some things, thats proven as well.

    i'm darkwraith, so if im invading it's always the host i get souls from. (minimum SL to invade is SL120 due to im SL120)(i fought 4 SL120's at kiln yesterday - i asked for their SL)
    your calculator says 0,1*92115 (thats the amount you need to level up to SL121) = 9211/9212 Souls.
    But this calculator is not proven since i got less AND more than 9211 Souls from each of those 4 players that were SL120... either im stupid and don't get the calculator maths or your logical thinking or you're wrong. i still can't see how SL calculating like you are doing should be logical in this case, sry
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    Post by ZeGlobox Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:57 am

    Well.. I don't know...
    I've checked multiple times.. and each time, the XLS was spot on right.
    Maybe some of those guys didn't tell you their actual SL.. dunno.

    Anyway, last time I traded with a friend of mine (he used red soap to invade me), at the end of the trading, I let him killing me... I was SL204, he got exactly 32165 souls.. and the time I killed him, I also exactly got what the XLS says...
    And most of the time, when I kill invaders, I compute their SL, and send PMs saying " SL 120, right ? ".. and most reply "how did you know ?!?!" winking
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    Post by strangejoy Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:15 am

    O66 Jenova wrote:
    ZeGlobox wrote:There's absolutely no black magic here. The formula is indeed very simple :
    for killed hosts = 0.1 * number of souls to reach next SL

    i think you still didn't got my point... if the souls you gain really depends on the amount of souls you need to reach the next SL, theres no reason why i get a different soul amount from almost everyone that's SL 120... i always ask for SL's if it was a good fight to figure out some things, thats proven as well.

    i'm darkwraith, so if im invading it's always the host i get souls from. (minimum SL to invade is SL120 due to im SL120)(i fought 4 SL120's at kiln yesterday - i asked for their SL)


    your calculator says 0,1*92115 (thats the amount you need to level up to SL121) = 9211/9212 Souls.
    But this calculator is not proven since i got less AND more than 9211 Souls from each of those 4 players that were SL120... either im stupid and don't get the calculator maths or your logical thinking or you're wrong. i still can't see how SL calculating like you are doing should be logical in this case, sry

    I wonder if people are being honest about their SLs. As a darkwraith, you could be invading someone at SL140 who thought that the extra 20SL would give them an edge and is embarrassed to admit it.

    Anyway, there is no point in getting worked up about this. People here can test it with each other. I offered before with my SL 12 that previously had 1.5M souls, but I spent the souls on lightning bolts and twinkling tit. I'm sure there are others with either low SL and high souls or high SL and low souls that could provide empirical support for either the SL theory or the holding-on-to-souls theory. I wouldn't necessarily trust a random person that you just killed.
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    Post by O66 Jenova Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:50 am

    yeah... i mean... ZeGlobox's theory about SL seems pretty fitting the system of Dark Souls. and i'm not trying to offend you in any way. it's just that i've done PvP since release and i always had the feeling it just can't be the players SL that sets the amount of given souls at PvP due to this great variation of souls you get even if u kill the same SLs.

    i forgot to mention sth.: yesterday i got even less then 9211 Souls from 2 enemys i was invading. this would either mean Darkwraiths can invade lower SLs than their own or its something whole different.

    again - no offense! i would love to know if the Players SL is the reason for the amount of given souls, but i actually don't have the time to find out by myself at the moment.

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