My experience in the forest... as a host

A lot of people complain about forest hunters being as cheap as the gankers they hunt, so I decided to check it out for myself. I went in with a level 60 toon(post Anor Londo). I'd try to kill the npc's as fast as I could, but a fog gate would go up instantly and an invader would get there by the time I was at the bandit.

Out of about 50 matches most where pretty decent. Only one person attacked me while I killed Npc's, only two ran to hide(but they might have been looking for me in mushroom area. Only 3 pairs ganged up on me, one of them being one of the guys that hid and another involved a DW. About 15 of them were spell spammers, and most were the same people so it was about 5 or 4. There were like 3 backstab fishers. And only like 4 used rude gestures after winning, two of them were spell spammers.

On the other hand, no one tried to lead me to the trents or cats which were all left alive. No one led me to the water-fall to Wogg me. No one sent me hatemail. There were about 10 AFK's (it was the same guy like 5 times) who I could have left alive if I wished to prevent ganbangs. Repeat invaders tended to bow after the first invasion, regardless of who won. I actually managed to convince a guy who was going to attack me in the middle of duel to back off, simply by pointing at him and waving. Most invasions tended to be far enough apart for me to fight one on 1 for a while, they usually took 3-5 minutes. There were only like 2 consecutive invasions in a row, and one of them involved an AFK.

So I either had really good luck, others have really bad luck, or people are lying when they say Forest Hunters are just as bad as gankers. At the very least, there was nothing that I wouldn't expect in other areas. Not to mention, the area is completely avoidable.

I think the difference is organization. The gankers are organized, the Hunters are disorganized.

I actullay did just this two days ag when I had a 69 and all I can say is that it's very different from you Sloth. Most of what I had were 1v1 turned to 2v1 and a strange ffa with a forest hunter and a dw. One guy fakes being AFK till help comes to him (which did not work right). I notice that some of these ganking tactics seem underplanned and did not go right compared to others I faced. Though only two tried to use fire storm on that bridge. Though unlike you the repeats tried the same thing over and over again.

Maybe it's the system or just a bad day, for them since my new build seems very capable to face these guys.

WhatDoesThePendantDo? wrote:I think the difference is organization. The gankers are organized, the Hunters are disorganized.

There's definetly no shortage of summons, and I know for a fcat that most of them know what they're there for. I actually considered summoning a guy so he could guard me from ganks, but it felt unnecessary. Definitely not the same thing as waiting for a fellow forest hunter who might not show up.

Soris: H'mm, well I plan to keep hosting for a few more days and see if anything changes. I get the feeling that there were lots of failed invasions, so that might have something to do with it. The fog wall would not come down until I died, even if no one showed up for like 5 minutes, I was running gauntlets lol

My streak is 11 BTW, though I'm sure nobody cares

Careful Sloth some smart one do that falling into the basin and backtrack to the fog gate trapping you there.

lol, I'd rather suicide than have them waste my time. I stuck by the entrance so I wouldn't risk losing souls on the return trip anyway.

One thing I did notice was that FH's tend to spam spells more often than gankers I've run into before, or at least more often than I did/could, but I think that it's because they would restock regardless of failure or success, while I had to wait till the fog came down... or died, so I'd have to ration them out.

I may have spoken too soon, I just got ganked 5 times in a row. Somehow my connection seems to have improved dramatically, and I've been getting invasion one after another from the same spawn point too. Sometimes the system won't even warn me about the second guy

2 of them were by the same person though, I guess that just goes to show that gankers can be any color.

Yeah, pretty much there are bad apples in every group, it just depends on how they go about it. As a host, I notice invaders tend to not taunt after killing you. While as an invader, personally I see more hosts and summons taunt. That's the only difference I've personally seen, but it's a pretty big one in my book.

Whenever I FH, I only taunt repeat offenders who've taunted me themselves. As long as they don't start throwing out "well what is it", "look skyward", and "point down", I'll still have some respect for most gankers, however little it may be...

In the past 5 days, I almost stayed 100% in the forest.
As host, I'd say that 80% of double invasions turned into unfair 2v1. The 20% remaining were either 1v1vafk (I wait for the afk player till the second invasion notification, then kill him), 1v1 + a palyer waiting for the fight to end (there where very few of these, but these were pretty nice ones).
Some of these ended with me falling of a cliff... Seems like spinning and spinning around continuously is bad for my orientation
The remaining were either "bad" 1v1 (rarely with any on the hunter side), with R1 mashing, spells spaming. A very few were good interesting 1v1.
When I got tired of it, I just killed Sif and changed side (as a DW, not a hunter).
As a DW, I'd say I encountered about 30% gankers, most of them around SL200-300.
The remaining were simple or double invasions. Most of simple ones were nice and loyal, often with on both sides. Double ones were either 1v1v1player waiting. Or good 1v1 vs a hunter joining the fight, rushing on the host, interrupting our 1v1. In those case, I sided with the host against the hunter (well, when the host understood my intentions ...) to resume the 1v1 afterward.

In conclusion :
- Non Ganking hosts where generaly nice. Other were.... ganking.
- Invader were slightly better IMO, except for ones going for unfair 2v1.
- Fighting in the forest is not realy interesting, players generaly seems to be not as skilled as in other pvp areas, there are some good player though (saying it as an average+ pvper)

In conclusion of the conclusion :
- My post is useless , it's just as everyone already said.

I've hosted and invaded in the Forest a near equal amount, and this is what I've noticed:

Hosts are, of course, more likely to gank. Invaders do gank, but it's a surprise when you invade a lone host who isn't trying to summon a phantom, while I think it's close to a 50-50 chance for an imvader to gank.

Hosts are over-levelled more often than Invaders. Most hosts I invade are SL380 or higher, with some lone SL100-120 looking for duels thrown in there. There are higher levelled invaders as well, but it's not uncommon for me to be invaded by someone below SL 50 when hosting in the Forest.

Forest Hunters are more skilled than hosts. This is an honest observation I've made. It may have something to do with the Xbox streamers and that we have a lot of good players that only want to Forest Hunt, but they are sometimes leagues away from gankers in skill. The FH do have their R1 spammers, BS fishers, and healers though. When I hosted for a while, it made me realize why when I got a 2v2 while invading, the odds were either completely in my favor or completely in the gankers' favor. My fellow FH was either very good or very bad.

it strikes me that the forest is a war of attrition, where the last one standing is not usually the hero.

i've found that most gankers in the forest were somewhere between SL40 and SL120, probably looking to get some souls or just for the fun it. while the forest hunters tend to be low soul level and under equipped, probably looking to get access to the Shiva and/or the fog ring. there are exception of course, but generally i think this is true.

i've hosted in the forest using my SL130 Abysswalker build (dark hand shield, abyss sword, poison and toxin pyromancies). most of the time i can plow through several invasions before a dedicated high level hunter shows up and cleans my clock. these high level hunters are probably looking for gankers but they have no compunctions about ganking solo hosts if they get the chance. they also use emotes like "point down" while the low level hunters don't.

in the opposite, i have a +3 forest hunter that is SL120 (velka's rapier, compound bow) that does pretty well in the forest. i try to kill everyone i meet as fast as possible, focusing on phantoms first then the host. if i see someone soloing, i'll agro right away. i will gank the host if they are fighting a fellow hunter who is obviously underequiped for the task, otherwise i'll back off if the fight seems even.

if i beat a ganker (not often) in either case, i give their fallen corpse my back and moon them with a "proper bow".

I have strict guidelines when hosting in the forest.

1) Keep the Black Crystal in my quick select at all times.

2) Never gank. Resummon an honorable dueler.

3) Bow first, attack second.

4) Always make prism stone happy faces.

5) I never give chase.

6) Soul level 100-120

7) In an honorable 2vs2 scenario after one person falls, anything goes.

Most, not always, but most of the time a forest hunter is ready for getting ganked. If I have a phantom that gives way to the "no holds barred" type of mentality, then I won't hold it against them. And I don't expect them to hold it against me when I black crystal them and don't summon them again.

Try not to hold it against a forest invader for ganking you the first time. Its their mindset. If you practice sending home jumpers, you'd be suprised what forest hunters will leave you as gifts. Most high level forest hunters are "build completed" and looking for 2vs2 pvp that they cant get from waiting 20 minutes in the arena. They will be grateful to you for helping contribute to that type of experience.

It takes awhile to get going, but after awhile, you will evntually meet catbros that see what you're doing and reward you with gifts for your chivalry, or give you a 2vs2 dueling scenario you can feel good about and learn something from.

So in end, thank you catbros for all the slabs and gifts I've recieved over the past year. Aaaaand sorry about all the killing and stuff, you're still my sworn enemies lol.

As soon as I run into a nonganking host, I back off and see what they want. If they want 1v1, then we go at it. If they want 2v2, then I wait. It does take me some time to trust a host as nonganking, due to the elaborate traps that hosts set up.

I always bow after fights, no matter what.

I will also let questers, who make a run for Sif, go without a fight. I'm not there to invade questers. I'm there to invade gankers. But, I do like an occasional honorable fight.

I've done way more invading than hosting but I think I wouldn't add anything to the observations. There's a lotta bad blues out there too but since it's a less reliable way to gank, it's as Pendant said. I can add to the conversation that I always give lone hosts a duel. When another blue comes in I often either try to end it before they get there or back off and see what happens. If they run in to gang up I back out. For ganking hosts I readily admit I hate crime them with my Skarekrow Tree Descendant gang.

As for gestures, you always get a bow unless you gank. Then I do "point forward" over their corpse. AKA, "Get outta my woods!"

I wave to every invader. 95% of them wave or bow back. There are also the guys that rush me with Drake Swords and backstab but they are harmless.

Two days and 80 humanity later, I have to a conclusion; it is better to be a forest hunter than a host, forest hunting doesn't kill you're humaity reserves As for who ganks more, hosts do. I'd say 90 percent of hosts in the forest gank. While on the FH side it's about 50/50. That might have to do the failed invasion rate, but I definetly get the feeling that there's more FH's willing to go it alone than hosts. I did eventually summon someone to help keep the fights as close to 1on1 as possible, and most invaders would still charge right at us instead of waiting for reinforcements.

I also noticed a severe lack in Dark Wraiths, only about 10 out of about 150+ matches were DW's. It made keeping the humanity meter above 0 a real pain

Xero wrote:I wave to every invader. 95% of them wave or bow back. There are also the guys that rush me with Drake Swords and backstab but they are harmless.

I normally do wave if they're at a distance. I don't trust first time invader who bow though. They would usually bow... and then smack me in the face as I bowed back :evil:

This one gank in particular sticks out in my mind.

Me and an invader were screwing around spamming gestures and stuff at each other, when another FH showed up. I assumed the first guy would let me do 1v1 against the other guy so I charged at him and started attacking, and then out of nowhere the first guy backtabbed me. While I was still on the ground, the other guy did the "well what was it" gesture. I'm not sure why, but the guy that backstabbed me back-stepped giving me a chance to kill the other guy who was still stuck in the animation. He then killed me right after that and just walked away.


I thought the whole thing was pretty funny actually.

I know that if I see a host and a phantom, I pretty much just have it click in my mind "Gankers." So I don't wait to one on one the phantom, and just attack them both right away. You learn that one of the best ways to deal with gankers it is to be far more aggressive than they could ever hope to be haha.

^My general thought process, even when the host is alone
Seriously though, getting backstabbed by a phantom wearing the ring of fog, when you thought you've finally found an honorable dueler in the forest, can be a bit disheartening. then again, who actually expects an honorable duel in the forest in the first place?

I think Gankers tend to be pretty aggressive actually, when they're not backstab fishing, but there's just something about having someone to back them up that makes them sloppier than usual. Plus they have no compunctions about healing so most don't even bother to dodge or block, at least not until they're already half dead, just good ol' R1 spamming.

Well what I mean by aggression is, if the three of them are waiting at the bottom of the stairs for me to spawn, buffing weapons etc. I just go for a plunging attack, then a parry to whoever comes next. No hesitation, they often expect people to be overly cautious when fighting three players. So they often have no way to actually deal with someone who never lets up. If i have 10 hp, I won't back down and I'll just keep attacking until someone dies. There have been so many times where I've killed a group with only x<100 health left.

I also have a classic trick for Fog's Ring gankers, you should look at For the Glory of Alvina.

I have a lvl 22 Sunbro warrior who I host with, in the Forest, when I need a break from being a helper. I feel it gives the low lvl hunters an opportunity to get that fog ring and I have fun. I'm surprised, but I do get a steady stream of invaders. Rarely does the fog gate ever have a chance to drop. I don't use any magic, so I can stay at it as long as my estas holds out and my sword arm keeps me alive.

Every time you hear my death scream, another low lvl hunter has earned his fog ring.

Kirk-Barb wrote:...Every time you hear my death scream, another low lvl hunter has earned his fog ring...

This is going in the quotes of the day.

I just hosted in the forest and my experience couldn't be more different. I'm not surprised at all we had different outlooks on who was worse in the forest, Sloth. I had multiple invaders who used chameleon & fog ring to hide and when discovered would run & hide again. That's in addition to the usual 2v1 and using the environment.

One was particularly annoying; he tried to hit me with ranged magic then ran away when I attempted to engage, turned back and cast more magic. We did this dance for a couple of minutes until I really hurt him, he sprinted toward Alvina -- surely disappointed that I had killed all the NPCs. I was not about to chase, though -- he had enough of a head start he was going to be able to heal, anyway. After I got invaded again, he showed up and took pot shots from a distance as I killed the invader and quickly disappeared into the forest again. After I while I decided I'd had enough and summoned a phantom to help me track him down I had yet to kill the trees & mushrooms and wanted to avoid a comprimising situation if someone else invaded.

A lot of times I'll just log out if someone runs away. But, this guy was really annoying and honestly not a threat (I'm sure my SL was way higher than his) and I was just determined to kill this little gnat. The phantom and I killed 3, 4, 5... invaders (sorry for the inadvertent ganking -- we did get some interesting 2v2, though!) and still the same story, snipe, run, disappear. The reason I was in the forest to test out a new setup and play style, but swapped out the heavy stuff for my normal fast roll gear so I could chase him down if I got the chance.

Finally my phantom dies to a guy who spawned at the boss gate & appeared to be one of the out to lunch farmers, but came to life when we approached the bridge spamming soul spear. Ok, were ganking (not intentionally for my part), but he's just trying to farm without doing anything if possible or catching people off guard when they can't dodge. I waited to see if my phantom would reset. I think I killed off another invader or two & finally summoned another. The whole time I was unable to summon a 3rd (I would have split up in search & destroy mission), but I'm pretty sure I had 3 invaders at least once.

After close to an hour and a half, he gets a little too close & I give chase from between the steps near the bonfire & the spawn point in the middle of the trees. He runs to and across the bridge, to the now dead mushroom parents (nice try -- I took them out after the last guy used them to waste humanity & get backstabbed more before he died*), starts running around through trees and finally is starting to pull away from me. I follow him of a ledge when I'm sure I won't give him a double death and he dies out of nowhere... ???? When I reorient my camera, I see 32 next to his body! A fall that didn't hurt me killed him because he never healed this whole frickin' time! He must have been a very stubborn low-level player with no humanity.

I didn't even mention the annoying lagstab fishers who I could deal with if the didn't also use front stabs. And I seem to get taunted a lot more. Like the I got one time when I finished off a second guy in what was a 2v1 right after getting invaded again and got 1-shot BSed before I could heal. No question the gankers do it more, but I expect it from them. I don't know why someone who invades and is gifted someone else's sloppy seconds would taunt.

*I wouldn't gloat so much over a 2v1, but he ran and my phantom couldn't keep up so that kill was actually a 1v1+mushroom parents

The place is hell man

One thing I did notice was that the people on the same server tended to behave similarly. It seems the first day(when, I first wrote this) I ended up with a lot of people who were willing to duel me "honorably". The next day I just got ganked over and over. quitting to the menu would usually change my experiences in the fores however. I'm not really sure how to describe it.