I can't say I'm against forest farmers

Ganking is a pretty common problem in Pvping, but I can't say I feel sorry for most victims in the forest covenant. I'd say guessing about 90% of the members of that damned covenant are guilty of ganking their fair share of people with their fellow members, and the majority of them, in my experience, aren't above running off behind NPC enemies to use a humanity.

Anyone who whines about being ganked in forest invasions should have the sense to go somewhere else where either side might be motivated to play fair.

I kind of figure if Forest Hunters do that its more a reaction to having been ganked because they are pissed that they get killed like that and start to see gankers everywhere.

I'm guilty of doing that when I see a guy and a phantom who probably wereny ganking or if I kill a phantom and need to go after the host. I don't think I ever specifically avoided a single host until a phantom showed up and if one did I'd back off to let them fight the new guy.

But I'm probably just selectively remembering these things and repressing all the horrible things I did to people in the forest.

Finally someone speaks up. Its no wonder most forest pvpers summon a buddy when if they don't they have to fight off two blues who have no problem backstabbing you into oblivion. Neither side fights fair.

I'll duel if the host wishes. I've actually met 2 duelers so far. But it can be a vicious cycle, I have seen a lot of fellow hunters who want me to join them in wasting a lonely host. I tend to let them have the fun as I watch from the sidelines, and I'll only jump in if the host attempts to summon.

I'm against Griefing in all forms.

Tolvo wrote:I'm against Griefing in all forms.

Well that's all well and good. If only the other 80% of the forest population felt the same way.

If you don't have a phantom with you in forest as the host: Sooner or later, you will get ganked.

I despise gankers as well, but there's no place for preaching such concepts in a place like the forest.

the forest is lawless, thats about it, do what mildred does and just carry your personel set of morals with you anywhere and everywhere and hold to them despite ganking etc.

Yes I do get ganked while hosting the forest, but only a small fraction of the time, usually people wait their turns and duel me instead. As well sometimes when a DW or Blue Phantom interferes with a fight to try and gank me in the middle of it the phantom I'm fighting helps me kill them, then we heal up and continue our fight. I find invaders to be far kinder and nicer people in general in the forest rather than hosts.

I keep my honour and cheerful attitude with me as long as others are as well. I don't even BS in duels, though I do understand if others do it so I won't all of the sudden kill them for BS'ing me, unless they're BS'ing fishing in which case I will punish them. Farmers though, are scum. When I see them, the rules are out the window, and I kill them typically.

TL:DR, Farmers are scum. Always have been, always will be. Personally I hold modders in higher regards than them.

What's wrong with farming? Farming by definition simply means to use pvp as a means to gain souls. Pvp is the quickest way to power level short of cheating. Nothing wrong with gaining xp from pvp in my book.

But its how you gain those souls.

Invasions are just as much a part of the game as co oping and as such spending 99 percent of your time making it a misery for people to invade defeats the purpose of one of the games larger aspects.

I would be fine if it was a 3v1 where they let me actually get a foot hold before they attack, even if it is simply to find out where they are, so that if it comes down to it I can't fault them or myself for doing something tacky.

However its the fact that they stand right at your spawn point in a ring an twop/stunlock, WoG spam the hell out of you before you even have the capacity to move.

Everyone hates it when that happens most of all the gankers.

I invaded a guy who did it to me. Then was inavded by the guy again, seemed he was the only one on at the time, as such i took a calculated risk and summoned two phantoms (sunbros lol) and stood in a ring around where the DW spawned. Winner. I got him to drop in again and taught him how it felt to be really ganked. Twop, standing in a circle so he couldnt move, heavy two handed weapons, and then a WoG spam.

The hate I got after that was forwarded on to my two sunbros who loled and felt happy that they taught someone else a lesson.

Recently I played on both sides, so these are my experiences. I have to tell beforehand that my PvP skills are just average, not too bad or too good.

- As a forest hunter, 90% of the times I invade 1 host + 1 phantoms. When the host is alone he promptly summons someone to help. They ALWAYS fight me 2v1, most of the times BS fishing all the time. I have a lot of lag issues in the forest so I almost always get lagstabbed in this case.

- Yesterday I wanted to go for Sif with a friend, so I enter the forest as a human and I obviously got invaded in 0.1 seconds, by 2 hunters. My friend's sign was nowhere to be seen so I summoned a sunbro to help me survive the raid. This guy was a pro in tracking and killing any invader within seconds from the messages, it kinda scared me. Instead, I noticed most of the invaders were low levels and very inexperienced.

So, I think the disparity comes with the fact that most farmers are pros and very good at farming without mercy, while most hunters are inexperienced players (this covenant is indeed available easily at the early stages of the game).

- a bit off topic, but I find more annoying the farmers at Dark Anor Londo. Instead these days I like very much PvPing at the arena in the painted world, maybe because I'm experiencing almost no lag issues, but the duels are usually very fair and fun :o

Sadly the painted world is seeing an increase in farmers, if it continues I might find myself in the priscilla thread talking tactics of how to slaughter them haha, actually I forgot, I'm supposed to be posting tactics in the Dark Moon thread for Anor Londo, whoops.

EDIT: As well in regards to forest hunters being unskilled, it's very true. There are new members who join that cov, and just have no idea. It's their first PvP experience, and often it's so sour it scares them right away from it. Only a few of us really get a taste for the underdog fights, but boy do we enjoy them. Because of this when I host I keep base weapons on hand and if I notice a person is a more green hunter, I merely spar with them until they eventually kill me, I don't just let them kill me though. They have to earn it, and if they can't kill me while I use a base weapon hopefully they learned something. I usually mark down their name and whenever I finally die I send them a message talking about the Glory Thread, and offering them advice which some take and some ignore. It's always enjoyable though to see new players, gives me quite a warm feeling really.

Farmer this farmer that people act like they don't intend to gain souls when conducting pvp. If you're invading or waiting to host an invasion with the intent of gaining souls for that extra level or upgrade then you're using pvp to farm souls. Stop talking as if that's a bad thing.

I PvP for the sake of doing PvP. Forest Farmers are also people who merely wait in a group to gang up on invaders, which falls underneath the lines of Griefing/Bullying. Actually a lot of forest farmers don't do it for the souls, they do it to Grief as mentioned. They wish to ruin the experiences of others, as such I'm out to ruin theirs and destroy them. As Forum has mentioned, I'm sort of like a Darkmoon in the Forest, punishing the guilty and trying to help out the innocent.

yeh thats a big problem people farming without a reason...i farm on my new toons to get my sl to 120 in no time...i also destroy farmers on my fh toon when i feel like it...i dont realy care for farmers without them my fh wouldent hv a job btw Zer wts yr avatar from

I've seen a lot of threads complaining about farming and I don't ever recall a complaint that someone was out to get souls. Complaints are for griefing tactics. Thanks to Tolvo's and Brokewilly's enthusiasm I've been caught up as a Forest Hunter too and the original post has some validity. There's a LOT of hunters who won't fight alone. I can't tell you the amount of times I've backed off in the middle of a duel because a second invader came in tried to jump the guy in the middle of our fight. The best was when the other hunter was so mad at me he ran over and started chopping at me with his greatsword. I've even engaged in 2v1 but only on persons I caught griefing (since the word "farming" could just mean getting souls). Getting back to the original post though, I would agree that hosts aren't as bad except I've seen different. While there are plenty of hunters who try to backstab or jump a lone host I can still classify these as (relatively) isolated incidents. However, I can't begin to count the number of hosts with phantoms in which both:
a) spam the spawner,
b) both run right at me (when I'm alone) as fast as possible to avoid a 2v2,
c) have one (or more) phantoms hiding to backstab
d) attack while bowing (or run in to try since I bow from a distance)
e) see a lone hunter bow to fight and run away to summon as many phantoms as possible and then run off to give them spawn time

In about a month of steady hunting I would say that between 75% to 85% of fights were of these kind while less than half involved hunters doing similar things (again, many hunters do these things too just not as statistically high in my experience). Then to top it off, you'll see these guys time and time again if you stay in the same lobby. And if by chance you catch one alone it's obvious that they've never been interested in a duel. I have literally chased a person to the cliffs nipping at them all the way until they finally decided a cliff death was better than actually standing and fighting. This same person with two phantoms was amazingly fast at running into battle the first few times I invaded. There's a lot of similar stories I could share. So getting back to the original idea again, if these are people who want a fair fight and just summoned a phantom for insurance to not get jumped themselves, they don't act like it.

Two final thoughts,
First, with regards to the difference between farming and griefing and complaints about farming, look at the source. If someone says I can't believe I invaded and the host was just waiting for me so he could kill me! That's not a valid complaint. Even if the person is hosting repeatedly to get souls. If he's good enough to collect, good for him. If you hear, I can't believe that host was waiting with two phantoms and they all rushed me before I could spawn. You don't have to agree with the complaint but it's valid. Those people ARE just trying to ruin someone else's game.

Second, it's their right to grief/farm and play the game their way since it's part of the mechanics and they (presumably) paid for their disc too. But we're still gonna get 'em!

Actually it might be a reportable offense, certain companies will ban people for what could be considered rude behavior, but I'm pretty sure that would either fall upon the Sony/Microsoft, or From Software. And I kind of feel like From would probably really have no idea about it really.

I like my 2/3v1s.

It's always funny to see the host freaking out after you killed his phantoms.

Gol wrote:I like my 2/3v1s.

It's always funny to see the host freaking out after you killed his phantoms.

It's amazing when the host runs back to the stairs, can't find a summoning sign, and jumps off the cliff.

I mean really? You're not even going to try to fight 1v1?

Every time I see them do that suicide jump when facing me I just imagine in my head them pointing at me and saying.

"You can't fire me, I quit!"

Then they jump to their death.

Tolvo wrote:Every time I see them do that suicide jump when facing me I just imagine in my head them pointing at me and saying.

"You can't fire me, I quit!"

Then they jump to their death.

My thought is you can't have 2v2 w/out some 2v1's. I LOVE having 2v2 fights and enjoy going against a 2v1 as well. The only problems I have w/ 'farmers' are when they spawn attack you, everything else is fair game IMO. It's just a different PvP experience.

If every zone was only for duels I would get incredibly bored, so I like the no holds barred attitude that surrounds the forest, and to a lesser extent, Dark Anor.

I just started a new character yesterday. I wanted the Dingy Skirt so I let Lautrec kill Anastacia. I haven't done that in a while. You know what happened when I invaded him? Bastard ganked me! 3 v 1!!! I'm reporting it to Fromsoft.

Gank 'em back. You and 20-30 of your friends should do it. Poison arrows are my friends.

Calli - you are reporting someone just for ganking you? I understand your frustration, but don't waste your time. This happens in every pvp game. You need to get used to it. Just don't let it drag you down to their level. Continue to fight with honor, or else the gankers win.

Farming isn't bad. I'll farm souls by hosting. I've got millions of souls from hosting, especially in the burg. Farming when you are jumping others is bad.

As far as the environment in the Forest, the ganging up on invaders isn't necessarily bad. It can be invigorating to take down 2 or 3 people at a time. Learning the environment and manipulating it and your enemies, luring them into a trap, etc. So, that IMO isn't bad.

I tried invading there and fighting like that (2 or 3 vs me). It was fun at first, but I got sick of it. It wasn't how I wanted to play. So, I left and never went back.

TL;DR Jumping is bad, no matter how you slice it. Farming by jumping is bad. 3 vs 1 or 2 vs 1 isn't bad, in the right light.

my $0.02