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    Painting Guardian Sword... Very Underrated?

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    Post by Rynn Sat Oct 05, 2013 2:06 am

    Latitoast wrote:
    Rynn wrote:
    Marino. wrote:R2s are worthless 
    Absolutely NO heavy attack is useless.
    The Artorias Greatswords would like to have a word with you.

    Simply put, the PGS doesn't have enough range, the Falchion has better ranged while still cutting through gankers like it's nothing with DMB.
    I have hit people with each and every one of them. i did it in an R2 challenge stream. thumbs up
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    Post by sparkly-twinkly-lizard Sat Oct 05, 2013 2:40 am

    the arty gs's twohanded r2's are great for baiting opponents and tossing them off cliffs. its good fun playing baseball with enemies lol.
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    Post by FinPeku Sat Oct 05, 2013 2:58 am

    Almost all the curved swords are decent pvp weapons. I prefer shotel for the R2 and gold tracer for bleed. PGS is more a fun weapon really, the range is bad and while the R2s are fun and situationally useful, they're usually not worth it. It's the 2h stunlock where curved swords really shine and it's very difficult to catch your opponent with so short range.

    Shieldpokes, backstabs and outranging always work for me against curved swords. Backstabs only if my opponent is mindlessly rushing me. I rarely try to parry them honestly.
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    Post by Hugh_G_Johnson Sat Oct 05, 2013 3:46 am

    First; I just have to say the flamberge R2s are terrible.  Second; good to see you around again Rynn. wave 

    Down to business: the PSG has less range than a curved sword, less bleed (and range) than the gold tracer and very weak criticals compared to daggers.  The fact that you can buff it is almost nullified by the range.  You need room and time to buff, yet you need to get right on top of your opponent to do any damage.  Most likely anyone who allows you to get close to them after watching you buff a PSG has something up their sleeve, or is inexperienced or not so bright and would be fodder no matter what.  By contrast; you can swap to a gold tracer and have your opponent stunned and bled almost before they know you've switched weapons.  
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    Post by reim0027 Sat Oct 05, 2013 2:33 pm

    I've tried it and wasn't impressed. It's range is too short and it is very easily kited or rolled around. Now, if you can get someone stuck in a corridor, that's another story.
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    Post by Seignar Sat Oct 05, 2013 3:28 pm

    The PGS is a bit underrated, it is a murderous weapon and was a lot better before Gold Tracer came around, but now Gold Tracer stole its light.

    However, the weapon itself isn't very good. Range is one of the most vital factors in PvP, as most people will know from spear-users. The horrid range means there at least 100 different ways for you to get hit and only 1 way for you to hit. Unless your damage is 9999, AR looses a lot of value.

    Its only good part being Bleed, which is no longer as good due to the Gold Tracer, which is better than it at that part.

    Right now, the only way to effectively use the PGS is to stack Poise to 76 and -at least- mid-roll, then proceed with a very straight forward "in your face" tactic, which has a ton of problems.

    Like many say, after Gold Tracer was introduced, it became a sub-par weapon. If Gold Tracer didn't exist, it would be a decent weapon only because its unique bleed.
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    Post by Juutas Sat Oct 05, 2013 4:17 pm

    I got in the top 10 on the arena on SL 100 bracket with the PGS (and no...it wasn't buffed!), so I definitely don't consider it a bad weapon, actually it's one of my favorites.

    Curved swords in general have bad reputation because most of the people you see using them either buff it or spam it, when the move sets have waaaaay more to offer and when used fluidly the battle can look rather gorgeous happy
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    Post by Rynn Sat Oct 05, 2013 4:45 pm

    Hugh_G_Johnson wrote:First; I just have to say the flamberge R2s are terrible.  Second; good to see you around again Rynn. wave 

    Down to business: the PSG has less range than a curved sword, less bleed (and range) than the gold tracer and very weak criticals compared to daggers.  The fact that you can buff it is almost nullified by the range.  You need room and time to buff, yet you need to get right on top of your opponent to do any damage.  Most likely anyone who allows you to get close to them after watching you buff a PSG has something up their sleeve, or is inexperienced or not so bright and would be fodder no matter what.  By contrast; you can swap to a gold tracer and have your opponent stunned and bled almost before they know you've switched weapons.  
    Um. Nooooo.
    Flamberge R2's are super extra awesome. Unless you think the entire class of weapons known as Curved Greatswords suck.
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    Post by Hugh_G_Johnson Sat Oct 05, 2013 5:43 pm

    @Juutas: Was that because of the PSG or in spite of it though?  

    @Rynn: The curved greatswords have higher AR and more range than the flamberge.  So they have use... but, how useful are the R2s on them?  I just fail to understand why I would want to use more stamina to do an attack that's just a slower version of the 1-handed R1.  Essentially the flamberge only has two standard moves... and less AR in exchange for (useless) bleed.  The flamberge is the PSG of greatswords.
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    Post by Soul of Stray Demon Sat Oct 05, 2013 5:48 pm

    Hugh_G_Johnson wrote:@Juutas: Was that because of the PSG or in spite of it though?  

    @Rynn: The curved greatswords have higher AR and more range than the flamberge.  So they have use... but, how useful are the R2s on them?  I just fail to understand why I would want to use more stamina to do an attack that's just a slower version of the 1-handed R1.  Essentially the flamberge only has two standard moves... and less AR in exchange for (useless) bleed.  The flamberge is the PSG of greatswords.
    Actually the R2's on the Flamberge do amazing poise damage and knockback. If you hit with them, it's quite useful. Although yeah, because of how slow it is, the bleed on it is pretty much useless.
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    Post by Juutas Sat Oct 05, 2013 5:51 pm

    Hugh_G_Johnson wrote:@Juutas: Was that because of the PSG or in spite of it though?  

     
    I'm sorry, but i cannot understand the question (lost in translation there) big grin
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    Post by Soul of Stray Demon Sat Oct 05, 2013 5:53 pm

    Juutas wrote:
    Hugh_G_Johnson wrote:@Juutas: Was that because of the PSG or in spite of it though?  

     
    I'm sorry, but i cannot understand the question (lost in translation there) big grin
    Did you accomplish that because you used that PSG or did you accomplish it although you had the PSG? So, is the PSG good or bad?
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    Post by Juutas Sat Oct 05, 2013 5:58 pm

    Soul of Stray Demon wrote:
    Juutas wrote:
    Hugh_G_Johnson wrote:@Juutas: Was that because of the PSG or in spite of it though?  

     
    I'm sorry, but i cannot understand the question (lost in translation there) big grin
    Did you accomplish that because you used that PSG or did you accomplish it although you had the PSG? So, is the PSG good or bad?
    PGS is definitely viable PvP weapon, that is what I meant to say (wasn't it obvious though, haha big grin)
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    Post by Rynn Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:16 pm

    Hugh_G_Johnson wrote:@Juutas: Was that because of the PSG or in spite of it though?  

    @Rynn: The curved greatswords have higher AR and more range than the flamberge.  So they have use... but, how useful are the R2s on them?  I just fail to understand why I would want to use more stamina to do an attack that's just a slower version of the 1-handed R1.  Essentially the flamberge only has two standard moves... and less AR in exchange for (useless) bleed.  The flamberge is the PSG of greatswords.
    You've got the superior moveset of a greatsword, with the stunlocking capacity of a Curved Greatsword. The Flamberg is IMO the best greatsword because of this.
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    Post by The Letter X Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:44 pm

    The Flamberge is definitely an upper tier weapon, even up there with the Claymore. It just depends on how you use it.

    The PGS on the other hand requires quite a handy user to do well with, just like any other difficult to use weapons.
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    Post by SirArchmage Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:55 pm

    I rank Flamberge as a pretty great weapon, even though I never use it due to my not using much dex weapons.

    If you think of it in the way Rynn said, AND think about how it is a dex weapon while the Curved Greatswords and Claymore are quality weapons, it makes it extremely useful. Having nearly the same damage as a claymore with only stats in dex is pretty great.

    Plus the R2 can dead-angle, and its animation is so odd that people might dodge at the wrong time when you do it.
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    Post by Hugh_G_Johnson Sat Oct 05, 2013 7:46 pm

    Juutas wrote:PGS is definitely viable PvP weapon, that is what I meant to say (wasn't it obvious though, haha big grin)
    @ Juutas: Yeah, but viable just means that you can make it work.  It doesn't really say anything other than: 'it's not useless'.  Did the PSG do anything for you that a similar weapon couldn't do?  Were you ever glad you had the PSG instead of something else?  Considering you weren't buffing, I'd be surprised if a little extra AR would make up for the gold tracer's range (not to mention better bleed buildup).

    Soul of Stray Demon wrote:Actually the R2's on the Flamberge do amazing poise damage and knockback. If you hit with them, it's quite useful. Although yeah, because of how slow it is, the bleed on it is pretty much useless.
    Rynn wrote:You've got the superior moveset of a greatsword, with the stunlocking capacity of a Curved Greatsword. The Flamberg is IMO the best greatsword because of this.
    How much poise do the R2s drain on the flamberge?  R2 poise damage seems to be the last frontier in Dark Souls science.  I've seen a few odd poise breaks for some strength weapon R2s.  I was under the impression that unique R2 poise breaks were a feature of certain strength weapons and that for all greatswords (and curved greatswords) poise break depended only on whether you were using 1 hand or 2, not attack type (other than running).
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    Post by Rynn Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:01 pm

    The R2 of the flamberge drains 53 poise. It's literally identical to a curved greatswords R1. You have 2 R1's essentially. The big thing is the curved greatsword swing does 50% more damage on average: so you're stunlocking with the R2, doing more damage per hit than a curved GS, while building up bleed (which is useless, but panics the opponent)
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    Post by Zeta Prime Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:25 pm

    Idk if I read this right.. but hugh did you say that the R2 suck for both the flamberge and the curved greatswords? If so, I think I must disagree


    I may have never used the Flamberge, but I knew my murakumo fairly well.. and the 1 handed R2 is tits. The step forward and that swipe arch is gonna help with some hits.. and if it's a miss they got nowhere to go but backwards giving you the offensive.

    I must say that I have never used the PGS but I can imagine it being a pretty usefull weapon if paired correctly. just some ides could be using a shield to get closer to your opponent or using the homing soulmass spell to give you the direct offensive charge.. with some poise I can see this working very well.
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    Post by reim0027 Sat Oct 05, 2013 9:27 pm

    Speaking of tanking it up and spamming R1 with the PGS or GT . . . That gets me drooling. That seems to happen a lot in the Forest. I bet most people thing that is a fool proof strategy. That is until I pull my Mura out of their sternum. It is so easy to parry, since it is so bloody obvious what they are about to do. Hell, I parried a GT R1 spammer. Didn't kill him. He got up, spammed R1 again and I parried him again.
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    Post by Rynn Sat Oct 05, 2013 9:37 pm

    reim0027 wrote:Speaking of tanking it up and spamming R1 with the PGS or GT . . .  That gets me drooling.  That seems to happen a lot in the Forest.  I bet most people thing that is a fool proof strategy.  That is until I pull my Mura out of their sternum.  It is so easy to parry, since it is so bloody obvious what they are about to do.  Hell, I parried a GT R1 spammer.  Didn't kill him.  He got up, spammed R1 again and I parried him again.
    I love high poise curved sword builds. I enjoy running around in mid-roll and fat-roll builds, because it actually throws off a lot of people that don't know what to do when someone actually uses the curved sword to fight them, instead of to be a spammer.
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    Post by Juutas Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:30 am

    Hugh_G_Johnson wrote:
    Juutas wrote:PGS is definitely viable PvP weapon, that is what I meant to say (wasn't it obvious though, haha big grin)
    @ Juutas: Yeah, but viable just means that you can make it work.  It doesn't really say anything other than: 'it's not useless'.  Did the PSG do anything for you that a similar weapon couldn't do?  Were you ever glad you had the PSG instead of something else?  Considering you weren't buffing, I'd be surprised if a little extra AR would make up for the gold tracer's range (not to mention better bleed buildup).

    Soul of Stray Demon wrote:Actually the R2's on the Flamberge do amazing poise damage and knockback. If you hit with them, it's quite useful. Although yeah, because of how slow it is, the bleed on it is pretty much useless.
    Rynn wrote:You've got the superior moveset of a greatsword, with the stunlocking capacity of a Curved Greatsword. The Flamberg is IMO the best greatsword because of this.
    How much poise do the R2s drain on the flamberge?  R2 poise damage seems to be the last frontier in Dark Souls science.  I've seen a few odd poise breaks for some strength weapon R2s.  I was under the impression that unique R2 poise breaks were a feature of certain strength weapons and that for all greatswords (and curved greatswords) poise break depended only on whether you were using 1 hand or 2, not attack type (other than running).
    I say this much: I would've not been able to pull it off with all the weapons in the game.

    The fast bleed came handy at times and it is very easy to dead angle with PGS if you dare to go close enough and keep on the heat.

    The R2 attacks also have great potential on throwing people off and I've noticed that the parry timing is pretty wonky on those as well.

    Lastly the damage is GREAT and because people underestimate the weapon (because it looks like a butter knife) they are often surprised by the fast dmg this weapon can deal.

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