Pure Artorias vs Abyss Artorias?

Artorias, most likely one of the most powerful knights in history.

He was unmatched with a greatsword.

Let's take a look at Pure Artorias.

Now the lore is bent a little bit and conflicts with the DLC lore so bare with me.

Artorias had the ultimate weapons of killing the creatures of the abyss.

His greatsword, and His Silver Pendant.

His shield was also known for repelling the abyss, as it saved Sif from the Chasm's power.

Take a look at the cover art for the DkS game case.

One of FromSoft's workers said that it was Artorias entering the abyss. (It could just be random junk made by fromsoft, but it does look similar)

He has his weapon in his left hand. His shield in his right.

Look at the DLC Artorias, he has his weapon in his right hand, is missing his shield, his armour is corroded, and his left arm is crippled.

Not to mention he is possessed by the abyss.


Let's look at the pro's and cons of each version of artorias.

Pure Artorias

PROS:

1. He has all of his gear, in top notch condition.

2. He is not injured.

3. His weapons are made for defeating creatures of the abyss.

4. He most likely, has more discipline and control of his fighting.

5. He has the wolf ring in his possession, he will not be toppled easily.

6. His shield can block and repel the abyss.

CONS:

1. He is not human, and any humanity that breaches his armour will be lethal.

2. His armour does not have true defense against the abyss, it may actually be helpless against it. His shield seems the be the only defense against the abyss.


Abyss Artorias:

PROS:

1. The abyss makes him stronger, he can charge it and he becomes insanely strong.

2. He most likely has humanity serving as armour, where he real armour lacks.

3. His sword is powered by humanity, and he seems to have alot of it.

CONS:

1. He is possesed by the abyss, and is most likely lacking proper fighting techniques, while he does remain using certain moves, and tricks, it's pretty sloppy.

2. His armour is corroded.

3. His sword is almost useless without humanity, but he seems to have alot of it so this might not even be a problem.

4. He is left-handed, and is using his shield in his right hand. (Speculation based off the person on the cover of dark souls, it was said somewhere that it was Artorias entering the abyss. But it could just be random crap made by fromsoft.)

5. He is missing his shield, and his wolf ring, as he does not drop it when you kill him.




So who would win in a fight? Go ahead and vote and discuss! Keep it clean guys.

REMEMBER: Sif would not accompany either of them. And Artorias would be using the Uncursed version of his sword.

Wilkinson3424 wrote:
4. He is left-handed, and is using his shield in his right hand.

ಠ_ಠ
Please, not again with left/right handed bull ****
It's confusing, and there's no proof for it. It's not even implied.


Pure artorias because he can think, and is specialized in killing creatures of the abyss, and i'm pretty sure he could preict what another copy of himself can or cannot do.

Wilkinson3424 wrote:



Abyss Artorias:



CONS:

5. He is missing his shield, and his wolf ring, as he does not drop it when you kill him.

There's no proof he's missing his wolf ring, because many of the enemies don't drop items they are using. Qualeeg doesn't drop her furysword yet it's obvious she has it.



And good idea Wilk. We can turn this whole idea into a poll and let everyone discuss it.

This is certainly an interesting question, as we have no frame of reference to how strong Pure Artorias is. But, I do think that the Pure one would win. Why?

He fights the Abyss and things of evil a lot, obviously. He would have experience with it, as well as an extreme amount of combat knowledge. He has both arms to fight, and his sword is most likely strong against the Abyss Artorias due to the Abyss inside of him. He is calmer, and with the Greatshield be able to go on the defensive to see the extremely aggressive pattern of his Abyssal version so that he could counter it effectively.

Both swords are probably of equal strength. The Abyss Artorias's sword lacks the magical power that it once had in full form, but makes up for this in being boosted by Humanity and sheer attack power, as I am guessing the Abyss Artorias is stronger then the Pure one from being boosted by the Abyss. In fact Pure Artorias might still have an advantage sword-wise, if there is that damage boost to Abyss Artorias due to the sword sensing the Abyss. While also, the Pure one knowing when and where to strike effectively.

Nonetheless it would be a close match. Replayed over and over again, I think both would have many wins, with the wins leaning towards the side of Pure Artorias.

Artorias Pure would win in my book.  There is a simple thing to consider.

Why did Artorias fail in the Abyss in the first place?  Because he gave up his shield to protect Sif.  Sif is his weakness, his compassion is his weakness.  With no allies to take advantage of such as Sif what advantage is there in combat against Artorias?  There is no aspect of him to take advantage of to ensure victory, with Sif Abyss Artorias could win if it targeted Sif but without an ally to aim for Artorias would be in complete control of the situation.

While the Greatsword of Artorias is stronger, I would consider the fact that the Abyss Greatsword has the power of the abyss, would probably multiple the damage done by a considerable amount. Surely at least enough to be somewhat stronger.

And with the greatshield, All it would probably take is one hit and then it stops blocking damage fully.

At least those are my beliefs.

Soul of Stray Demon wrote:While the Greatsword of Artorias is stronger, I would consider the fact that the Abyss Greatsword has the power of the abyss, would probably multiple the damage done by a considerable amount. Surely at least enough to be somewhat stronger.

And with the greatshield, All it would probably take is one hit and then it stops blocking damage fully.

At least those are my beliefs.

A Greatshield that is made purely to fight things of the Abyss would be rendered useless after simply one hit from something that nearly all their power is from the Abyss? I am not sure where the logic there is.

Likewise about the Greatswords, it is pure destructive force versus a specialized weapon for killing Abyssal creatures and things that threaten the gods. Since most of the armor that Abyss Artorias will have is just protection from the Abyss since his armor is corroded, and with the GSoA being made to harm things of the Abyss, there is a damage boost there.

As for Pure Artorias's armor would be in full condition, and with the Abyss Greatsword only being brute force, the armor Pure Artorias has will be effective against it.


Also, I agree with Tolvo. Artorias has no known weaknesses, while we can pick out the weaknesses of the Abyss Artorias.

SirArchmage wrote:

Soul of Stray Demon wrote:While the Greatsword of Artorias is stronger, I would consider the fact that the Abyss Greatsword has the power of the abyss, would probably multiple the damage done by a considerable amount. Surely at least enough to be somewhat stronger.

And with the greatshield, All it would probably take is one hit and then it stops blocking damage fully.

At least those are my beliefs.

A Greatshield that is made purely to fight things of the Abyss would be rendered useless after simply one hit from something that nearly all their power is from the Abyss? I am not sure where the logic there is.

Likewise about the Greatswords, it is pure destructive force versus a specialized weapon for killing Abyssal creatures and things that threaten the gods. Since most of the armor that Abyss Artorias will have is just protection from the Abyss since his armor is corroded, and with the GSoA being made to harm things of the Abyss, there is a damage boost there.

As for Pure Artorias's armor would be in full condition, and with the Abyss Greatsword only being brute force, the armor Pure Artorias has will be effective against it.


Also, I agree with Tolvo. Artorias has no known weaknesses, while we can pick out the weaknesses of the Abyss Artorias.

Not useless, just not full block anymore.

But why Stray is there any founding for that?

Tolvo wrote:But why Stray is there any founding for that?

The very fact that the abyss weakened the shield. I would think it happened over time, so one hit, would maybe make it only reduce damage by 99% then. Something like that.

Pure Artorias, seeing as he would have his shield and sword with him. I see it as this, once his shield is gone he has a large weakness to exploit; we did this and so did Manus. Had he kept his shield he probably could have taken Manus on and probably would have killed him too.

It could very well be hundreds of hits before reaching 99% damage reduction, understand the Abyss Artorias faced far surpasses the power of Corrupt Artorias himself. Swarmed by the humanity sprites, per second they deal quite a bit of damage and swarm.  The shield was still blocking 80% by the time we reach it and it has been under constant attack with the barrier it creates around it protecting Sif.

Tolvo wrote:It could very well be hundreds of hits before reaching 99% damage reduction, understand the Abyss Artorias faced far surpasses the power of Corrupt Artorias himself. Swarmed by the humanity sprites, per second they deal quite a bit of damage and swarm.  The shield was still blocking 80% by the time we reach it and it has been under constant attack with the barrier it creates around it protecting Sif.

Yeah, but you also have to consider a huge sword smashing down on it as well, at the same time as being hit by abyss.

And humanity is pretty much the same thing as the abyss (I know it's not really, but I think it counts close enough.)

Corrupt Artorias deals magic damage with his explosion, and can sling very weak abyss essence that deals almost no damage.  Please try to apply what we know about the gear and abilities of characters.  Each sword swing doesn't deal abyss damage upon his foe, each swing is just a hit with a large sword.  That's it, and we are still talking a greatshield.  Hell there might be something with the original version against the shield since it deals magic damage as well.  Stray we have to stick with the facts and not try to jump to far too many conclusions without anything backing it up.

Tolvo wrote:Corrupt Artorias deals magic damage with his explosion, and can sling very weak abyss essence that deals almost no damage.  Please try to apply what we know about the gear and abilities of characters.  Each sword swing doesn't deal abyss damage upon his foe, each swing is just a hit with a large sword.  That's it, and we are still talking a greatshield.  Hell there might be something with the original version against the shield since it deals magic damage as well.  Stray we have to stick with the facts and not try to jump to far too many conclusions without anything backing it up.

.......... Leaves thread............ 


Sorry for being stupid then. I apologize.

Soul of Stray Demon wrote:

Tolvo wrote:It could very well be hundreds of hits before reaching 99% damage reduction, understand the Abyss Artorias faced far surpasses the power of Corrupt Artorias himself. Swarmed by the humanity sprites, per second they deal quite a bit of damage and swarm.  The shield was still blocking 80% by the time we reach it and it has been under constant attack with the barrier it creates around it protecting Sif.

Yeah, but you also have to consider a huge sword smashing down on it as well, at the same time as being hit by abyss.

And humanity is pretty much the same thing as the abyss (I know it's not really, but I think it counts close enough.)

The shield was damaged by constantly being attacked for who knows how many years it was sitting there just protecting Sif. As well as the shield expending power constantly by putting up the barrier. Saying that that is the same as a big sword smashing against it, with the only attack from the Abyss being that it makes that big sword hit a bit harder, I doubt the shield will even feel it.

Soul of Stray Demon wrote:While the Greatsword of Artorias is stronger, I would consider the fact that the Abyss Greatsword has the power of the abyss, would probably multiple the damage done by a considerable amount. Surely at least enough to be somewhat stronger.

And with the greatshield, All it would probably take is one hit and then it stops blocking damage fully.

At least those are my beliefs.

Since Artorias was corrupted by the abyss together with his weapon that was turned into the Abyss Greatsword wouldnt that mean that the sword wielded by Sif is a fake? The Greatsword of Artorias forged from the Soul of Sif is more of a replica of the original sword that was corrupted so its more or less the Greatsword of Sif. We dont know how powerful the original sword could have been.

I SAID SORRY, STOP POINTING OUT THE FLAWS.
 Please.

I'm not trying to call you stupid Stray or single you out, but we have to try and focus on what we know then lead into speculation from there.  

I'd say one thing that could be going against Pure Artorias is speed.  The move sets for the regular Artorias swords are much slower and with the increased raw physical power of Corrupted Artorias along with his carelessness in regards to pain, would let him move much faster.  Speed and Power combined are quite deadly, and can be overcome with skill.  But the speed does make it more difficult in regards.

Pure Artorias takes the win..
Abyss Artorias is way hotter.

Obviously the addition of a sane mind and great shield out play the brute strength tactics the Abyss Artorias would use. Plus Artorias before Abyss was before the patch so he could easily 2h greatsword stunlock Abyss Artorias to death. gd ez pk np.

Zeta Prime wrote:Pure Artorias takes the win..
Abyss Artorias is way hotter.

Obviously the addition of a sane mind and great shield out play the brute strength tactics the Abyss Artorias would use. Plus Artorias before Abyss was before the patch so he could easily 2h greatsword stunlock Abyss Artorias to death. gd ez pk np.

Yeah, but then we put it on a P.C. .......

Game mechanics of the swords and attack power are not what they would be lore wise, Artorias would be able to do at least 30 - 40 times the damage he does in a real Lore based fight in both pure and Corrupt forms, Just because in game the cleansing greatshield blocks only 80% blah blah doesnt matter, Lore wise before Artorias became corrupt they were overrun by abyssal creatures and In a last attempt to protect his best friend and Companion Sif he put up the protective barrier to protect him, The fallen Artorias then became corrupt by the power of the abyss, Increasing his strength through the mounds of humanity that lives within the abyss, Now the lore doesn't state that Artorias ever lost his wolf ring. Though it does state that Before the overrunning and defeat, Artorias had lost his Silver Pendant which was created to fight off the powers of the abyss. Though Injured, The corrupt Artorias had always proved to be a terrible enemy for any being to face and after some time of terrorizing the town of Oolacile, Finally he had been Finished off by the Chosen Undead after emerging from the abyss. 

In light of information given I would say that though Artorias may have had his shield it still managed to somehow become broken by the abyssal creatures, which means Artorias would sooner or later lose himself to the abyss and become corrupt either way. In my mind the advanced power of Abyssal Artorias would make him a terrible opponent towards Pure Artorias due to the Abyssal Artorias would know exactly what Pure Artorias' abilities are seeing as he was once that. He would work around the armor, Shield, and Pendant to beat the pure Artorias in one way or the next, Be it over powering himself in Darkness by draining the humanity of the abyss to give himself more strength and possibly heal himself of damages or otherwise, Though this is Entirely my opinion and I am open to anything anyone wishes to say about it.

As long as it doesn't start an argument 

~Darkfallen~

^
I think your overestimating Abyss Artorias' will to reason and to understand what he fights. he becomes a being of brute force.. unlikely able to form coherent strategy which would most likely be his downfall... that and the lack of strength/utility given by Artorias' still functional shield arm.

You could raise that statement, Indeed and I won't Argue that with you. It is Entirely true. Though through lore it does not state how far the corruption of Abyssal Artorias had spread when the Chosen Undead appeared to kill him to retain his honor. If you look at it in this way like I do he may still have that ability to plan and fight in a pattern in which he could fight, though later throughout the fight he may end up losing said ability and Become this beast fueled by the rage of the abyss and attack without planning or any such act and just put the killing intent behind his power and nothing more. there is also a slight problem with mobility, Granted the Greatshield Pure Artorias may have it will definately effect his movement unlike the Unshielded Abyssal Artorias who has better movement with his semi-shattered gear and Granted the broken arm which he may or may not use to cast abyssal magic

Either way the fight would rage on for a good long while and in truth any manner of side could win with the power they posses


Though I do however love lore arguments, Weather im wrong on what I say or not I enjoy being proved wrong for it gives me a learning opportunity, Am I wrong?