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Thuggernaut
Ephexis
Serious_Much
passivefamiliar
Noob-of-Artorias
Myztyrio
Shakie666
steveswede
phastings
Cronotis
Senthra
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NEW Dark Souls 2 Gameplay! *Comic-Con*
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Seignar- Insomniac
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1st video: Confirmation of the massive nerf to rolling with a side of Death. It looks like rolling has neither I-frames nor Hyper-Armor. Giving blocking an indirect buff. Rolling is now more "realistic" in the sense that you must dodge ahead of time to escape the hitbox.
2nd video: Nothing interesting.
3rd and 4th: These are first clips of the in-game Mirror Knight boss:
- Despite the nerf, the usefulness of rolling is still evident as it is still the only way to move and throw off tracking.
- We get a look at a Greatshield's new "bash". It has a dramatic buff, completely breaking a full stamina's worth of guard.
- We get to see a couple of Greatsword movesets. Despite there only being 2 attack buttons, the miniboss showcases 3 initial attacks (Downward, side and lunging). Lunging might be the Greatsword's jump attack.
- Miracle casting is apparently made faster, but I have not seen any worthwhile effect from the casting itself.
- Further on, you can see the player dodge a hit with a roll and take no damage. This might be a near-hit or rolling has actually had their I-frames nerfed to backstep quality (really really strict timing).
- Mirror Knight looks more or less a pushover in-reality...until he gets out a summon (that are aggressive), then it gets hard trying to keep track of both.
In terms of what I've seen the Mirror Knight's assistant pull out (The Greatsword moveset and Greatshield bash), it looks pretty good. Rolling is still a bit hard to understand because we see sometimes a "dodge", then it doesn't seem to have I-frames.
2nd video: Nothing interesting.
3rd and 4th: These are first clips of the in-game Mirror Knight boss:
- Despite the nerf, the usefulness of rolling is still evident as it is still the only way to move and throw off tracking.
- We get a look at a Greatshield's new "bash". It has a dramatic buff, completely breaking a full stamina's worth of guard.
- We get to see a couple of Greatsword movesets. Despite there only being 2 attack buttons, the miniboss showcases 3 initial attacks (Downward, side and lunging). Lunging might be the Greatsword's jump attack.
- Miracle casting is apparently made faster, but I have not seen any worthwhile effect from the casting itself.
- Further on, you can see the player dodge a hit with a roll and take no damage. This might be a near-hit or rolling has actually had their I-frames nerfed to backstep quality (really really strict timing).
- Mirror Knight looks more or less a pushover in-reality...until he gets out a summon (that are aggressive), then it gets hard trying to keep track of both.
In terms of what I've seen the Mirror Knight's assistant pull out (The Greatsword moveset and Greatshield bash), it looks pretty good. Rolling is still a bit hard to understand because we see sometimes a "dodge", then it doesn't seem to have I-frames.
Cronotis- Addicted
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Thanks for the videos. Here's hoping the just nerfed i-frames and didn't remove them. A nerf I could understand but removal would be a drastic change that I don't think I'd like.
phastings- Addicted
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Does anyone else notice in video no. 2 the player-character lightsource is glaring bright? Hopefully it's just the LCD angle, bc what would be the point of dark areas and torches if your character is a firefly?
Oh boy.. I-frames removed from rolls means rethinking everything I know about light-build defenses..
Mirror knight does not seem to charge-punish when healing
Good find btw!
Oh boy.. I-frames removed from rolls means rethinking everything I know about light-build defenses..
Mirror knight does not seem to charge-punish when healing
Good find btw!
steveswede- Obsessed
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In my mind if they have removed the I-frames from rolling then the game will become cheap. It would also render rolling massively inferior to shields to the point where the only use for it now is to roll backwards. Bad move in my mind, I've always seen the Souls series combat as fair because there was always a way out of a tight spot and rolling had a risk reward depending on your timing. All this says to me if true is that stamina builds with great shields will be the only viable build and PvP will probably be a bit boring. Also if duel welders can't parry will this nerf to the roll render that build almost useless?
phastings- Addicted
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^right? I'm seeing a lot of poise-tank/turtling behind a shield poking spears back and forth in our pvp future.
Tho they are still tweaking, and have probably 6 months left (subtracting 2 for post-production n distribution purposes) to get it right. At the end of the day, if the new roll system sucks and enough ppl have complained, they can always patch it.
@steveswede: yea with no parry, dual-wielding would rely solely on roll-evasion for defensive measures. Without either would result in hack-n slash (n pray), which is not Souls worthy
Tho they are still tweaking, and have probably 6 months left (subtracting 2 for post-production n distribution purposes) to get it right. At the end of the day, if the new roll system sucks and enough ppl have complained, they can always patch it.
@steveswede: yea with no parry, dual-wielding would rely solely on roll-evasion for defensive measures. Without either would result in hack-n slash (n pray), which is not Souls worthy
Shakie666- Obsessed
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I'm kinda glad about rolls being nerfed tbh, currently in DkS there's no reason to do anything but roll. Plus, the whole point of dodging is that you avoid the enemies attack, not that you're magically invincible for half a second.
I don't think this has been mentioned anywhere, but I get the horrible feeling that they may have removed poise. If so that would be a major bummer for me (note: not seen this stated anywhere, just my gut feeling).
I don't think this has been mentioned anywhere, but I get the horrible feeling that they may have removed poise. If so that would be a major bummer for me (note: not seen this stated anywhere, just my gut feeling).
steveswede- Obsessed
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Shakie666 wrote:I don't think this has been mentioned anywhere, but I get the horrible feeling that they may have removed poise. If so that would be a major bummer for me (note: not seen this stated anywhere, just my gut feeling).
Unless it's been removed recently, poise is still in the game. Check IGN's 12 minute video to see.
Myztyrio- Insomniac
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Might this suggest that the Mirror Knight is an early game boss? I assume he is in the castle we've seen so much of(being a knight and all, and seeing the surroundings of the boss arena).
phastings- Addicted
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I found another video from Gamespot at the Namco booth. you can pick apart some more gameplay footage between the other games they showcased:
- the video footage quality is shoddy on these, but hey.
- the video footage quality is shoddy on these, but hey.
Noob-of-Artorias- Insomniac
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Loved the demo, played it a lot, probably wouldn't have beaten it if it wasn't for the fact they make you play with a *** Madcat's controller that's broken so it switches weapons in the middle of a damn combo >.<
phastings- Addicted
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Noob-of-Artorias wrote:Loved the demo, played it a lot, probably wouldn't have beaten it if it wasn't for the fact they make you play with a *** Madcat's controller that's broken so it switches weapons in the middle of a damn combo >.<
you played it?! wow, couple questions if u dont mind
1. how were the controls? wondering how fluid & similar input/response is to DeS/Das
2. It is hard to tell from these videos, but how did the atmosphere feel and graphics look in person? The player-character lightsource looks super bright..
3. could you discern poise or any difference in stagger between the preset builds?
4. Most importantly, from what you played, could you taste the true dark souls essence?
btw your avatar is fantastic. literally cracking up everytime i look at it. haha
passivefamiliar- Obsessed
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bias opinions on the i-frames here. I think they should be removed. It makes the souls games more what they should be. Realisticly hard. You should strive to use your shield more, or actually dodge. Not some mythical invincibility maneuver
Serious_Much- Moderator Trainee
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passivefamiliar wrote:bias opinions on the i-frames here. I think they should be removed. It makes the souls games more what they should be. Realisticly hard. You should strive to use your shield more, or actually dodge. Not some mythical invincibility maneuver
Much as I agree with you, the realism in PvE would be excellent, I fell maybe doing that makes dodges redundant.
I'm sure most of us are excellent in using spacing and normal fluid movements to avoid attacks in PvE. If dodging has no I-frames, there will become almost no reason to dodge as oppose to using the spacing (except against larger enemies, which I guess are the attacks you're meant to dodge against rather than block). To be honest this change could improve PvE. Makes it more gruelling, more approach based, rather than just going on how well you can time pressing the circle button.
In PvP though, it would be more crippling. Without I-frames on dodges, the size of a player's hitbox will be even more prominent and overawing than it is now. I can just imagine people using just the longest weapon they can find because it will be the easiest way to win by a country mile without I-frames in rolls.
To be honest, I wouldn't remove I-frames, but i would certainly reduce them. Make rolling less of a crutch to beating bosses (lets be honest, some 'dodges' are absolutely ridiculous that they work),and make timing even more crucial and other methods of avoiding damage more meaningful. The lower time frame would mean that under pressure, if you get the timing wrong you are punished for it- something that fits the realism of combat in souls, just as in any combat situation
steveswede- Obsessed
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What's with people's problem over I-frames? Is it because you don't like the idea of seeing characters going through weapons? If the Havok physics engine was dynamic enough to create a roll that moved around weapons when you press the dodge button would that be a problem as well? If this isn't the case then really your problem is with current technology and software, you're going to have to wait years before dynamic dodge moves become a reality.
Also I've played games that rely on a dodge mechanic with no I-frames and I can tell you in a heavy combat focused game it's a chore to deal with. Don't wish something gone until you understand just what impact it will have.
Also I've played games that rely on a dodge mechanic with no I-frames and I can tell you in a heavy combat focused game it's a chore to deal with. Don't wish something gone until you understand just what impact it will have.
Serious_Much- Moderator Trainee
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Its more the fact that the I frames are too easy to use, even with sub-par timing.
You see it in PvP when people fat roll, yes FAT ROLL through multiple hits of fast weapons. I think that is utterly ridiculous, personally and that it highlights a great imbalance in the ability of dodging
I don't think I frames should be removed, they're an important part of souls combat, but simply reducing their effectiveness, make it more difficult to force players to either become better if they just wanna dodge, or use other methods of avoiding damage such as spacing and using a shield. I think balancing dodging compared to shield use isn't quite right at the moment, and a nerf to iframes would help make the combat overall better
You see it in PvP when people fat roll, yes FAT ROLL through multiple hits of fast weapons. I think that is utterly ridiculous, personally and that it highlights a great imbalance in the ability of dodging
I don't think I frames should be removed, they're an important part of souls combat, but simply reducing their effectiveness, make it more difficult to force players to either become better if they just wanna dodge, or use other methods of avoiding damage such as spacing and using a shield. I think balancing dodging compared to shield use isn't quite right at the moment, and a nerf to iframes would help make the combat overall better
Cronotis- Addicted
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I think some people dislike i-frames because they don't like the idea of rolling through attacks, but this serves a distinct purpose. Ideally there would be different dodge animations for different attacks that showed a character literally dodging the attack. In other words moving their body in such a way as to not intersect with the weapon swing. This would be nigh impossible for FROM to actually implement in-game. With spacing, roll speeds, and all the different weapons swings, there's a lot of variables to consider. Hence i-frames.
As I said earlier:
As I said earlier:
Cronotis wrote:Here's hoping the just nerfed i-frames and didn't remove them. A nerf I could understand but removal would be a drastic change that I don't think I'd like.
Last edited by Cronotis on Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:44 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : grammer)
Noob-of-Artorias- Insomniac
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Like I said, the controller was gimped so it was kinda hard to get a proper feel, but otherwise it handled very much like Dark Souls, I slipped right into it very easily and it felt very tight and responsive...if it wasn't for the *** CONTROLLER!!! T.Tphastings wrote:Noob-of-Artorias wrote:Loved the demo, played it a lot, probably wouldn't have beaten it if it wasn't for the fact they make you play with a *** Madcat's controller that's broken so it switches weapons in the middle of a damn combo >.<
you played it?! wow, couple questions if u dont mind
1. how were the controls? wondering how fluid & similar input/response is to DeS/Das
2. It is hard to tell from these videos, but how did the atmosphere feel and graphics look in person? The player-character lightsource looks super bright..
3. could you discern poise or any difference in stagger between the preset builds?
4. Most importantly, from what you played, could you taste the true dark souls essence?
btw your avatar is fantastic. literally cracking up everytime i look at it. haha
The atmosphere was very much like a Dark Souls game, one moment you're in an large temple filled with undead warriors and turtle knights, the next you were above ground in a ruined building overgrown with lush greenery. Finally you used a bonfire to teleport to a long hallway filled with statues of horse knights, that came alive as you passed them, fog wall in the distance.
I played the warrior, the sorcerer and the temple knight, the warrior and temple knight could poise through some attacks by undead warriors with swords and small axes, but only one attack if the undead warrior was carrying a halberd or a greatsword. The sorcerer couldn't poise through any attacks at all, even an arrow would stagger him.
Last but not least, fear not, this is absolutely a souls experience, and an incredibly good one from the little I have played. All the elements are there, tight controls (minus the controller), the enemies are difficult and powerful (and smart as hell now too, almost nobody could beat the Turtle Knight without some serious back peddling), and the atmosphere is dark and foreboding. Dark Souls 2 is in good hands.
PRAISE THE SUN!!!
phastings- Addicted
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thanks for answering my q's. that is great news, noob-of-artorias! . 1up, brotha
phastings- Addicted
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if you watch the comic con gameplay footage uploaded by Senthra,
haha oops. posted this to the wrong thread. anyhow, might be a good thing to see greatshield with some more versatility
- mirror knight fight:
- when the minion is summoned, he charges the player carrying a greatshield and proceeds to shield-bash, which completely drains the player's stamina, so quite possibly they have implemented a more effective R2 for greatshields
haha oops. posted this to the wrong thread. anyhow, might be a good thing to see greatshield with some more versatility
Last edited by phastings on Sat Jul 20, 2013 3:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
sparkly-twinkly-lizard- Compulsory Poster
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- Post n°21
Re: NEW Dark Souls 2 Gameplay! *Comic-Con*
by sparkly-twinkly-lizard Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:06 pm
now that's what I call a shield bash! it looks like something that could pancake people who don't block it!
also the summon used a side hop part way through that fight! there may be more evasion moves besides rolling and backstepping...
also the summon used a side hop part way through that fight! there may be more evasion moves besides rolling and backstepping...
Ephexis- Newbie
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i noticed the first summon from the mirror knight was using some sort of spear type pole arm, and used a similar attack to the red eye knights in des who charge at you with their long *** spears
could become a useful(but very punishable) attack for certain spears if players can perform it
also, anyone notice that in the 2nd video i believe(could be the first i forgot)
that when the player dies, the character just falls and dies rather than evaporating into spirit particles like in des and dks 1
could be that that animation isn't in yet or they are playing with death animations still, but i figure i mention it
could become a useful(but very punishable) attack for certain spears if players can perform it
also, anyone notice that in the 2nd video i believe(could be the first i forgot)
that when the player dies, the character just falls and dies rather than evaporating into spirit particles like in des and dks 1
could be that that animation isn't in yet or they are playing with death animations still, but i figure i mention it
Myztyrio- Insomniac
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Noob-of-Artorias wrote:Like I said, the controller was gimped so it was kinda hard to get a proper feel, but otherwise it handled very much like Dark Souls, I slipped right into it very easily and it felt very tight and responsive...if it wasn't for the *** CONTROLLER!!! T.Tphastings wrote:Noob-of-Artorias wrote:Loved the demo, played it a lot, probably wouldn't have beaten it if it wasn't for the fact they make you play with a *** Madcat's controller that's broken so it switches weapons in the middle of a damn combo >.<
you played it?! wow, couple questions if u dont mind
1. how were the controls? wondering how fluid & similar input/response is to DeS/Das
2. It is hard to tell from these videos, but how did the atmosphere feel and graphics look in person? The player-character lightsource looks super bright..
3. could you discern poise or any difference in stagger between the preset builds?
4. Most importantly, from what you played, could you taste the true dark souls essence?
btw your avatar is fantastic. literally cracking up everytime i look at it. haha
The atmosphere was very much like a Dark Souls game, one moment you're in an large temple filled with undead warriors and turtle knights, the next you were above ground in a ruined building overgrown with lush greenery. Finally you used a bonfire to teleport to a long hallway filled with statues of horse knights, that came alive as you passed them, fog wall in the distance.
I played the warrior, the sorcerer and the temple knight, the warrior and temple knight could poise through some attacks by undead warriors with swords and small axes, but only one attack if the undead warrior was carrying a halberd or a greatsword. The sorcerer couldn't poise through any attacks at all, even an arrow would stagger him.
Last but not least, fear not, this is absolutely a souls experience, and an incredibly good one from the little I have played. All the elements are there, tight controls (minus the controller), the enemies are difficult and powerful (and smart as hell now too, almost nobody could beat the Turtle Knight without some serious back peddling), and the atmosphere is dark and foreboding. Dark Souls 2 is in good hands.
PRAISE THE SUN!!!
This is quite refreshing.
Nice to hear!
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If no one else has seen this or read it. New items, some things people already knew and the overall i-frame nerf to more then rolling.
http://www.reddit.com/r/DarkSouls2/comments/1ijdae/dark_souls_2_at_sdcc
http://www.reddit.com/r/DarkSouls2/comments/1ijdae/dark_souls_2_at_sdcc
MkfShard wrote:-Every action feels a bit more weighty. You're committing more to each movement.New Mechanics:
-You're no longer invincible during any special animation, like opening doors or entering bonfires.
-Magic has been expanded! Each spell now has a weak and strong attack, and some are even chargeable! Two-handing catalysts also changes the spell somewhat.
-When you're targeting someone, you're no longer restricted to attacking directly at them. This kind of threw me off, as I tried to back up and then heavy attack, but then attacked backwards...
-Enemies are much smarter. Even normal hollows were rushing me when I tried to heal.
-The enemies the Mirror Knight summons are weak, easily killable with a single greatsword strong attack. But they distract away from the boss himself, which can get dangerous.
-There's a shortcut in the dark basement area where the Turtle Knight is. You need to lure a firebomb hollow to blow up some explosive barrels, while rolling out of the way.
Sorceries:New Spells:
Soul Arrow: Now chargeable!
Soul Lance: Seems pretty standard.
Soul Sword (Guessed Name): SO COOL!
Soul Rain (Guessed Name): Easily the coolest new spell. It shoots a ball of light upwards, before raining down countless Soul Arrows. However, it has an issue with low ceilings...
Flame Toss (Guessed Name): One of two fire spells. Seems to fire at an angle, and so it was always hitting walls instead of enemies...
Fireball (Guessed Name): A straight shooting fire ball that explodes. The explosion hurts you too, so watch out.
New Miracles:
Talisman: The Talisman was very interesting! It looks sort of like a small mace.
Regeneration: A prayer-like spell that slowly regenerates your health for a while. I couldn't find any standard healing on the Temple Knight.
Unknown Spell: I couldn't figure out what this spell did, but the symbol looked like a body with a ring around it. It is chargeable for a very long time, and it gives you a fiery aura.
Lightning Burst (Guessed Name): An extremely powerful Miracle that sends out a burst of lightning that crackles over a wide area and hits multiple times. With it, I was able to kill Mr. Turtle in about three hits.
Dark Orb (Guessed Name): With very interesting implications, it seems that Dark Magic has been integrated into Miracles! It fires off a small Dark Orb that does moderate damage.
Green Blossom: It returns! However, it takes SO DAMN LONG to eat. Easily about as long as a weapon enchantment. Speaking of which...New Items/Item Mechanics:
Aromatic Ooze: Read: Sticky White Stuff. Extra magic weapon damage. Pretty cool.
Amber Herb and Twilight Herb: Magic-Use replenishment! I'm assuming that Amber Herb refills one spell, while Twilight Herb refills all of them to full.
Seignar- Insomniac
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Well, it seems magic just got serious.-Magic has been expanded! Each spell now has a weak and strong attack, and some are even chargeable! Two-handing catalysts also changes the spell somewhat.
It doesn't sound like something I like. Considering many people backup before they attack. But, it can prove useful when surrounded.-When you're targeting someone, you're no longer restricted to attacking directly at them. This kind of threw me off, as I tried to back up and then heavy attack, but then attacked backwards...
InterestingUnknown Spell: I couldn't figure out what this spell did, but the symbol looked like a body with a ring around it. It is chargeable for a very long time, and it gives you a fiery aura.
Lightning Burst (Guessed Name): An extremely powerful Miracle that sends out a burst of lightning that crackles over a wide area and hits multiple times. With it, I was able to kill Mr. Turtle in about three hits.
Dark Orb (Guessed Name): With very interesting implications, it seems that Dark Magic has been integrated into Miracles! It fires off a small Dark Orb that does moderate damage.
They have done a lot of things with Magic. It was made too plain in Dark Souls. However, this kind of means that it will be nerfed a bit unless these are rare items.Amber Herb and Twilight Herb: Magic-Use replenishment! I'm assuming that Amber Herb refills one spell, while Twilight Herb refills all of them to full.
