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    Big DLC mistake (spoiler)

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    Post by sunbro Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:11 pm

    So I was thinking that FROM has made a big mistake with the dlc

    The thing is when you’re in the past and you don’t kill Artorias but warp back to firelink

    and continue the game normally nothing has changed.......

    The same applies for Manus do the whole DLC up til you reach Manus warp back and the abyss hasn’t spread

    You should have stopped the spread but you didn’t



    So what do you guys think?
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    Post by PRH2 Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:16 pm

    the way I understand it it's like an infinite time loop. by the dialog that say artorias gets the credit for destroying the abyss but in fact it was another,not necessarily you considered how time is distorted. just my opinion
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    Post by sunbro Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:22 pm

    PRH2 wrote:the way I understand it it's like an infinite time loop. by the dialog that say artorias gets the credit for destroying the abyss but in fact it was another,not necessarily you considered how time is distorted. just my opinion

    Yeah nut if Artorias didn' t kill him and you didn't then who did
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    Post by skarekrow13 Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:23 pm

    Maybe Chester does it if you don't. He gets tired of no one buying stuff and kicks some Manus butt....uh....hand.
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    Post by ICEFANG Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:28 pm

    Perhaps by the time that the fire has faded so, even these large events have no effect on the current time. Perhaps, in the total scheme of things, what you did was minimal and unimportant. I like what skarekrow said, or maybe, another player actually did it. Maybe IF someone beats it, when its your future.

    Perhaps, also, you can't really account for the butterfly effect in a game, if you want to get technical, you would have to modify the original game, for each step you took in the past, and heavily for even minor actions. You can't do that, even large game companies would be at a loss for it, its just too complex. FROM is small too, you can't say they should have done that.
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    Post by sunbro Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:31 pm

    I know but it would be awesome if you got back and the whole of Lordran was pitch black
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    Post by passivefamiliar Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:45 pm

    Consider this, you've gone back in time. But that doesn't mean its YOUR WORLD. Maybe the time travel is also a skip to someone else's world. So even if you change the past, its not YOUR past. But i like the idea here, i'd love it if more actions in the past changed the world we play in. I want more DLC.
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    Post by Anonymous Proxy Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:51 pm

    ICEFANG wrote:Perhaps by the time that the fire has faded so, even these large events have no effect on the current time. Perhaps, in the total scheme of things, what you did was minimal and unimportant. I like what skarekrow said, or maybe, another player actually did it. Maybe IF someone beats it, when its your future.

    Perhaps, also, you can't really account for the butterfly effect in a game, if you want to get technical, you would have to modify the original game, for each step you took in the past, and heavily for even minor actions. You can't do that, even large game companies would be at a loss for it, its just too complex. FROM is small too, you can't say they should have done that.

    Going a little bit off of what he said here about the Butterfly effect. The fact that something exists that should not in the atmosphere of the past will change the entire future and how stories are told. FROM heavily implies this with Dusk' super scent ability, apparently. -- But from before that, she never ever says anything about you other "o i has been saved and gracious"

    Another thing to note is how Miyazaki says, "They were just legends, just that." Meaning that there was technically no actual backstory; that the Abyss was ... I don't want to say "stopped" because we have the Four Kings and the Darkwraiths. But it reached a point after influence, that it didn't spread anymore.

    This is just speculation, of course. I'm a huge nerd about this stuff, which I can be wrong about, lol.

    edit: Sif's Boss Battle Room and Artorias' grave still makes no sense to me; I hate THAT mystery.
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    Post by skarekrow13 Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:54 pm

    I would enjoy more changes based on what happened in the past as well. Like Chrono Trigger's and Cross's 37 different endings, etc. I'm willing to not worry about it in this instance though. Essentially, the original story line is assumed to occur as it plays out with the DLC content being "set in stone" already. While I know that there are actually different things that could occur during a DLC playthrough I think the ideas above have it cold. You can certainly say "the hell with that guy" and essentially all it means is that neither Artorias nor you beat Manus. Since Elizabeth tells you "Thanks, too bad none of this is ever going into the history books" whatever happens in the DLC stays in the DLC. All you do is decide if you're in the paragraph that got omitted in The History of Lordran or not.
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    Post by steveswede Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:09 pm

    I don't know if your aware but eastern ideas of time travel are different to western ones. If any of you have watched the Cell Saga in Dragonball Z, Trunks time travels to the past and is with everyone when Cell is destroyed. Afterwards he time travels back to his time with his new power abilities and destroys Cell himself which is not only in the future but the events that happened in the past do not effect his time. In other words time is not linear and is what you would describe as a multiverse/string theory stuff. This also stops issues like the grandfather paradox and the butterfly effect changing the story.

    So in other words as Chester puts it "But to you and I, it's all ancient history. You have to ask yourself, does it really matter?"
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    Post by Somethodox Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:30 pm

    skarekrow13 wrote:Maybe Chester does it if you don't. He gets tired of no one buying stuff and kicks some Manus butt....uh....hand.
    Ha! With his swiping kick and a flurry of roses!

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    Post by bmurn Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:21 pm

    I think the infinite time loop is the key. You are assuming that the present should change because of something you did in the past. The key to me is you are also assuming that it should have changed based on you taking the action at this point in the present to travel to the past to destroy Artorios and Manus. What is to say you did not take that action at some point in the future to travel to the past to complete the necessary tasks, thus the present is as it should be. Conceptually, you cannot change the present through use of the past, because if you did the present would already be reflective of it. So, whatever action needs to happen in the past to make the present as it is has happened. Either when you did it now, in the future or in the past.

    So, in summary and in closing, the past has happened, the present is happening and the future will happen, unless you go to the past to change the then future which is really the present, in the then present which is really the past or you wait until the future, which is the then present to travel to the past which is before the current present which is still the then past to take the actions which results in the present which is really the past to the future which is the present to be as you see it in the present which is really now. Remember, today is yesterday's tomorrow and you need to reach 88 miles per hour in order to time travel.
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    Post by BartholomewWenceslas Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:04 pm

    The way I see it is that the events in the DLC happened hundreds of years ago, so theoretically you would have beaten all the bosses eventually, and if not you, then probably any of the other perfectly competent people
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    Post by chaosrave Thu Nov 08, 2012 11:01 pm

    thing is that it doesnt matter what order you do anything in dark souls because time is distorted and its how you can go back in time and relive the defeat of artorias and manus... so lore wise its not a mistake... with the time distortion thing they can do w/e they want lol

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