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    For the Glory of Alvina

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    Post by Brokewilly Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:17 pm

    befowler wrote:Yeah I am the same way, I sort of get locked into fights sometimes and forget other options. Plus you had a lot of spells available -- what sl is that char?

    I think my hunter is SL241 or something. This is the FH toon I primarily use to kill gankers - I find at higher levels I can usually survive for some time plus Alvina has been so gracious to allow us to invade trespassers with no SL restrictions (sweet twisted !!!). I will be concentrating on my GL toon (I just love the whole idea behind GLs) in a few weeks.
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    Post by Tolvo Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:20 pm

    On the Dragonoid and Giant Halberd video, you need to be way more aggressive. In regards to the dragon gang, both of them had low poise considering you have a Muakumo, as well the Dragon was planning too much on using his roar to aid him. Because of this running 1h r1 with the Mura would be a great option, since if he stops to roar or roll you will still get him with the large arcing swing, and as well it will drain nearly all of his stamina. As well if you had hit him just once with your Mura, you could have stunlocked and killed him. As with your BSS, one handed you can get roughly two or three hits in on a low poise target before they get away, so you could have been hammering away more often, as well you were too passive and defensive allowing him to heal at his liesure. If you had been more aggressive from the very start you could have killed him easily as there was a red phantom you could have worked with, but because you stayed back he was merely killed.

    On the Giant Cosplay guy, he was a Cosplay duellist, there was no need to try and draw him into the ents like that, even if he had a phantom the phantom would have to be half way across the forest since there are no points to hide properly, no dark shrubs, and if he was hidden body you do it near the host not far away.

    Just my thoughts on the first video.
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    Post by skarekrow13 Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:34 pm

    Very nice. Disclaimer: I lose a lot. I saw one pattern I would work on though. You're much better than I am at getting, lot of space. You had your shield up a lot with big gaps between you and the enemy. If you practice dropping the shield it should help with stamina management. Other than that I'm learning a good deal from these
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    Post by Tolvo Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:37 pm

    As for the MP video, I'd say again at points you just weren't agressive enough. As well at the end when you were low on health you should have full on sprinted away and healed, while you could still stunlock if you took a hit or two while trying to get it you would have died, which is what happened in the end. You might worry about a CSS from behind, but you can hear it coming, as well if you hear it roll to the side and run away from the line you were previously making and it definitely will not hit you.
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    Post by Tolvo Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:42 pm

    Alright Broke, you need to work on your dead angling with the Murakumo, it is amazing against turtles who poke through a shield. Start your swing, unlock, and face your character away, hit, then face back towards them, hit, go side to side now. It would have ignored his shield and stunlocked him right off the bat, and killed him. I might suggest getting a base Mura and finding a friend willing to duel you in a spot so you can practice your dead angling on him.
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    Post by Brokewilly Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:33 pm

    As always great criticism - this is what I need - feedback from the masses.

    @ Tolvo - yeah I need to be more aggressive - this is huge fault if mine. Mainly because of my desire not to make a fatal mistake. I really need to try to press the enemy more. My intent for being passive-aggressive is my desire to see how good or bad my opponent is (I gauged against my own level of skill). Also, I am a opening fighter - basically waiting for an enemy to make a fatal error then exploit it. Now with dead angling I am getting better just need to work on my unlocked fight withing the Mura. I will get better on both of these principles. And finally, running away to heal-up yes that would have been ideal - will need to start actively doing that when I am low on health instead of continuing to fight toe-to-toe with my opponent. So much to learn, so much to correct.

    @Skare - you are correct I tend to keep my shield up while there is considerable space between me and my opponent. I usually practice stamina management more aggressively when actually engage with my opponent (i.e. circling for example). I will work on my stamina mgnt more.

    Will try to upload one more video for today. Thanks for all of the feedback - this is what I need to get better.


    Last edited by Brokewilly on Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by befowler Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:35 pm

    Yeah I've seen a couple guys toggling back and forth with murakumos and figured it was dead angling. Seems effective if a little tricky to pull off. I assume it also cuts down on your risks of being parried?

    Now I really wish I could capture and post my own videos 'cause I need a lot of advice too. Broke did you find that making the videos made you more conscious of what you were doing, like studying game film? I'd think the process of knowing you will be reviewed would itself lead to improvements.
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    Post by Tolvo Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:36 pm

    Dead angles can't be blocked or parries Befowler, basically it bypasses all defenses of the enemy.
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    Post by Brokewilly Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:06 pm

    befowler wrote:Yeah I've seen a couple guys toggling back and forth with murakumos and figured it was dead angling. Seems effective if a little tricky to pull off. I assume it also cuts down on your risks of being parried?

    Now I really wish I could capture and post my own videos 'cause I need a lot of advice too. Broke did you find that making the videos made you more conscious of what you were doing, like studying game film? I'd think the process of knowing you will be reviewed would itself lead to improvements.

    Yeah - I have seen other guys fighting with the Mura using the style Tolvo is talking about. I need to definitely work on that facet of my play.

    No - DkS is such a mentally intensive game you completely forget you are taping until the credits roll (either you won or got beat). I never try to show off simply because the camera is rolling - I just try to adapt to my enemy as fight progresses as I normally do. I made these videos for the primary purpose of critiquing my self after bouts and being critiqued by others. I am looking for any and all ways to be come a better fighter.

    @Tolvo - you are going to make me go out and by DkS for the PS3 so I can attend your school of martial arts. lol


    Last edited by Brokewilly on Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by Brokewilly Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:10 pm

    Tolvo wrote:Dead angles can't be blocked or parries Befowler, basically it bypasses all defenses of the enemy.

    Yeah - dead angling is terrific - you can do full damage (reduced by your opponents natural resistance I think???) to an enemy if you can pull it off. But I did not know it couldn't be parried - oh yes twisted !!! Dead angling is one of the reasons why I use the Mura - the other is the high probability of stun-lock once you land a solid strike.
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    Post by Tolvo Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:18 pm

    I also do parry practice and general sparring with people, I have a base version of weapons with every animation, so that's pretty useful for that. silly
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    Post by Brokewilly Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:21 pm

    Ok fellow compatriots another video for your viewing pleasure.

    When I invaded this guy I immediately said WTF?? - am I about to fight a man with no shirt? I wanted to get some training in with the silver knight sword so that is all I used in this match. Pay specific attention after the toon is killed - can anyone see something wrong? Is this mod toon or not (a glitch maybe)? I bet this guy had crazy INT since he was trying to kill me (OHK maybe) with just sorcery. I also wanted to test the speed of the SKS against a katana - the results were pretty good.

    https://youtu.be/Bfbsr94ZFic

    Please provide comments as always.
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    Post by Tolvo Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:28 pm

    You got away with it, but your flurry of attacks while he was blocking is an incredibly easy way to get Riposted. I imagine you already know this though, and were just messing around with the weapon trying to get a feeling for it. When someone is throwing CSS's at you don't roll to the sides, roll through them. This way you can gain ground and possibly get a hit in as they get back from the casting animation. An easy way to punish casters, the same goes for CHSM. Also, he could have disconnected after death, causing a glitch to happen where you don't get your souls. Sometimes it doesn't show the message that session was lost, so more than likely that is what happened.
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    Post by Brokewilly Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:49 pm

    Tolvo wrote:You got away with it, but your flurry of attacks while he was blocking is an incredibly easy way to get Riposted. I imagine you already know this though, and were just messing around with the weapon trying to get a feeling for it. When someone is throwing CSS's at you don't roll to the sides, roll through them. This way you can gain ground and possibly get a hit in as they get back from the casting animation. An easy way to punish casters, the same goes for CHSM. Also, he could have disconnected after death, causing a glitch to happen where you don't get your souls. Sometimes it doesn't show the message that session was lost, so more than likely that is what happened.

    Yeah - I know a flurry of attacks could result in me to parried but I wasn't too worried due to the type of shield he was using. Most dudes I have fought with this type of shield are using it for 100% blocking, which is what he did ( I guess I was lucky with my prediction). Also, can anyone confirm whether you can parry with the Iron Shield (there is a question about parrying with this shield on the wiki). I have one but have never used it - I will check when I get a chance.

    Didn't know about disconnecting after death to prevent your opponent from getting souls and rewards - interesting. Now this farmer was a true scoundrel for doing that!!

    I will also start rolling through HCSM and CSS to see if I exploit the weakness of the attack. Tolvo - thank you for the tips - you are a truly walking battle encyclopedia.


    Last edited by Brokewilly on Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by Tolvo Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:51 pm

    The Iron Round shield can parry, it is a very great shield when enchanted with Fire and upgraded. You'll get around 80-90 fire Block, and 100 physical block. As well it has great stability and the deflection of a great shield while still being able to parry. It is a favourite shield of mine despite it's western design...While used by Shiva of the East.
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    Post by Brokewilly Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:58 pm

    Tolvo wrote:The Iron Round shield can parry, it is a very great shield when enchanted with Fire and upgraded. You'll get around 80-90 fire Block, and 100 physical block. As well it has great stability and the deflection of a great shield while still being able to parry. It is a favourite shield of mine despite it's western design...While used by Shiva of the East.

    Oh great :x - now I have to worry about being parried by a Iron Round Shield too. Just too many variables in this freaking game!! Well I'm filing this nugget of knowledge away until I facing one again. Well the training continues....



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    Post by Tolvo Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:00 pm

    Yep, if that guy was competent he could have incredibly easily killed you as you kept swinging away at him like that, but he didn't. He might not actually know, I've met a decent amount of people who ask me about the shield when I use it and get confused by me parrying them with it. Sometimes I carry a rapier with it, so people assume I'm going to turtle so they try to break my guard. Bad idea, Parry Riposte, dead.
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    Post by skarekrow13 Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:56 pm

    I always wonder about topless guys
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    Post by Brokewilly Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:38 pm

    Tolvo wrote:Yep, if that guy was competent he could have incredibly easily killed you as you kept swinging away at him like that, but he didn't. He might not actually know, I've met a decent amount of people who ask me about the shield when I use it and get confused by me parrying them with it. Sometimes I carry a rapier with it, so people assume I'm going to turtle so they try to break my guard. Bad idea, Parry Riposte, dead.

    Tolvo - remind me to run away as fast as I can if I ever invade a dude like you on the XBOX. Yeah - I think a lot people assume they cannot parry with the Iron Round Shield due to it size - it looks like a great shield.

    I think I have only fought like 2-3 farmers who used it and none of them tried to parry me with it. Lack of knowledge about your armaments can get you killed - fatal for them I mean.

    Taking notes on all the feedback I have received - thanks everyone.I may just become a decent fighter yet...

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    Post by skarekrow13 Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:08 am

    Broke, I'll join you in the "need to get better" subgroup
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    Post by cloudyeki Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:10 am

    Can I join the subgroup? I'm getting better, honest.

    I want to expand on Tolvo's idea of switching weapons out from the menu. I've started to set my weapons around so I have 3 for each slot that I can switch through in a few seconds. Right hand 1 are my G.Halberd, BSS, and Lifehunt. Right 2 are Quelaag's, Murakumo, and Artorias. Left 1 are Gargoyle shield, Sanctus, and Grass crest. Left 2 are Ascended flame, Sorcerers catalyst, and Pharis bow.

    This gives me the option to swiftly change to a more appropriate weapon on the spot and disorient my enemy. Today I fought a ganker after his phantom died. I brought his health down to an inch with Quelaag and G.Halberd. He slinks off to lick his wounds and estus. Before he can I'm rushing him with the lifehunt's 2h r2.


    Last edited by cloudyeki on Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:42 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by Quarik Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:38 am

    If farmers ever parried I would be screwed. My weapon of choice is remarkably easy to parry (great scythe). In all of my pvp with it, I found one guy who ever parried. He did that to my first attack, and one shotted me. It was embarassing.

    By the way, I've learned that while dead angling is great in duels and against single opponents, it's a bit meh against farmers. Personally, I go for quick long range swings to chip away at their estus for another invader to kill them. Also, if your weapon has a really long swing (in that it goes behind you), don't worry too much about getting bs'ed. A good player will crush you, but the farmers I fight tend to circle fairly close to you, and they'll get hit and hopefully staggered by that. It also seems to knock them off their game for the rest of the fight, or at least a few seconds. They'll be more cautious, and won't take the bs opportunities that you provide by trying to kill the other enemy.

    Also, at least in my experience, being overly cautious is worse than being overly aggressive. I'm way too aggressive, but at least that way I might surprise them and get a bit of damage in, causing them to waste something. Also, don't feel too bad about losing as long as you got some damage in. If they heal, you made them waste some estus, if they don't it's that much less damage that another invader has to deal to kill them.
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    Post by Tolvo Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:19 am

    I belong in the group as well, I really need to work on some of my poking skills, I'm still not all that great with spears.

    And that is a good point, I can't actually think of a time when a farmer ever actually parried me. Cloud, you're on PSN right? I might actually be able to help you via practice depending on your SL. Very nice quick switching, especially in regards to using weapons with different animations. I'm actually working on getting different damage types with weapons, so depending on a person's armor I'll go from memory and switch to whatever they are weakest to. Using a Magic Wep and suddenly they switch to crest shield? Switching to Chaos. I think it might really catch a lot of people. As well it will make it so GMB can never stop me. Very nice work with the Lifehunt Cloud, that weapon still just feels like a Glaive in my hands.

    Dead angling is one of my main ways of killing farmers, but you have to know when to use them. Long Range pokers and casters? No no no. Close range, BS Fishers, funnelled? Yes yes yes.

    I tend to agree, I'd say in battle caution while being aggressive is the most important thing to work on. While I'm always attacking and chasing, I always watch all of my enemies, and even listen closely to their footsteps. I listen for casts, swings, etc. I often move my camera about if I lose sight to go between the two never stopping to look at just one, however I manage this in combat.
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    Post by Brokewilly Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:59 am

    I have downsized my inventory to the point where I can quickly change between different types of primary, secondary and support tools quickly. This has saved me many times in the past.

    In regards to parrying I try to see what type of weapon my opponent has to determine the probability of a parry. If they have rapier or B. Knife then I know I am dealing with a someone who will make an attempt to parry. If I can I will try to get them to swap weapons because their original plans are not working.

    Yeah - I need to be step-up my aggression level. At times I am too much in the mindset of feeling out my opponent and become very lax in the aggression department. Will try to do better in the future.

    And to Tolvo point - listening is essential. I have be able to avoid being attacked from the rear so many times on those stairs behind Alvina because I can hear the host coming. That is why I have my audio coming out (full surround sound) of like a dozen speakers in my TV room (yeah its like a movie theater almost)

    More videos to come...Again, I appreciate everyone's input on my short comings. I really learning stuff even after so many hours of playing DkS.



    Last edited by Brokewilly on Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:02 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by Tolvo Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:01 am

    By the way I thought I should put this out there, because apparently a lot of people don't know about this. You can parry weapons that people are wielding in their left hand. I see many people get confused when I parry their spear in their left hand, so I just thought I should throw that out there haha.

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