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    Post by Jenova_X Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:55 am

    Sometimes I invade the forest and kill cat covenant invaders for the summoner. I gift them items and blackstone out. Thats always funny, lol!
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    Post by strangejoy Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:07 pm

    Jenova_X wrote:Sometimes I invade the forest and kill cat covenant invaders for the summoner. I gift them items and blackstone out. Thats always funny, lol!

    How many Jenovas are in this thread, lol? In other news, come to the forest and die! I was hanging around the forest all last night thinking that I would run into James_Hansen, but no luck. I only ran into two darkwraiths (killed both but died to the host -- kind of a waste, seeing as the host got their humanity).
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    Post by aceluby Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:50 pm

    ZeGlobox wrote:
    aceluby wrote:
    ZeGlobox wrote:The reason for that is very obvious :

    Killing a SL 100 host will earn around 6000 souls
    Killing a SL 100 blue invader will earn around 30000 ( 5 times !! )

    see ? winking

    I hope this is sarcasm... because you couldn't be more wrong.

    Sarcasm ?!?!

    Well... just make the calculation for yourself...
    When killing an invader earns 5 times more souls than killing a host.. that's a known fact...

    Check for yourself here :
    https://sites.google.com/site/darksoulstats/dark-souls-calculators/mini-calcs

    (that xl sheet uses the right formula.. I verified it quite intensively)
    Killing invaders is much more worthwhile than killing hosts, it's a fact.

    So please explain to me how "i couldn't be more wrong", I'm very interested !

    This is not how it works and yes, I've verified it. I have invaded hosts and received 1k souls as a SL120 which is impossible seeing as the lowest I can invade is 98. I've also received 10 million souls from an invader as a SL50 which I used to buy out all the shards I could. This would also be impossible using your calculation. Another point is in Kiln where most people are around SL120 I have received anywhere from 5k souls to over a million souls as a host. Again, this would be impossible using your calculation.
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    Post by strangejoy Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:59 pm

    aceluby wrote:
    ZeGlobox wrote:
    aceluby wrote:
    ZeGlobox wrote:The reason for that is very obvious :

    Killing a SL 100 host will earn around 6000 souls
    Killing a SL 100 blue invader will earn around 30000 ( 5 times !! )

    see ? winking

    I hope this is sarcasm... because you couldn't be more wrong.

    Sarcasm ?!?!

    Well... just make the calculation for yourself...
    When killing an invader earns 5 times more souls than killing a host.. that's a known fact...

    Check for yourself here :
    https://sites.google.com/site/darksoulstats/dark-souls-calculators/mini-calcs

    (that xl sheet uses the right formula.. I verified it quite intensively)
    Killing invaders is much more worthwhile than killing hosts, it's a fact.

    So please explain to me how "i couldn't be more wrong", I'm very interested !

    This is not how it works and yes, I've verified it. I have invaded hosts and received 1k souls as a SL120 which is impossible seeing as the lowest I can invade is 98. I've also received 10 million souls from an invader as a SL50 which I used to buy out all the shards I could. This would also be impossible using your calculation. Another point is in Kiln where most people are around SL120 I have received anywhere from 5k souls to over a million souls as a host. Again, this would be impossible using your calculation.

    I'm just not confident that hosts in the kiln are necessarily SL120. People are such jackasses about gaining whatever advantage they can get. I wouldn't be surprised if former head glitchers (SL700 or some such nonsense) were hanging around as human waiting to get invaded. The same is true of Darkmoons. Your 1K invasion story, however, is more puzzling.
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    Post by ZeGlobox Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:01 pm

    Again.. I'm not here to fight (I prefer to fight in Dark Souls winking )
    believe what you want... I originally thought that gains were related to how much souls the guy holds.. then I saw that Website with the calculator.. then tried and verified it.. So far, as I said, the XLS was always flawlessly spot-on !

    The real unknown thing is the invasion level-cap .. which is clearly not +/- 10% as I've read many times... I've invaded people with much lower level than me.. and was invaded by much higher.. not just 10%...
    I think this is the general rule, but it may have exceptions...

    So far, from what I know :

    Cat convenant : No level match whatsoever !

    While at level 140, I've been invaded by level 50 to level 300 .. completely sure about that
    Red Soap : I guess you can only invade from around -10%, but no high cap
    White Soap : -10 -> +10%
    Red Orb : I think it's the same than red Soap.. but not sure..
    Darkmoon : Not sure..
    Dragon : Not enough experience to tell...
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    Post by strangejoy Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:05 pm

    ZeGlobox wrote:Again.. I'm not here to fight (I prefer to fight in Dark Souls winking )
    believe what you want... I originally thought that gains were related to how much souls the guy holds.. then I saw that Website with the calculator.. then tried and verified it.. So far, as I said, the XLS was always flawlessly spot-on !

    The real unknown thing is the invasion level-cap .. which is clearly not +/- 10% as I've read many times... I've invaded people with much lower level than me.. and was invaded by much higher.. not just 10%...
    I think this is the general rule, but it may have exceptions...

    So far, from what I know :

    Cat convenant : No level match whatsoever !

    While at level 140, I've been invaded by level 50 to level 300 .. completely sure about that
    Red Soap : I guess you can only invade from around -10%, but no high cap
    White Soap : -10 -> +10%
    Red Orb : I think it's the same than red Soap.. but not sure..
    Darkmoon : Not sure..
    Dragon : Not enough experience to tell...

    I really don't think it's possible to invade lower levels in the forest covenent (e.g., SL300 invading SL140). I tried for hours to get invaded as an SL5 and and SL12 on multiple occassions and got nothing. As an SL75, I got a number of invasions, all of which seemed to be roughly my level or lower.
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    Post by aceluby Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:11 pm

    Even if kiln is not 120, the vast majority are around that level and should give me roughly the same number of souls almost every time. This just does not happen. I've also received 10 million souls in a fight that wasn't necessarily difficult at SL50 by someone who obviously used the dragon head glitch when it was available. Even if it was 1.5 million the amount of souls I received was over that of a SL712 character using the calc.
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    Post by strangejoy Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:24 pm

    aceluby wrote:Even if kiln is not 120, the vast majority are around that level and should give me roughly the same number of souls almost every time. This just does not happen. I've also received 10 million souls in a fight that wasn't necessarily difficult at SL50 by someone who obviously used the dragon head glitch when it was available. Even if it was 1.5 million the amount of souls I received was over that of a SL712 character using the calc.

    Yeah, I misread your 10M as 1M. I've also experienced variation, but I've never once received zero souls or almost zero souls from a host, which you would think would happen if souls carried were the determining factor.

    Perhaps the calculator is flawed, but I find it hard to beleive that souls carried is the sole or even primary determining factor. It would also seem to be an obvious game flaw, because people generally don't lose souls during pvp, so any pvp community should tend towards an ever increasing amount of won souls as the community evolves. That hasn't been my experience.
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    Post by Jenova_X Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:38 pm

    @strangejoy

    I was the 1st Jenova, joined the wiki back in October, lol. Figured I would just use my PSN I.D. for my name haha.
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    Post by theAnimus Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:43 pm

    So many Jenovas....
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    Post by Jenova_X Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:49 pm

    I should have used Grahf as my name, I bet no one would even know who that is lol big grin
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    Post by theAnimus Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:52 pm

    The Seeker of Power?
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    Post by Jenova_X Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:11 pm

    @theAnimus

    Nice I was hoping Xenogears wasnt forgetten by everyone. My favorite game of all time!
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    Post by theAnimus Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:13 pm

    I had a friend who was absolutely obsessed with that game. I never played it... just googled Grahf :farao:
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    Post by Jenova_X Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:16 pm

    Plot wise it is untouchable, I mean it is just mindblowing how in depth the story was. Too bad Xenosaga turned out to be garbage tho:cry: The Naruto series is about the only thing I have seen that can hold a candle to it plot wise imo.
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    Post by aceluby Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:20 pm

    I've received zero souls before in PvP while in Anor. I've also received 5k or less by numerous invaders in Kiln.
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    Post by strangejoy Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:24 pm

    The invaders are one thing. They can be really low level, so that would fit with the SL model. However, if you invaded a host with your SL120 and got zero souls, that would disprove the model.
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    Post by aceluby Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:35 pm

    You should never get zero souls according to this theory.
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    Post by strangejoy Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:40 pm

    aceluby wrote:You should never get zero souls according to this theory.

    As I understand it, you should get zero souls according to this theory if you're invaded by an SL1.
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    Post by deadagain Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:47 pm

    I'm confused now I retract my Ahh moment from earlier. sad
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    Post by strangejoy Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:50 pm

    I'm going to start a new thread devoted to empirical testing on soul's gained in pvp and invasion parameters.

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