Sunlight Spear

Hadiho,

I pretty new so please bear with me for a second =)

I'm standing before Gwyn. Now I read, that I should do everything i want to do in this first Mode of the Game, before facing Gwyn and going into NG. Now the only thing I'm missing is the Sunlight Spear, for which i would need the "Soul of Gwyn, Lord of Cinder" drop from Gwyn himself. Now will i be able to return to Sunbro-Shrine after defeating Gwyn, or do i have to wait til i arrive at the Shrine in the NG, to get the Miracle? Also: will i be able to get the miracle, before i meet the requ. of 50 faith? (still some levels short) - and I'm Warrior of Sunlight Rank 1, but i guess thats enough (?)

Thanks in advance.
-NewbLadro

As soon as you beat Gwyn you go to NG+. So obviously anything that requires Gwyn's Soul you'll need to obtain in NG+! If you've already ranked up in the covenant, though, I'd recommend not joining any other covenant once you're in NG+ until you've reached the altar again (I don't see why you would, but just thought I'd mention it) since you'll lose your covenant rank. If you don't have 50 Fth, you'll still get the miracle, you just won't be able to use it.

Welcome to the forums!

Hey,

thanks for nice and fast answer! - So well, looks like I gotta wait. I guess I'll be able to live with that. =)

If you have very high faith, and the darkmoon talisman, lesser lightning miracles would probably be more useful, because there wouldn't be a big difference in damage (something like 100HP), and you have a lot more casts.

These are my stats/items atm:

http://mugenmonkey.com/darksouls/?b=d2FuZGVyZXIsMjAsMTIsMjAsMjQsMTksMTIsMjAsMzAsMCwxOSwxOSw0Nyw1MCwzLDMxLDE1MywzMSwxMzAsMTA3LG5vcm1hbCxub3JtYWwsbm9ybWFsLG5vcm1hbCwwLDAsMCwwLDAsMCwwLDAsMCwwLDAsMCwwLDQsd29vZGVuLHdvb2Rlbix3b29kZW4sZmVhdGhlciwxLDAsMA==

Right now i got the Great Lighning Spear miracle, but the wikia says, the Sunlight Spear would deal over 200dmg more (with Ring of the Suns Firstborn, on a random undead in the burg). So am I mistaken, when i see the miracle-upgrade and the +20 faith investment from my now 30 faith to the required 50 as justified?
The alternative is just start pumping into Dexterity, for GSoA and Pharis DMG.
And how/why would the Darkmoon Talisman help me?

Ladro wrote:
And how/why would the Darkmoon Talisman help me?

The Darkmoon Hankerchief has a hell of a magic adjust, it really gives you a noticeable boost in your miracle power compared to say, the canvas talisman. Definitely a must have for a Faith build I'd say.

So IF I decide to go the Faith-Build, I would have to complete the Game, invest 20 more Faith for the Sunlight Spear and then I would have to switch convenants to get the Darkmoon talisman.

Hm. Since I don't really have any experience I wanna ask: is this worth it? Is
-the Sunlight Spear (and it's dmg, considering its usefulness in NG+),
-the 20 levels I would have to invest in Faith and
-the switch to the Darkmoon convenant

more worth the effort/more effective/usefull then
-investing some more Levels (like 5) in Vitality,
-investing the rest in Dex for GSoA/Pharis DMG and
-using the lesser miracle Great Lighning Spear.

also: is the Ring of the Suns Firstborn also a must for the Faith version? Cause then I would have to drop Havels ring... which in turn would knock back my Defense quite a bit, and i dont want to get over 50% equip load.

It depends on your playstyle, but a faith build is a very viable build. I'm currently running a Paladin style faith build and I completed NG with the Darkmoon talisman but I only ever use great lightning spear, haven't gotten the Sunlight spear yet. I rarely use Ring of the Sun's Firstborn but the damage increase is phenomenal, handy for when you CAN cast your miracles and you need some oomph.

I'd advise against GSoA, the points you need to ultimately wield it aren't worth it in terms of damage compared to other weapons like a Divine/Occult Bastard, or even str weapons if you have a lot more strength.

30 faith is a good place to stay, but if you want the Sunlight spear go for it. Just remember that leaving or breaking the covenant means more work getting to where you wanna be(+1 Sunlight Warrior).

densetsushun wrote:It depends on your playstyle, but a faith build is a very viable build. I'm currently running a Paladin style faith build and I completed NG with the Darkmoon talisman but I only ever use great lightning spear, haven't gotten the Sunlight spear yet. I rarely use Ring of the Sun's Firstborn but the damage increase is phenomenal, handy for when you CAN cast your miracles and you need some oomph.

I think i understand you. I guess I'll stay with the 30 Faith then, get the Talisman and maybe a third miracle like Wrath of Gods, to get the most out of my allready invested Levels.

densetsushun wrote:30 faith is a good place to stay, but if you want the Sunlight spear go for it. Just remember that leaving or breaking the covenant means more work getting to where you wanna be(+1 Sunlight Warrior).

What do you mean with "means more work getting to where you wanna be"? Shouldnt I just be able to leave the Sunbros and join Darkmoon for the Talisman?

Big thanks for your assitance here btw, it's helping me alot. I dont wanna re-roll after 30 hours again (which also means, that I'm probably gonna stay with GSoA) =)

Ladro wrote:
What do you mean with "means more work getting to where you wanna be"? Shouldnt I just be able to leave the Sunbros and join Darkmoon for the Talisman?

When you leave the covenant and come back to it you have to work on obtaining the rank again, I think if you break the covenant you need to put more work into achieving that rank.

Ladro wrote:
Big thanks for your assitance here btw, it's helping me alot. I dont wanna re-roll after 30 hours again (which also means, that I'm probably gonna stay with GSoA) =)

Don't get me wrong, GSoA is a great weapon and the damage difference is miniscule, so definitely stick to getting that It's just that if you didn't invest in dex/int it certainly wouldn't have been worth it to invest in those just for that sword, as you can get better ones.

The Sunlight Spear is not worth it's 2 slots, you can as well use them to have 20 casts of GLS, instead of 5 sunlight spears. SS also takes longer to cast with your low dex

However, it does have bonus knockback.

Hachouma wrote:The Sunlight Spear is not worth it's 2 slots, you can as well use them to have 20 casts of GLS, instead of 5 sunlight spears. SS also takes longer to cast with your low dex

However, it does have bonus knockback.

Oh wow, I didnt even realize the Slot/Chrage Situation with the Sunlight-Spear. I guess the knockback alone isnt worth the effort.

About those 20 casts of GLS: i read, that it's possible to have more then one version of the Miracle and use both for more charges - and I guess that's what u'r talking about here. But how would i get the second Great Lighning Spear Miracle?

densetsushun wrote:
When you leave the covenant and come back to it you have to work on obtaining the rank again, I think if you break the covenant you need to put more work into achieving that rank.

If I leave the Warrior of Sunlight, go to Darkmoon for the Talisman and then go back to the Sunbros:
- will I lose any of my miracles when leaving?
- and if the answer is no: is there any point in getting the +1 again? Since the only reward for the +1 is the Greater Lighning Spear.


EDIT:
Also I just noticed, that if i killed Dark Sun Gwyndolin (which I did) I wont be able to join the Darkmoon for this playthrough, is that right? So i would have to wait til i get to Anor Lordo in NG+ correct?

EDIT 2:
just found this list here:
http://darksoulswiki.wikispaces.com/Faith-Int+Talisman+Magic+Adjustment+Values

So if I stay on 30 Faith, shouldnt i get the Canvas Talisman instead of the Darkmoon Talisman?

BLA1NE wrote:If you've already ranked up in the covenant, though, I'd recommend not joining any other covenant once you're in NG+ until you've reached the altar again (I don't see why you would, but just thought I'd mention it) since you'll lose your covenant rank.

Pretty sure that's not true. I've left covenants & rejoined them & always kept the old rank.

Ladro wrote:

densetsushun wrote:It depends on your playstyle, but a faith build is a very viable build. I'm currently running a Paladin style faith build and I completed NG with the Darkmoon talisman but I only ever use great lightning spear, haven't gotten the Sunlight spear yet. I rarely use Ring of the Sun's Firstborn but the damage increase is phenomenal, handy for when you CAN cast your miracles and you need some oomph.

I think i understand you. I guess I'll stay with the 30 Faith then, get the Talisman and maybe a third miracle like Wrath of Gods, to get the most out of my allready invested Levels.

The Darkmoon talisman is only stronger than the others if you have above 40 Faith. At 30 Faith the Canvas is the strongest talisman. Also, you can't get everything in NG because boss souls make multiple weapons soyou need to go to NG++ and kill the bosses again to get everything in the game.

A few quick things.....

You cannot get multiple copies of the lightning spear miracles.

Practice throwing them unlocked.

If you are not capping your build the sunlight spear is definitely worth the 50 Faith and 2 slots. It is difficult to get used to actually hitting your opponents so when you do you want it to be worth it! The knockback/down effect alone is worth it.

Ladro wrote:
If I leave the Warrior of Sunlight, go to Darkmoon for the Talisman and then go back to the Sunbros:
- will I lose any of my miracles when leaving?
- and if the answer is no: is there any point in getting the +1 again? Since the only reward for the +1 is the Greater Lighning Spear.


EDIT:
Also I just noticed, that if i killed Dark Sun Gwyndolin (which I did) I wont be able to join the Darkmoon for this playthrough, is that right? So i would have to wait til i get to Anor Lordo in NG+ correct?

EDIT 2:
just found this list here:
http://darksoulswiki.wikispaces.com/Faith-Int+Talisman+Magic+Adjustment+Values

So if I stay on 30 Faith, shouldnt i get the Canvas Talisman instead of the Darkmoon Talisman?

Ah, seems I was wrong about the talisman and faith, you should definitely stick to Canvas.

As for the covenant thing, if you leave Sunbros you won't lose your miracles or the ability to use them(save for Sunlight Spear, which you need to be in Sunlight Cov to use), and when you rejoin you'd have to work your way back up again. By the way, I think if you don't properly leave your covenant through Oswald you need even more than usual to level up the covenant(so more than just 10 sunlight medals to get to +1).

Considering the Canvas Talisman being better for your capped build, I suggest staying with the Sunlight Covenant unless you wanna invade as a Darkmoon.

As others have said, it's worth the wait. Put on the First Born's ring and get ready to light some badguys up. I have been using it in PVP lately and it can be used, very effectively especially in tight corridors.

Allrighty.

For now I decided to stick with 30 faith, get the Canvas and start pushing dexterity for GSoA/Pharis DMG. The only reason why I'm maybe still drawn to the Sunspear, is it's knockback. But well.. one can't have it all =)

As for the PVP use of the spear: I'm gonna stick to PVE with this build. I'm looking forward to NG+ and more Co-Op.

Thank you all for your kind and fast answers. As said I'm new to DS but I'll definatly gonna stick around (the game and the forum)^^