The forest.

A lot of us forest hunters enjoy a good 1v1, but we never expect it. When I see one dude standing near a cliff it usually means one thing to me: his buddy is hiding in the woods with WoG, the dragonslayer bow, or the hornet ring ready to go . Last night, for instance, I found what looked like a lone host when I warped into Alvina's room. He bowed, then I bowed, then *wack* -- I got a great axe in my back courtesy of a hidden golden boy. Hornets ring, lightning gaxe = OHKO. Great fight!

I'm not trying to excuse my fellow forest hunters. The 2v1 invader gankers are as bad as the forest golden boys. But we all expect the worst, so people probably think you've set up a trap. Even when they learn that there isn't another phantom, it's hard to shake the feeling that the host is going to do something cheesy.

If your going to fight in the forest, you basically have to learn to deal with cheap losses and move on. You also have to learn the art of fighting 2v1 or 3v1. As others have said, it's a totally different skill set then dueling. A small piece of advice: when you see that two phantoms have invaded, don't stand out in the open near the cliff. You need to retreat to a bottleneck where you can dispatch one of the phantoms. Alternatively, you can feign a retreat, switch directions last minute, and pivot bs a phantom. You can also use the trees to make it difficult for one phantom to get behind you while you fight the other phantom. There is a lot of good advice all over these boards relating to anti-forest gank tactics. This advice applies equally to hosts who are getting ganked.

Actually I can see why some forest hunters might justify going in 2v1 against a host. I have before invaded to see the host and a hunter fighting. I stayed back and watched while the hunter kept trying to bring the fight to me, but I stayed back watching. The host killed him then taunted, I found this odd. So I bowed from far away and he tried to CSS me, I dodged it and ran in to fight him. He started fishing for BS and WoG spamming at every chance, so I just BS instant killed him. I got a message then from the hunter who asked why I didn't help.

"It was a 1v1, I like to see hunters fight honourably, you did well but you lost to him. Nothing wrong in that."

Then he explained to me that the guy was actually a farmer, I invaded around ten minutes later and verified the same host was farming. The hunter had killed his two summons and gotten just the host but died to him. I felt terrible about that, and wished I had helped but there was just no way to know. I still sit back and watch, but I also pay attention to how the host is fighting. If I see flasks or them running far away from the invader, I usually step in to check and see what is going on to discover they are attempting summons or to run to Sif.

The forest man, what a hive of scum and villainy, sometimes you can't even tell who the good or bad guys are. There's just victims.

Tolvo wrote:Actually I can see why some forest hunters might justify going in 2v1 against a host. I have before invaded to see the host and a hunter fighting. I stayed back and watched while the hunter kept trying to bring the fight to me, but I stayed back watching. The host killed him then taunted, I found this odd. So I bowed from far away and he tried to CSS me, I dodged it and ran in to fight him. He started fishing for BS and WoG spamming at every chance, so I just BS instant killed him. I got a message then from the hunter who asked why I didn't help.

"It was a 1v1, I like to see hunters fight honourably, you did well but you lost to him. Nothing wrong in that."

Then he explained to me that the guy was actually a farmer, I invaded around ten minutes later and verified the same host was farming. The hunter had killed his two summons and gotten just the host but died to him. I felt terrible about that, and wished I had helped but there was just no way to know. I still sit back and watch, but I also pay attention to how the host is fighting. If I see flasks or them running far away from the invader, I usually step in to check and see what is going on to discover they are attempting summons or to run to Sif.

The forest man, what a hive of scum and villainy, sometimes you can't even tell who the good or bad guys are. There's just victims.

My sentiments exactly - I want some of the hunters in the covenant to be able put a decent fight so at times I will hang back a little but if I see any funny business being tried by the host (attempted summon, excessive flasking, chain BS,etc) he will have a 2v1 on his hands.

Glad to see that tactic is working out well for you - let the hate mail pile up!! I would love to hear some of the other tactics you employ when invading the forest so PM me so info if you get a chance.

Good hunting always!!!

Brokewilly wrote:As a hunter - any host experiencing a bang is simply dealing with the after effects of our covenant being banged on a regular and consistent basis. I have refer to this behavior as hunter PTSD - if we invade you after taking 2v1/3v1 butt whooping the previous invasion we are simply releasing some steam nothing more.

This is very true and a real effect. I usually play sunbros so I am sympathetic to noobs, but there is something about getting pounded on for hours as a forest cov that makes you take any chance you get to actually win one. 19 out of 20 times you are facing the typical 3v1 farmer setup, but that 20th time will be a noob in starter gear who wandered into the forest for the first time. I try not to kill them, but man it is so hard after all those beatings.

And yeah many of the forest cov members are not skilled (and often learning PvP for the first time), but there are some real champions out there. In fact, the best player I've ever seen was in forest cov. As I mentioned in another thread, I dumped some poison clouds on 3 farmers, and this other guy just flipped right into the clouds and kicked the **** out of all three of them. It was like something out of a cartoon where it's just a big ball of dust and @#$@#$$ symbols flying around. The cloud clears and he's just standing in the middle of it like it weren't no thing, with all three corpses fading away around him. It made me want to go have a cigarette and I don't even smoke. Probably should have quit playing right there, because I'll never see anything that awesome again.

Some advice to other hunters, before doing some invading get in a bit of a refresher in the forest. Run a whole circle from Alvina's house past the mushroom people, through the cat area, across the bridge, and back up to her house. See just how fast you can do it, as well there are certain ridges and items that can be jumped over but not run over, and without proper timing and angles you'll merely hit a wall. This can be the difference between surviving a fight or not. Even if the whole forest is dead, it is still your ally. Another trick if you are using the DWGR, the moment you land from a high fall roll. You can instantly recover, you still take the damage but you don't have the fall absorption animation, you merely roll and go on your way. As well near to where the Pharis bow can be found you can jump the gap and land near to the mushroom people.

Hehe, maybe we should make a Forest Hunter discussion thread rather than hijacking topics haha.

I have had some fun in the forest invading but I am always looking for a fair fight and for awhile it was 3v1 spawn gank after 3v1 spawn gank so I got kinda sick of it. I could probably spawn from different better places but dont wanna run all over the forest every time I invade. I mean 3v1 is hard enough but back off and at least let a guy have a chance to fight. I can take on 3 at times also but like someone stated earlier its a whole different setup and it seems like every time I set up for 3v1 then I get a good 1v1 that I am ill prepared for, that is what frustrates me. But the kiln has been extra bad lately and it sounds like alot of you guys take the forest seriously so maybe I will start invading the forest again.

Tolvo wrote:Hehe, maybe we should make a Forest Hunter discussion thread rather than hijacking topics haha.

Yes

befowler wrote:
Yes

Dr Strange is already on the case.
https://soulswiki.forumotion.com/t2307-for-the-glory-of-alvina#34332

There should be no more derailment.

The thing is, as a Forest Hunter, you don't lose anything when you actually lose fights. Except tolerance for "Well! What is it?" taunts. I saw this dude earlier on my new toon (was around SL45), and I was fighting a guy wearing Havels and a DKGA. Which basically means that he had put in more points in Strength than I had in total.

I gave him a rather decent fight, for someone at my low level but eventually I lost. Guess what taunt he used?

At higher levels many of them started bowing when I died, and at first I couldn't understand why, since being killed 2on1 ain't exactly honourable. So I came to the conclusion that many just gesture according to how many souls they get from killing you.

ublug wrote:At higher levels many of them started bowing when I died, and at first I couldn't understand why, since being killed 2on1 ain't exactly honourable. So I came to the conclusion that many just gesture according to how many souls they get from killing you.

thank you for allowing us to gang up on you and recieve 50k souls from it.

I think the worst one is "point down" or prism stone. Like if you were weak after killing 2 phantoms and drop the host health to 200 before dying...

DarkW17 wrote:I have had some fun in the forest invading but I am always looking for a fair fight and for awhile it was 3v1 spawn gank after 3v1 spawn gank so I got kinda sick of it. I could probably spawn from different better places but dont wanna run all over the forest every time I invade. I mean 3v1 is hard enough but back off and at least let a guy have a chance to fight. I can take on 3 at times also but like someone stated earlier its a whole different setup and it seems like every time I set up for 3v1 then I get a good 1v1 that I am ill prepared for, that is what frustrates me. But the kiln has been extra bad lately and it sounds like alot of you guys take the forest seriously so maybe I will start invading the forest again.

DarkW17 - hopefully you be rejoining the hunters to assist with our eternal struggle against oppression (i.e. ganking, banging, etc). We can use all of the help we can get. The pay is terrible, hours are long, beat downs can be brutal but the feeling you receive when you survive bang is priceless!!

Carphil wrote:I think the worst one is "point down" or prism stone. Like if you were weak after killing 2 phantoms and drop the host health to 200 before dying...

I hate those freaking prism stones - especially when I see them scattered all over the forest signifying the fateful end of a hunter.

I actually use Prism stones when I host but, but I just make markers to let the hunters, wraiths, and moons know where I am. I mark trees then make a big circle like an arena to fight in, as well I plop one in the middle for positioning. Oh yeah this just reminded me of another trick for the thread haha.

I have tried to make the forest fun. I like to invade there because I can get summoned frequently and doesn't cost me any humanity. Of course 9/10 times its 2 vs.1 or even 3vs1.
So here are the things I do. I created a toxin build to try to poison whoever I have to fight. Firstly, this makes me feel better. Secondly, Hopefully it causes the gangers to eat up estus if they don't have the moss.Third, I like the purple fumes coming off my weapons. I will hit them with toxic arrows, dung pies, poison knifes, and poisoned weapons.
Occationally I have a fair fight. I once fought this dude in which we both went into the small building with the cat, dropped prysm stones then proceeded to take off all or armor and weapons and duke it out Fight club style. That was fun

yay for fisticuffs! (is actually part of my psn id!)
and yeah statuse effect and group buff builds seem like the best way to troll the farmers.

Alright, I'm going to do a little venting after a particularly unsatisfying encounter in the forest last night. It's about 11 pm, and I'm trying out a new strength build. I invade using a cracked red orb (I've got the cat ring on and I'm red orbing at the same time). When I get into this dude's world, he's fighting a blue solo, so I let the two duke it out. The host wins, I bow, and he sprints to the first stairs to summon a phantom. The phantom comes out really quickly, but I score a quick backstab and a combustion, killing him and injuring the host. The host turtles up and summons another phantom. Phantom two dies in a similar way to phantom one. I get in a couple of jabs on the host as he tries to summon another phantom. He retreats and grabs his estus. I backstab him for the win, BUT I get the freaking disconnect message in the middle of the backstab animation. WTF?!? Seriously, you cheese ball me for about 10 minutes while I allow you to fight solo and you summon multiple phantoms, then you DC when I win. It doesn't get any lower than that.

Anyway, my venting is over. Sorry everyone, but I had to get that off my chest. I still love the forest!

Yeah, that is the worst. No souls or ore either, you'd think there couldn't be a way for farmers to be worse. Well it seems like humans can always find a new rock bottom to hit.

Carphil wrote:I think the worst one is "point down" or prism stone. Like if you were weak after killing 2 phantoms and drop the host health to 200 before dying...

This is probably a bit sociopathic, but when I die as a forest cov and they spam down gestures, look skywards, or throw a stone I write down their user ID and shorthand what they did. Then if I ever run into them again, which is quite often, I will do the exact same thing in return. It's my own little book of the guilty. I can usually just remember the last 6-10 pairings, but if I'm in the forest for a long time this ensure nobody escapes sweet justice.

Befowler I do something similar, I just write down their names though. My "Book of the Guilty." I remember at one point I wanted to put down a list to point out farmers as some sort of black list, but not only do I think that is a bad idea, as well no one has any reason at all to believe my list is factual.

"Hey, these people are all jerks! Don't talk with them!"

The forest eh?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHW450IZpvI&feature=related

Yeah I make a point of throwing my list away after every session. It's just to keep temporary track, not some sort of permanent grudge list. On the plus side, throwing a stone after their death in return is fun because it should still be there when they respawn. Constantly reminding them of their shame with its twinkliness.

I think I might keep a short list of disconnecters (it's rare, but it makes crazy when it happens). When I see them again, I'll throw down a prism stone before the fight to let them know that I already defeated them. Then I'll black crystal out (I'm not sticking around for two DCs).

Unforseen wrote:Hmm, i've noticed something, explain this forest logic. -Invader sees 2v1, rushes at them- -invader sees one guy, runs and hides all day-

Lol.. this is very true..

I have played host quite a bit in the forest and out of 30 invasion I will maybe get one invader that will go 1 on 1 even though they see me alone. Mostly what I have gotten are 2v1 sometimes 3v1 if a DW invades. It's funny cause it normally starts the same I get invaded I see them they approach me very carfully..I can understand that, but lately they have just rolled or ran away and waited till another invader showed up then all of a sudden they are super invaders charging and swinging while the other circles for the bs..lol Its sad on both sides but still fun..lol