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    Super Ornstein is Smough possessing Ornstein's body?

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    Post by Derpwraith Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:43 am

    We all know that when Smough is killed first during the battle in Anor Londo, Ornstein appears before his corpse and expands to his size. But for me, I honestly think its more than that.

    Smough laughs during the battle occasionally, though it may be quiet, it is a distorted version of the Fat Official's laugh from Demon's Souls. When I was facing Super Ornstein, I realized that you can still hear Smough's laugh. So I was thinking, did Ornstein transfer Smough's soul into his body? It would make sense because Super Ornstein performs one of Smough's attacks.

    We know that Smough had always wanted to be one of Gwyn's best knights, So did Ornstein allow Smough to take control of his body so that he can become the knight he had always wanted to be instead of being the first to die in shame? I guess Ornstein may have respected Smough and had somewhat knew his pain of not being in the high ranks, for Smough was simply an executioner.
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    Post by Werdax Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:03 pm

    I rather not think as that being the case. Ornstein is an awesome badass. Smough is a joke.


    Last edited by Werdax on Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by Eko Thu Jun 13, 2013 5:35 pm

    The only reason I don't think that is the case is because when you kill Super Ornstein you only get Soul of Ornstein. If he absorbed Smough's soul then it would make sense for both to drop. It makes more sense that Ornstein absorbs Smough's powers rather than allowing Smough to take control of his body.
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    Post by Sock Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:30 am

    I'd say that Ornstein Does absorb Smough's soul before Smough actually dies, and from here two options are possible:

    1. The only reason you don't get Both their souls when defeating them is because of gameplay reasons and that the developers simply didn't want you to be able to create both their weapons in the same playthrough run, or

    2. Instead of keeping the soul as a seperate one (Like you and all npc's does with the souls of enemies they've killed, the souls that are later used as currency), he absorbed Smough's soul into his own, boosting his own soul. Like how when you sit down by a fire and level up, you take a certain amount of souls that you've gathered, and absorbs them into your own personal soul, making your soul stronger but without worrying getting influenced by the souls you absorbed.

    Personally, I go for reason two. One reason is because it's good lore-wise, at least for me, but also because it's quite a show of power to do a mid-battle level-up without the use of a bonfire silly
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    Post by Eko Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:20 am

    I didn't think about it in those terms. Reason two definitely fits within the lore and sounds very plausible. It sort of makes Ornstein and Smough sound like Goku.

    The only problem I have with it is that there is no way to level up aside from using the bonfires. I know it is a really technical gripe. That's why it still seems more possible for him to have absorbed Smough's powers, thus draining his soul.
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    Post by Derpwraith Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:34 pm

    Eko wrote:I didn't think about it in those terms. Reason two definitely fits within the lore and sounds very plausible. It sort of makes Ornstein and Smough sound like Goku.

    The only problem I have with it is that there is no way to level up aside from using the bonfires. I know it is a really technical gripe. That's why it still seems more possible for him to have absorbed Smough's powers, thus draining his soul.
    I think of bonfires as lesser copies of the first flame, perhaps Gwyn, his children and his army can consume the power of other souls through the first flame. That might be how the four lords rose to power and created the Age of Fire.
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    Post by JohnnyHarpoon Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:45 pm

    OP, you're sure it's Smough who laughs during the fight?
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    Post by Uparkaam Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:27 am

    It's obviously Gwynevere laughing.
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    Post by Eko Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:31 am

    I never noticed the laughing during Super Ornstein. I tend to pay more attention to the giant gold bad-*** coming at me at high speeds. I still don't see any reason to think that Gwyn's followers can manipulate souls in that way. No item descriptions suggest that sort of thing.
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    Post by Djem Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:54 am

    I also never noticed any laughing.
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    Post by Sock Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:12 pm

    It's true as a player you can only level up at a bonfire but that doesn't exactly prove that bonfires are essential for leveling up.

    As I said before, if you level up by taking souls and absorbing them into your own, making yourself stronger, then the bonfire doesn't have anything to do with it. And really, when you Do level up, in difference with kindling or reversing humanity, there is no interaction with the bonfire.

    Instead, it is treated like repairing gear or reinforcing it. You simply get your leveling up done and that's it. Personally I like to think that the reason you level up at bonfires is because that when sitting by one, it's the only opportunity for your character to rest, take care of his gear, and improve on himself. Everywhere else he's in constant danger of getting attacked (Lore-wise, even though you can stand still in-game after killing the nearest enemies without worry).

    However Ornstein, seeing Smough die, or Smough seeing Ornstein getting beaten to a pulp, gets backed into a corner and takes a large risk and grabs the other's soul, breaks it down, and 'levels up' with it (The same kind of risk you put yourself in whenever you drink an Estus flask or pop a humanity while having enemies attacking you).

    And for gameplay purposes, our character either doesn't react in time, or simply lets the boss 'level up'.
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    Post by Derpwraith Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:26 pm

    Sock wrote:It's true as a player you can only level up at a bonfire but that doesn't exactly prove that bonfires are essential for leveling up.

    As I said before, if you level up by taking souls and absorbing them into your own, making yourself stronger, then the bonfire doesn't have anything to do with it. And really, when you Do level up, in difference with kindling or reversing humanity, there is no interaction with the bonfire.

    Instead, it is treated like repairing gear or reinforcing it. You simply get your leveling up done and that's it. Personally I like to think that the reason you level up at bonfires is because that when sitting by one, it's the only opportunity for your character to rest, take care of his gear, and improve on himself. Everywhere else he's in constant danger of getting attacked (Lore-wise, even though you can stand still in-game after killing the nearest enemies without worry).

    However Ornstein, seeing Smough die, or Smough seeing Ornstein getting beaten to a pulp, gets backed into a corner and takes a large risk and grabs the other's soul, breaks it down, and 'levels up' with it (The same kind of risk you put yourself in whenever you drink an Estus flask or pop a humanity while having enemies attacking you).

    And for gameplay purposes, our character either doesn't react in time, or simply lets the boss 'level up'.
    Of course the Chosen Undead let them, he/she's a badass.
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    Post by Sock Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:20 pm

    Sunbroski wrote:Of course the Chosen Undead let them, he/she's a badass.


    1. I agree with you
    2. How do I write outside someone's quote when quoting? >.>
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    Post by Encore Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:23 pm

    Sock wrote:
    Sunbroski wrote:Of course the Chosen Undead let them, he/she's a badass.


    1. I agree with you
    2. How do I write outside someone's quote when quoting? >.>


    You press the last button on the text editor "Switch text editor"

    It should show the code and make it look like this: [*quote="Insertnamehere"]The quoted part[/quote]

    Then write after the last "[/quote]"

    Remove the "*"
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    Post by Sock Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:57 pm

    Sweet, thanks ^^

    Anyway back on topic, anyone else has a good idea of what it all can mean with Ornstein/Smough getting the other's power and how it happens?
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    Post by Encore Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:08 pm

    Sock wrote:It's true as a player you can only level up at a bonfire but that doesn't exactly prove that bonfires are essential for leveling up.

    As I said before, if you level up by taking souls and absorbing them into your own, making yourself stronger, then the bonfire doesn't have anything to do with it. And really, when you Do level up, in difference with kindling or reversing humanity, there is no interaction with the bonfire.

    Instead, it is treated like repairing gear or reinforcing it. You simply get your leveling up done and that's it. Personally I like to think that the reason you level up at bonfires is because that when sitting by one, it's the only opportunity for your character to rest, take care of his gear, and improve on himself. Everywhere else he's in constant danger of getting attacked (Lore-wise, even though you can stand still in-game after killing the nearest enemies without worry).

    However Ornstein, seeing Smough die, or Smough seeing Ornstein getting beaten to a pulp, gets backed into a corner and takes a large risk and grabs the other's soul, breaks it down, and 'levels up' with it (The same kind of risk you put yourself in whenever you drink an Estus flask or pop a humanity while having enemies attacking you).

    And for gameplay purposes, our character either doesn't react in time, or simply lets the boss 'level up'.

    I think this pretty much summed it up.
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    Post by Marionx Sat Jun 22, 2013 3:09 pm

    That's an interesting idea with Smough possessing Ornstein's body after he dies. I have fought Giant Ornstein many times and noticed every now and then, he laughs like Smough, when he's doing the butt slam.

    Sometimes I find that Giant Ornstein picked up on a couple of Smough's traits in battle. Giant O. tends to be really aggressive at mid and far range, but timid and jumpy at really close range (which I find with Smough). Maybe it's a gameplay mechanic, but I don't know. To me, Smough seems to be the kind of character that would always want to take advantage of others. He always wanted to be ranked with the 4 knights of Gwyn, but his chance was ruined when he started eating people's remains and got fat. Why join them when you can take one of their bodies for yourself?
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    Post by Derpwraith Sun Jun 23, 2013 12:38 am

    Marionx wrote:That's an interesting idea with Smough possessing Ornstein's body after he dies. I have fought Giant Ornstein many times and noticed every now and then, he laughs like Smough, when he's doing the butt slam.

    Sometimes I find that Giant Ornstein picked up on a couple of Smough's traits in battle. Giant O. tends to be really aggressive at mid and far range, but timid and jumpy at really close range (which I find with Smough). Maybe it's a gameplay mechanic, but I don't know. To me, Smough seems to be the kind of character that would always want to take advantage of others. He always wanted to be ranked with the 4 knights of Gwyn, but his chance was ruined when he started eating people's remains and got fat. Why join them when you can take one of their bodies for yourself?
    Thank you!
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    Post by Latitoast Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:22 pm

    So, to sum this topic up, when Smough is about to die, they do a fusion dance and become Super Smostein?

    If that's the case, does Smough's Hammer and Ornstein do a fusion dance when Ornstein goes down first?
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    Post by Peaceful Wollyhop Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:47 pm

    The way I see it is that Ornstein just used Smough's Souls the same way every other creature in the game does.

    Souls make things big in Dark Souls e.g rats so I see it that Smough's souls makes Ornstein. Smough's souls is just a lump of power strength in my eyes which is why it makes Orn bigger rather than boost his res stat.

    And for when Smough crushes Ornstein his hammer just conducts all the of Orn's lighting power.
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    Post by Ashran Sun Jun 23, 2013 11:05 pm

    smough hit op too hard with his hammer.

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