The Claymore and the Bastard Sword

The R2 attack for the claymore is usually the reason why people use the claymore over the bastard sword since it can also do thrust damage unlike the bastard sword's R2 attack.

Also don't forget about the r1,r2,r1 combo that you can use with the claymore that the bastard sword doesn't have.

The last thing I can think of is that people prefer the range so they can do an unlocked running attack which is effective against a lot of players in PVP.

The hell is wrong with the damage numbers for Lightning and Chaos (forgot Humanity?)? O_O

Bastard Sword is shorter and lacks both stab attacks of the Claymore, which are great to keep your distance and punish rolls. Bastard could do it as well, because it shares the roll R1 with MLGS, but it's way too short for that. That also affects it's running attacks.
Lastly, as was already said, it can't combo as well as Claymore. At best you may do a R1 -> R2 and running R1 -> R1 -> R2. Bear in mind that I never did these, it's just a speculation.

The only difference in the reach of the 2 weapons is the Claymore's thrust attack, outside of that, the Bastard Sword seems to hit beyond the tip of the blade, and the Claymore seems to hit at the tip of the blade, thereby giving them both the same reach with a standard attack.

I tested this extensively before the past 2 or 3 patches. Unless it was patched, which I doubt, this is the only difference in range.

No offense intended but this kind of seems pointless as they both have the same scaling but the bastard has slightly higher base damage. These tests just seem like common knowledge as all upgrade paths aside from +15 and crystal (and even in this case they are since they have equal scaling) are generally all relative to base damage.

Also this is much like sunlight straight sword vs longsword. Everyone uses the longsword because of it's massive combo potential, it's weight and the lack of 8-10 AR is no big deal when the potential to dish 1k+ combos out are there as opposed to the SSS which will never do this unless someone just happens to have a lazy thumb and doesn't mash out. Anyway, clay's r2 poke, and imo the even more valuable 2 hand roll r1 poke are invaluable tools that set it apart from every other great sword regardless of any slight damage penalty.

Bad example. While Sunlight Straight Sword does more damage, it's also heavier. You get damage of the Broadsword with the moveset of the Longsword for that extra weight.
However, SSS has slower attack animations, just like Darksword and SKSS, which ruins it's combo potential.

Tested this myself quite recently.

I just started using the claymore because I'm on a kick of trying every weapon out in the game and finding one that's right for me and the claymore is amazing!!! I really really like it especially using the R2 for unlocked PvP. The dead angling is crazy on it. The Bastard sword i havent tried yet but I am looking forward to it. it's really fun testing out other weapons

Sentiel wrote:Bad example. While Sunlight Straight Sword does more damage, it's also heavier. You get damage of the Broadsword with the moveset of the Longsword for that extra weight.
However, SSS has slower attack animations, just like Darksword and SKSS, which ruins it's combo potential.

Tested this myself quite recently.

 How is it a bad example when you pointed out the exact flaws with the SSS that I did. People use 1 similar weapon over another because of minor flaws that the other doesn't have, which was the point of the comparison.

The Clay and Bastard weigh the same and aren't as disparate as the longsword and SSS, SSS is in the class of slowest straight swords along meaning it has far less combo potential in addition to it's additional weight.

A more apt example would be the longsword compared to the broadsword, same weight same scaling, one has slightly more AR at the expense of not having a thrust attack as it's 1hr2. And yet people love the broadsword, this isn't seen with the bastard sword.

As a small aside I find it odd that the Darksword (what should be the comboiest combo machine of the straight swords) is so dang slow it can't combo it's own special attacks.

Sentiel wrote:Bad example. While Sunlight Straight Sword does more damage, it's also heavier. You get damage of the Broadsword with the moveset of the Longsword for that extra weight.
However, SSS has slower attack animations, just like Darksword and SKSS, which ruins it's combo potential.

Tested this myself quite recently.

 Sorry to derail the thread but, Longsword AND Broadsword both can do good combos (stunlock on players)? If so, with which attack? Also does the Sunlight Straight Sword do it too? What about the sword that Oscar uses?

ChizFreak wrote:

Sentiel wrote:Bad example. While Sunlight Straight Sword does more damage, it's also heavier. You get damage of the Broadsword with the moveset of the Longsword for that extra weight.
However, SSS has slower attack animations, just like Darksword and SKSS, which ruins it's combo potential.

Tested this myself quite recently.

 Sorry to derail the thread but, Longsword AND Broadsword both can do good combos (stunlock on players)? If so, with which attack? Also does the Sunlight Straight Sword do it too? What about the sword that Oscar uses?

 The most common combo is the R2>R2>R1, provided the first advancing r2 animation lands (also this is all talking 2 hand, but the 1 hand does also work) Others are just r1 spams, can get a few of those in before they can break unless a swap out of course. A semi infinate combo w/ the broadsword (timed very well, against someone w/ low poise, and w/o dwgr) is 1 hand r2>r2>r1,slight pause R2>r2>r1 the advancing r2 while 1 handed allows you to catch them out of their roll because of giving them the pause to do so, and it's more effective 1 handed because less stamina provides more follow up attempts. And no the SSS can't do any of this reliably, the most you'll get is a R2>r1 or 2 consecutive R1s.

Devokai wrote:

ChizFreak wrote:

Sentiel wrote:Bad example. While Sunlight Straight Sword does more damage, it's also heavier. You get damage of the Broadsword with the moveset of the Longsword for that extra weight.
However, SSS has slower attack animations, just like Darksword and SKSS, which ruins it's combo potential.

Tested this myself quite recently.

 Sorry to derail the thread but, Longsword AND Broadsword both can do good combos (stunlock on players)? If so, with which attack? Also does the Sunlight Straight Sword do it too? What about the sword that Oscar uses?

 The most common combo is the R2>R2>R1, provided the first advancing r2 animation lands (also this is all talking 2 hand, but the 1 hand does also work) Others are just r1 spams, can get a few of those in before they can break unless a swap out of course. A semi infinate combo w/ the broadsword (timed very well, against someone w/ low poise, and w/o dwgr) is 1 hand r2>r2>r1,slight pause R2>r2>r1 the advancing r2 while 1 handed allows you to catch them out of their roll because of giving them the pause to do so, and it's more effective 1 handed because less stamina provides more follow up attempts. And no the SSS can't do any of this reliably, the most you'll get is a R2>r1 or 2 consecutive R1s.

 What about the sword Oscar uses? The divine sword you find beneath the zombie dragon in Valley of Drakes.

@Devokai
Jans answered you for me.
Thanks Jans.

@Chiz
I believe Billy is the most qualified to answer this question.

If you break someone's Poise with Longsword/Broadsword you can use their 2H R2s to dish out some impressive damage. I usually go for rolling R1 -> R2 -> R2 and finish it with a bs. It usually does over 1200 damage. The difference here is that Longsword is easier to catch into those R2s, because it's longer, but it's rolling R1 is a stab, which is harder to land, but punishes rolls more effectively. Broadsword has a horizontal slash rolling R1, which is great to combo people, but requires you got more close and personal than Longsword, which can get you killed if you don't break your opponents Poise with it. The other benefits of Broadsword is it's 1H R2, which is similar to it's 2H version, so it enables you to combo even one handed, which is very useful for no Poise and DWGR builds, plus it helps sticking close to the enemy while maintaining offence, which is essential for landing combos. On the other hand, Longswords stab enables you to keep distance and dish out a surprise attack instead.

There's bound to be much more combos for these babies, but I mostly use this one in particular.

Shortsword and Barbed can do this as well, but they're weaker and shorter.

The rest of the class, either doesn't have the required moves to combo as well - BSS, can do the combos, but has tiny damage - ***...(Astora's Straight Sword lol), or has swing speed slow enough for people to be able to roll away from the combo - SSS, Darksword, SKSS. However SKSS has it's own little combos in it's special R2 attacks, that can be chained into R1s, but that's just a two-hit combo, which is hard to land, because both attacks are vertical and easily avoided.

Comes down to the R2's for me on claymore, the 1HR2 and the rolling 2HR2, the rolling 2HR2 is just made for rolling throw pursuers or dark bead.

Sentiel wrote:@Devokai
Jans answered you for me.
Thanks Jans.

@Chiz
I believe Billy is the most qualified to answer this question.

If you break someone's Poise with Longsword/Broadsword you can use their 2H R2s to dish out some impressive damage. I usually go for rolling R1 -> R2 -> R2 and finish it with a bs. It usually does over 1200 damage. The difference here is that Longsword is easier to catch into those R2s, because it's longer, but it's rolling R1 is a stab, which is harder to land, but punishes rolls more effectively. Broadsword has a horizontal slash rolling R1, which is great to combo people, but requires you got more close and personal than Longsword, which can get you killed if you don't break your opponents Poise with it. The other benefits of Broadsword is it's 1H R2, which is similar to it's 2H version, so it enables you to combo even one handed, which is very useful for no Poise and DWGR builds, plus it helps sticking close to the enemy while maintaining offence, which is essential for landing combos. On the other hand, Longswords stab enables you to keep distance and dish out a surprise attack instead.

There's bound to be much more combos for these babies, but I mostly use this one in particular.

Shortsword and Barbed can do this as well, but they're weaker and shorter.

The rest of the class, either doesn't have the required moves to combo as well - BSS, can do the combos, but has tiny damage - ***...(Astora's Straight Sword lol), or has swing speed slow enough for people to be able to roll away from the combo - SSS, Darksword, SKSS. However SKSS has it's own little combos in it's special R2 attacks, that can be chained into R1s, but that's just a two-hit combo, which is hard to land, because both attacks are vertical and easily avoided.

you rang?

The Claymore and MLGS are overrated. GLGS has great damage and 1 handed stun for minimal stat investment. Abyss Greatsword has insane reach with significantly less stat investment than maxing AR for a 27/40 Claymore. And Flamberge has insane phantom range and combo ability with high dex investment.

billy_bayonet wrote:

Sentiel wrote:@Devokai
Jans answered you for me.
Thanks Jans.

@Chiz
I believe Billy is the most qualified to answer this question.

If you break someone's Poise with Longsword/Broadsword you can use their 2H R2s to dish out some impressive damage. I usually go for rolling R1 -> R2 -> R2 and finish it with a bs. It usually does over 1200 damage. The difference here is that Longsword is easier to catch into those R2s, because it's longer, but it's rolling R1 is a stab, which is harder to land, but punishes rolls more effectively. Broadsword has a horizontal slash rolling R1, which is great to combo people, but requires you got more close and personal than Longsword, which can get you killed if you don't break your opponents Poise with it. The other benefits of Broadsword is it's 1H R2, which is similar to it's 2H version, so it enables you to combo even one handed, which is very useful for no Poise and DWGR builds, plus it helps sticking close to the enemy while maintaining offence, which is essential for landing combos. On the other hand, Longswords stab enables you to keep distance and dish out a surprise attack instead.

There's bound to be much more combos for these babies, but I mostly use this one in particular.

Shortsword and Barbed can do this as well, but they're weaker and shorter.

The rest of the class, either doesn't have the required moves to combo as well - BSS, can do the combos, but has tiny damage - ***...(Astora's Straight Sword lol), or has swing speed slow enough for people to be able to roll away from the combo - SSS, Darksword, SKSS. However SKSS has it's own little combos in it's special R2 attacks, that can be chained into R1s, but that's just a two-hit combo, which is hard to land, because both attacks are vertical and easily avoided.

you rang?

Could you explain me a bit about how the Astora's Straight Sword aka Oscar's Sword performs in PvP please ?

ChizFreak wrote:

Could you explain me a bit about how the Astora's Straight Sword aka Oscar's Sword performs in PvP please ?

Pretty badly, almost any other +10 divine, +5 occult, or +15 straight swords will outdamage it.