by sparkly-twinkly-lizard Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:14 amhmm no mention of the dragon d***... I mean tooth? and what about the pickaxe:
+31
Shakie666
Myztyrio
Kiva the wanderer
billy_bayonet
Derpwraith
skarekrow13
sids__09
Sentiel
befowler
ResIsBestStat
Rynn
blkfish92
hey its andres
sparkly-twinkly-lizard
IIdoneus
WhatDoesThePendantDo?
e134rr0n
Forum Pirate
drdrack
Dibsville
Leet
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Soris Ice Goldwing
SirArchmage
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LunarFog
35 posters
A lesson on being a man.
sparkly-twinkly-lizard- Compulsory Poster
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Myztyrio- Insomniac
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Not very viable in Dark Souls. BS fishers will always overcome a tank. Wait for Dark Souls II for large builds. I know I will be playing them.
TheMeInTeam- Insomniac
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BS fish will not get a competent tank unless he gets caught in a slow attack while too close, which isn't competent.
People vastly overrate the threat of a backstab because they space closely and the lag allows warping. It's the same thing with dead angles; if you are wielding a spear and stay near the end of its range dead angling you is essentially impossible, since either they use max range and face you (you can block), or the DA attempt will miss.
I often just kick fishers a few times and blast through their shields. Decent players at least realize the threat and back off.
How do you fish someone who just circles backwards away from you? You can't do it, and if you handle your tank properly neither can they.
People vastly overrate the threat of a backstab because they space closely and the lag allows warping. It's the same thing with dead angles; if you are wielding a spear and stay near the end of its range dead angling you is essentially impossible, since either they use max range and face you (you can block), or the DA attempt will miss.
I often just kick fishers a few times and blast through their shields. Decent players at least realize the threat and back off.
How do you fish someone who just circles backwards away from you? You can't do it, and if you handle your tank properly neither can they.
SirArchmage- Insomniac
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You've never made a good tank build, have you?Myztyrio wrote:Not very viable in Dark Souls. BS fishers will always overcome a tank. Wait for Dark Souls II for large builds. I know I will be playing them.
I quite honestly get back stabbed the least when I am a tank. And I play tank quite often. I never even rely on dead angles to beat bs fishers
Sentiel- Compulsory Poster
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I Dead Angle quite a lot with my tank. Unintentionally.
I just unlock and swing in a way to catch a roll bs attempt, but if the guy decides to try and strafe bs me instead, he gets a Dead Angle. -__-
I just unlock and swing in a way to catch a roll bs attempt, but if the guy decides to try and strafe bs me instead, he gets a Dead Angle. -__-
LunarFog- Hollowed
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I rarely have problems with bs fishers on my tank either. On any other character I just counter bs. On my tank I unlock. Unlocking fails more than counter bsing but not significantly more. Plus I blame the fact that I spent my entire Dark souls career learning how to counter bs and just now started unlocking.
Rynn- Chosen Undead
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Backstabbing is obvious. And counter backstabs are easier while fat rolling than while fast rolling.
i have no issues with backstabs.
i have no issues with backstabs.
Forum Pirate- Chosen Undead
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i have no issues with back stabs while mid rolling either. I'm far more likely to land a bs with my slower rollers than to take one.
hey its andres- Insomniac
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LunarFog wrote:I rarely have problems with bs fishers on my tank either. On any other character I just counter bs. On my tank I unlock. Unlocking fails more than counter bsing but not significantly more. Plus I blame the fact that I spent my entire Dark souls career learning how to counter bs and just now started unlocking.
Seriously, locking on is horrible on larger builds. With the dragon king greataxe I can normally change direction fast enough to get them. I like the dragon tooth as well and if you roll just the right way, the 1h will dead angle every now and then (Freaks the f--- out of people.
Kiva the wanderer- Caffeinated
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Str builds usually use weapons that counter BS fishers ( Ultra greatswords )
Forum Pirate- Chosen Undead
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Or just unlock. I can tank with a kat/spear/gteatsword/halberd just fine. Unlock and swing/kick. Fire surge destroys bs fishing too. You look stupid spinning in circles like that but it works really well.
Animaaal- Compulsory Poster
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Myztyrio wrote:Not very viable in Dark Souls. BS fishers will always overcome a tank. Wait for Dark Souls II for large builds. I know I will be playing them.
I am in complete agreement and want this as well. +1.
hey its andres- Insomniac
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^ I did Ironflesh+Fire Surge just for fun one time and I actually killed a lot of BS fishers. With the Crown of Dusk, bellowing dragoncrest ring, and enough poise you can actually trade blows and stunlock people. Fire Surge can definitely work people just would rather use phantom combustion/black flame.
Myztyrio- Insomniac
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SirArchmage wrote:You've never made a good tank build, have you?Myztyrio wrote:Not very viable in Dark Souls. BS fishers will always overcome a tank. Wait for Dark Souls II for large builds. I know I will be playing them.
I quite honestly get back stabbed the least when I am a tank. And I play tank quite often. I never even rely on dead angles to beat bs fishers
I have a quality tank. And a Fth/str tank. And a high level ~400 that I use as a tank a lot. I have plenty of experience as every type of build. Tanks will always suffer against smart players.
Rynn- Chosen Undead
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Then you must not be all too smart of a player.
The job of a tank is to use it's additional weight to make certain it can always outperform the smart player, and beat them from sheer willpower of the player.
The job of a tank is to use it's additional weight to make certain it can always outperform the smart player, and beat them from sheer willpower of the player.
TheMeInTeam- Insomniac
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Sheer will? Don't be silly. What tanks need are different spacing, timing, and the ability to trade. If a fast roller's ability to punish is limited, it gets very hard for them to win a poise or DPS race and they're forced into a position where they have to guess.
Any decent build, tanks included, needs enough versatility to at least force its opponents to guess at what kinds of attacks will come. Poise is a big advantage; it literally changes what the opponent can do to you offensively. Maxed defense gives more room for guessing wrongly, as long as you avoid criticals.
What tanks have to avoid or counter are spells, poking hell, and fishing (especially poise fishing). There are ways to handle all 3 even while fatrolling, if you plan.
Any decent build, tanks included, needs enough versatility to at least force its opponents to guess at what kinds of attacks will come. Poise is a big advantage; it literally changes what the opponent can do to you offensively. Maxed defense gives more room for guessing wrongly, as long as you avoid criticals.
What tanks have to avoid or counter are spells, poking hell, and fishing (especially poise fishing). There are ways to handle all 3 even while fatrolling, if you plan.
LunarFog- Hollowed
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Exactly. Couldn't agree with you more. And those are all relatively easy to handle if you know what to do.TheMeInTeam wrote:Sheer will? Don't be silly. What tanks need are different spacing, timing, and the ability to trade. If a fast roller's ability to punish is limited, it gets very hard for them to win a poise or DPS race and they're forced into a position where they have to guess.
Any decent build, tanks included, needs enough versatility to at least force its opponents to guess at what kinds of attacks will come. Poise is a big advantage; it literally changes what the opponent can do to you offensively. Maxed defense gives more room for guessing wrongly, as long as you avoid criticals.
What tanks have to avoid or counter are spells, poking hell, and fishing (especially poise fishing). There are ways to handle all 3 even while fatrolling, if you plan.
For most cases in magic, you can safely fatroll through spells. If not then there's always shields with super high magic resistance like Havel's or the cleansing shield.
All you need to do to handle fishers is to play unlocked. Counter fishing is also pretty easy to do even with fat roll speed.
And dealing with poking just requires patience. Wait for him to get impatient and poke 2 or 3 or even 4 times, then try to bust through his block. Or just make use of poison/toxin.
TheMeInTeam- Insomniac
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I would say that in addition to playing unlocked vs fishing, if you're using a slow weapon (IE most things that scale with primarily STR) you need to mind your spacing too, so they can't close and get to your back before the animation completes.
The worst kind of pokes for tanks are 2h fast rolls off spears. IMO tanks really need their shield for that unless they're using some of the bigger ranged weapons. When you're using stuff like the mace you absolutely have to block, though fortunately spears are just about the worst weapon in the game for dead angles.
The worst kind of pokes for tanks are 2h fast rolls off spears. IMO tanks really need their shield for that unless they're using some of the bigger ranged weapons. When you're using stuff like the mace you absolutely have to block, though fortunately spears are just about the worst weapon in the game for dead angles.
Rynn- Chosen Undead
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TheMeInTeam wrote:I would say that in addition to playing unlocked vs fishing, if you're using a slow weapon (IE most things that scale with primarily STR) you need to mind your spacing too, so they can't close and get to your back before the animation completes.
The worst kind of pokes for tanks are 2h fast rolls off spears. IMO tanks really need their shield for that unless they're using some of the bigger ranged weapons. When you're using stuff like the mace you absolutely have to block, though fortunately spears are just about the worst weapon in the game for dead angles.
Spear users?
Turtle Back.
TheMeInTeam- Insomniac
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Rynn wrote:TheMeInTeam wrote:I would say that in addition to playing unlocked vs fishing, if you're using a slow weapon (IE most things that scale with primarily STR) you need to mind your spacing too, so they can't close and get to your back before the animation completes.
The worst kind of pokes for tanks are 2h fast rolls off spears. IMO tanks really need their shield for that unless they're using some of the bigger ranged weapons. When you're using stuff like the mace you absolutely have to block, though fortunately spears are just about the worst weapon in the game for dead angles.
Spear users?
Turtle Back.
I did kind of imply that
.
Shakie666- Obsessed
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This is a thread I wholeheartedly approve of. Leave the magic to Penn & Teller and go around like this.
No really, you should. You'll be surprised how much you win if you're patient.
EDIT: The nice thing about forest pvp is that there's plenty of trees and walls to back up against to foil bs fishing. While the DGA 1H R2 is a wide sweep that works well unlocked, walls/trees are probably easier to use for a new tank.
No really, you should. You'll be surprised how much you win if you're patient.
EDIT: The nice thing about forest pvp is that there's plenty of trees and walls to back up against to foil bs fishing. While the DGA 1H R2 is a wide sweep that works well unlocked, walls/trees are probably easier to use for a new tank.
hey its andres- Insomniac
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Patience is key in any battle. I've noticed that the person who makes the first move is normally the person who loses, assuming both players have similar experience and no hacking is involved. It's just because you CAN'T afford to be aggressive in Dark Souls, at anytime. Combat is much more likely to tilt in your favor if you're patient and counter things as they come to you.
Maybe this is just my preference, but I really think this is the ultimate playstyle, also assuming you don't have a plan like PW DMB Dragon's tooth
Maybe this is just my preference, but I really think this is the ultimate playstyle, also assuming you don't have a plan like PW DMB Dragon's tooth
SirArchmage- Insomniac
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Patience? Defensive? What are these silly things you talk about? On every class I play I go offensive. Don't care if I am a crazy fast ninja flipper or a slow walking tank I will take the offensive and always go first move. Due to the way I play, I don't let people take too much time to plan against me and constantly change what I am doing to different things mid-battle to make them guess even more. Only times I may go defensive is against a DMB or Sunlight Blade buff, Pursuers, or I am on low health and they can afford to be more aggressive then me.
hey its andres- Insomniac
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I didn't say "defensive" I said patient. 
You can play offensively without playing aggressively. The first blow bit was just something I noticed. When you invade you sprint to your target and R1 spam and roll everywhere? Do you fire all of your spells and use all of your stamina before your opponent has even tried to attack? This is what I mean by aggressive. Defensive and offensive are different playstyles and neither is better; however, if you want to be Dark Souls you'll need patience.
You can play offensively without playing aggressively. The first blow bit was just something I noticed. When you invade you sprint to your target and R1 spam and roll everywhere? Do you fire all of your spells and use all of your stamina before your opponent has even tried to attack? This is what I mean by aggressive. Defensive and offensive are different playstyles and neither is better; however, if you want to be Dark Souls you'll need patience.
Ghadis_God- Revived
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There's definitely something manly about blasting your enemy with fire and melting his face off. Think of it as manifesting the blazing passion in your heart.
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