I just realized there is a thing called "Mega Mule", WTF?!?! (post your opinion)

Doesn't matter which 'side' you are on or how you coat it.
It's cheating.

And experienced players say it helps them and saves time?
W-wait? Aren't you supposed to be experienced?

Cheating and saving time are two completely different things. 
Cheating is a unfair advantage someone has in a competitive environment a.k.a. hacking. Mega Mule gives no one an unfair advantage in a PvP environment. Even low SLs would be able to get their twinked out gear anyway. So no, it is not cheating.

Unless of course you consider it to be cheating out of PvE, which is a laughable, as it has no effect on anyone other than the one doing it.

The Mule does let you have an infinite amount (practically) of crystal weapons though...that's a clear advantage.

Most regular slabs I've ever got with legitimate farming was about 9-10, and I CERTAINLY wouldn't use them on crystal weapons.

Sneezer wrote:Cheating and saving time are two completely different things. 
Cheating is a unfair advantage someone has in a competitive environment

99 of everything, 5 of every spell if I remember correctly + whatever else.
That's a pretty 'unfair' advantage over the 'new character' that was just walking through the Burg.
And I'm pretty sure everyone's raving about it helping them get into PvP.

^^^^^ Seem fair to you?

Yes, it cuts down on time.
Too bad most people who get their hands on it have to act like assholes.

Call me old fashioned, but you have no right to something if you don't put in any hard work.
And playing for over a 1000 hours or completing the game 100 times isn't an excuse to cheat your *** off.

There have always been low level invaders with end game gear, this merely adds to their population. It also has little effect on the new player's experience, most don't have enough humanity to keep going human after they die again and again, and most prefer to stay hollow anyway.
Everything this adds was already a reality in game. If people feel like it's so unfair to them that others can make builds so easily, you can always do it as well. If you insist on not doing something to prevent it, don't complain about it.

@ Animal - Like i already said, i agree there has been way more hackers since megamule. If megamuled characters were somehow removed, i wouldn't shed a tear. I have my legit accounts with the characters i've grown fond of. I don't mind if people use characters made with megamule as long as they don't have modded items or stats.

Also, about infinite crystal weapons and unfarmable items. You can do that with ps+ too so removing megamule doesn't remove that advantage from people who have ps+

FinPeku wrote:@ Animal - Like i already said, i agree there has been way more hackers since megamule. If megamuled characters were somehow removed, i wouldn't shed a tear. I have my legit accounts with the characters i've grown fond of. I don't mind if people use characters made with megamule as long as they don't have modded items or stats.

Also, about infinite crystal weapons and unfarmable items. You can do that with ps+ too so removing megamule doesn't remove that advantage from people who have ps+

I know you said that, I only said that it trivializes that sentiment to an extent.

And I would shed a tear. Some people have used the mule to advance community knowledge regarding the more complex mechanics of the game, which is obviously a good thing.

As far as the ps+, I think its much more inconvenient to go that route, but I don't rightly know. I've never used the mm, bb, or done anything like that. I do know that not everyone has/can afford a ps+ account though.

I really don't see a problem with creating a character from scratch and have never had a desire to do so, as with proper research you'll be happy with the character you've made.

For instance, I made faith build that uses the Crescent Axe, I knew the limitations beforehand and was not surprised by the damage output. I was happily surprised by the phantom damage though.  

Glad to see you acknowledge the good things MM brings. Although, there is always the pc community and their ways of figuring out that stuff 

No matter how much research you do, some things must be tested in practice. For example, I wanted to make Logan cosplay and i wanted it to have 50 int for white dragon breath. I knew that higher dexterity affects wdb's casting speed a lot but i wasn't sure would that really be a problem because i was going to manually aim that spell anyway. Well, i tried high int low dex version with megamule and wasn't happy with it at all so i made another Logan (on my legit account) with 45 dex which was much better. Someone else might make low dex Logan work, but higher dex Logan was much better for my playstyle.

But I think this was discussed in another thread about MM so there's probably no need to go there this time, don't you think?

Idk, I think any and all posts would prolly give some insight to Chiz.  

BUT, knowing him, he's prolly already figured everything out and is devising an ultimate comeback statement as we speak..... 

We'll see... 

To compete with mule players, a player has to either:

1)  Use the mule himself
2)  Spend several day's worth of time farming for crystal weapons.

"It's not cheating though".

My foot.  It provides an advantage only matched by a time investment that is impractical to the vast majority of players, and that's before we talk about NG +4 and whatnot you'd need for some of these spell setups.

Is it as bad as infinite hp?  Obviously not.  Is it cheating?  Yes, it is cheating and a clear violation of ToS to boot.

Unbelievable, another I love, I hate MM thread. I don't understand why we continue to argue, discuss, debate about it.
No offense to you Chiz, I know you been away and wanted to know.
While reading this whole thread, goin out for a cig and thinkin bout wut I was gonna say, I thought of something cause it's actually annoying hearing the same arguments all the time for the last 6 months.
This is to all of you who dislike MM. Now, don't take this the wrong way but some of you STILL don't fully understand a few things. This is mainly for knowledge not me being a jerk. Some people are mistaking MM with something else. For ex. infinite crystal weapons do NOT exist. You get 1 of each. On another thread a guy said you get 60k hp n 999,999 stamina. You don't.
So here's a little experiment to try.
Make a new email acct, (preferably from a site you don't normally use). Create a new psn acct using that email acct. Get MM and put it on that acct. Make sure you are OFFLINE, and try it out. You can always delete it after

Are you saying you only get 1 titanite slab?  Last time I checked, you get more like 99 chunks/slabs.  You need to get the crystal ember in-game to upgrade, but you can make tons of crystal weapons off of pretty much anything you can either buy or get multiples of in-game.  "you get one of each" = you get 99 crystal broadswords +5 for example.  Replace "broadsword" with any purchasable katana or other weapons if you prefer, or any weapon that readily drops from enemies.

Obviously if people hack the mule then they get more, but using 3rd party equipment to gain an advantage in a game clearly and objectively fits the definition of cheating.  The BB glitch was debateable since it was doable without system tampering.  However, now people just do system tampering and people are forced to spend days farming or also system tamper...and somehow that's become semi-acceptable by a large portion of the community...in many ways more acceptable than things that are *not* strictly definable as cheating.

As far as 99 crystal broadswords or 99 of any weapon goes, it's not possible with MM. Yes you get 99 slabs and chunks but you DON'T get 1000 blue titanite. To make 99 crystal weapons you would need alot more than 99 of the smaller titanite. Which means farming.
My post was mainly directed towards those who don't fully understand MM. Without knowing exactly how it works, how can anyone comment on how bad it is.

I know it's bad when we can't talk about doing it in this forum without incurring the wrath of the Mods.