Wolf vs Havels

I've been thinking this for awhile, so I thought of bringing it here and see what other people thought. I have two different characters; one that uses havels for more weight and use some heavier armour, and another that uses wolf for more poise. Now each may have they're own upside but I wanna see what other people thought on this. I see that wolfs while it does give more poise but less armour, where as havels allows you to have more armour but less poise. I have also noticed that I roll slower with havels I'm not really sure why that is, since I thought roll speed was about the percentage not the actual armour (yes I have less than 25% weight on both characters).

There's like 8 "different" fast roll speeds. Seems difficult to believe but there does exist footage.

Ya I knew there was different roll speeds but I thought they were all percentage not by actual weight, or armour.

Depends on the poise breakpoint and roll speed you are aiming to. If you can meet both with Havel's then it's better because of higher defense. I usually run Wolf+FAP though.

Does anyone have a link to a good video on the roll break downs so I can understand all 8.

In my opinion Wolf is always better than Havel's unless your just trying to carry more firepower instead of poise.

Yeah you got the defense vs. poise thing right as a general rule. IMO Havel's is worth taking if you have a lot of spare stat points and can easily reach 50 or so vitality while still getting the endurance to reach your desired poise breakpoint. Meanwhile Wolf is better if you're strained for stat points and can't really spare the points in endurance to hit a higher breakpoint.

Also there are I think 14 different roll speeds and they are based on the percentage of your carry weight.

Ya that video didn't really help explain why one of my character rolls slower than the other since they both sit at 24.9% of equipment load and I see a visible difference in roll speed.

Yeah you got the defense vs. poise thing right as a general rule. IMO Havel's is worth taking if you have a lot of spare stat points and can easily reach 50 or so vitality while still getting the endurance to reach your desired poise breakpoint. Meanwhile Wolf is better if you're strained for stat points and can't really spare the points in endurance to hit a higher breakpoint.

I definitely agree with this and that was kinda how I built the two characters, since one is a mage and the other is a quality. I mainly just wanted to see if it was really worth dropping either ring for more of a uniform decision but it seems its just comes down to how the character was built in the beginning.

I'd love to know how the principles in that video effect DWGR. Both in speed and i-frames.

DWGR has 14 i-frames and 8 recovery frames at 25% roll speed. For each step down, you have one less recovery frame. So at 16.7%, DWGR has 14/7. Then 14/6 at 8.3% and finally 14/5 at 0%. Fast Roll is the same, but starts as 12/12 and gets down to 12/9. Mid-roll IIRC is 12/20 through 12/18. There's no mid-roll equivalent to 0%, so it only has 3 values instead of 4. Don't know about fat roll.

Saturday-Saint wrote:DWGR has 14 i-frames and 8 recovery frames at 25% roll speed. For each step down, you have one less recovery frame. So at 16.7%, DWGR has 14/7. Then 14/6 at 8.3% and finally 14/5 at 0%. Fast Roll is the same, but starts as 12/12 and gets down to 12/9. Mid-roll IIRC is 12/20 through 12/18. There's no mid-roll equivalent to 0%, so it only has 3 values instead of 4. Don't know about fat roll.

thnx

Using Havel's Ring to wear heavy armor to get high Poise has one downside and that is the slower Stamina recovery. Heavy armor makes Stamina recovery slower. The amount of recovery speed decrease depends on the selected armor. You can see mugen for further references on each armor parts recovery penalty. So if I can achieve the same Poise with Wolf Ring, it's better to use that imo, because my Stamina will recover at it's natural rate.

In my experience with both the rings on my strength build, it depends on what weapons you want to use. Sometimes you'll need Havel's in order to get your desired weapon and acceptable poise, because without it, you could have as little as 3 points of weight to put into armor, which is just dreadful.
For me, Havel's gets use when I want to fast roll with my 14 weight+ weapons, and I usually get 31 or so poise, but when I use my handaxe demon's spear combo, the Wolf Ring is much more suitable, ending me up with 56 poise.

yesterday while streaming I ended up selecting Wolf Ring over Havels despite how it caused me to medium roll.

Sentiel wrote:Using Havel's Ring to wear heavy armor to get high Poise has one downside and that is the slower Stamina recovery. Heavy armor makes Stamina recovery slower. The amount of recovery speed decrease depends on the selected armor. You can see mugen for further references on each armor parts recovery penalty. So if I can achieve the same Poise with Wolf Ring, it's better to use that imo, because my Stamina will recover at it's natural rate.

Senty what's poise breakpoint?

Go literate...do not one sentence answer me...

ChillerHR wrote:Senty what's poise breakpoint?

Go literate...do not one sentence answer me...

Poise Break Points
Please note that some weapons do not obey this. E.g. the hand axe does not break 21 poise.
It has been found that certain weapon classes will stun people at very specific poise amounts. For example Ultra Greatswords, when used 2 handed, will stun anyone at 75 poise or less. So a poise of 76 will prevent you being stunlocked by a hit from an UGS. However these values will only save you from 1 hit. If you are hit again before your "poise bar" empties completely you will be stunned. The values listed are for 2 handed attacks, the values in the brackets refer to 1 handed attacks.

76 poise (51 for 1-handed resists):
All Ultra Greatswords 2h R1s
All Great Axes 2h R1s
All Great Blunt 2h R1s

53 poise (36 for 1-handed resists):
All Curved Greatsword 2h R1s
All Greatswords 2h R1s
All 1-handed Blunts 2h R1s
All 1-handed Axes 2h R1s

45 poise
Black Knight Halberd 2h R1 (confirmed by Devokai)

31 poise (21 for 1-handed resists or fist weapons (confirmed)):
All Asian Sword 2h R1s (and R2 in the case of Shotel)
All 1-handed Sword 2h R1s
All Katana 2h R1s (including Washing Pole)
All Great Scythe 2h R1/R2s
All Whip 2h R1s
All Large Spear (Partisan/Pike) 2h R1s
All Small Spear (Silver Spear/Winged Spear) 2h R1s
All Halberd/Pole 2h R1s (figured this would have been 53, but it wasn't). (Black Knight Halberd 1h R1, confirmed by Devokai)

8 poise (6 poise for 1-hand resists)
All Rapier 2h R1s

Source:
http://darksoulswiki.wikispaces.com/Poise

Poise Breakpoint are magic numbers in PvP that make you not get stunned.
They are 5, 11, 17, 31, 36, 53, 56, and 77.

These are numbers numbers where particular weapons won't stun you. The most popular being 53 for two handed greatsword and curved greatsword swings.

61 is also a poise breakpoint for Black Combustion.

Rynn

There's another Poise breakpoint.
62.

It's what I currently use in order to tank Black Flame.
Some claim it dels 60 Poise damage while some say it does 61 Poise. So I pack 62 just to be safe.

Once people will settle on one of the numbers for Black Flame Poise damage I guess that it will get vastly used as the most popular Poise Breakpoint.

Sentiel wrote:Rynn

There's another Poise breakpoint.
62.

It's what I currently use in order to tank Black Flame.
Some claim it dels 60 Poise damage while some say it does 61 Poise. So I pack 62 just to be safe.

Once people will settle on one of the numbers for Black Flame Poise damage I guess that it will get vastly used as the most popular Poise Breakpoint.

It already is used by gankers.

Tnx guys!

I use both wolf and havels for a whoping 161 poise! It's not very practical, but it's great when your doing nothing but spaming Dark Hand. Once I drained the host 4 times in a row before dying. I sent him a message asking who won.

Thanks everyone for you input especially for the poise breakdown. I definitely see a bigger difference between wolf and havel.