Is It Time to Raise the Level Cap?

Disclaimer: I'm under the assumption that the 60/120 caps were set prior to patch 1.04 when soul drops were boosted.

Jolly Co-op is probably my favorite feature of this game. But after farming Twinkles, Chunks, and some Larges, I'm SL120 on NG with the Hollow, Ash Lake, Catacombs, ToG, and the Kiln left to go. I always try to spend my souls before heading into dangerous areas. But even after sinking a ton into things like Dragonslayer Arrows, I end up having a bunch for leveling.

Now I'm at the point where I'm Co-oping with folks on NG+ or better, if I can find anyone at all. Is it time to recognize the greater availability of souls and adjust SL expectations upward to account for it?

The level "cap" isnt decided based on soul availability. Instead its a player decided breakpoint where builds remain unique and variable isntead of getting into that jack of all master of none area. When you start having 40/40/40 of stats with 1500+ health, characters start losing flavor and are all too similar. Try co-oping at different times, i find the most populated times to be very late at night until very early morning.

Also, try different areas that are more appropriate for high levels. I'm no expert in co-op, but Tomb of the Giants should be good for high levels, or basically any lord area, for that matter.

New Londo is another high level area, I see a lot of action there.

What's so bad about 200-220 as a SL cap?

The issue is just builds and styles becoming way to generalized. But I wouldn't outright say there's anything bad, for certain Cov's like Darkmoon and Forest Hunter that wouldn't affect invasions much, as well there is an SL200+ fight club that Greengoblin is setting up, which people should check out if they have very high level toons. But with how things are, at SL120 you will find the most action.

Tolvo wrote:The issue is just builds and styles becoming way to generalized. But I wouldn't outright say there's anything bad, for certain Cov's like Darkmoon and Forest Hunter that wouldn't affect invasions much, as well there is an SL200+ fight club that Greengoblin is setting up, which people should check out if they have very high level toons. But with how things are, at SL120 you will find the most action.

I can still get hits on a regular basis with a SL 130 character. The higher your level the higher your chances of getting invaded are.

Because you'll probably be connecting with SL120 people.

Which then begs the question why SL 120 & not SL 130 or 140? If everyone is SL 120 then wouldn't it make more sense to be SL 121 so you'd have a higher chance at getting invaded by them since you'd technically be a higher level?

You connect with people you're own level first, then as a Darkwraith it goes upwards. If people start doing that the scale will escalate over time and get to ridiculous levels, meaning a new person into PvP might have to grind to level 300 eventually. As well, if everyone is the same level it makes things far more interesting. On a plus side as well, they can then compete in FC, which doesn't allow over-levelled toons to keep things as balanced as possible. I think their cut off is SL125.

In areas like Burg & Depths I find that I got invaded more at SL 130 when compared to SL 120. While in places like Painted World I found I got invaded less at SL 120 & above & more like around SL 80(?forget exact SL).

Also I don't understand why people pvp in blighttown since it's a required area & blighttown has some of the biggest lag/framerate issues when compared to any other area in the game.

The painted world can be a bit finicky, but the Burg is a place you can find PvP generally. I typically don't get invaded in the Depths, but there have been days where I just see a lot of action then a week of nothing down there.

When traveling to the depths I found that got invaded constantly when farming rats for humanity. Exit bonfire room make a right kill the first two groups of rats then run back to the bonfire. Last time I was doing that I'd get invaded once per run.

Burg is a nice place to pvp as well since the monsters are weak, the terrain is diverse in that there are sniper vantage points, & you almost never get jumped if doing the invading yourself.

As mentioned its all about viable areas for unique builds, basically you should consider it the lowest possible level for the largest diversity of builds. Anything above will mean that the characters diverge to the same stats/same skills.

60-70 is basically melee/elemental builds since you dont need to spend any skill points in stat scaling or magical stats. anything above 100 means that you reach areas where stat scaling gets better and is thus more often paired with buffs which means faith/int stats as well.

It is all in what you want to do in the game. If you like to co-op then you should stay in the sweet spot range(anywhere from SL 20-80 depending on where you like to co-op most at) for players on NG and not so much people on NG+ and beyond because those higher level players are typically burning through levels for certain items or to just simply open up the area they like to pvp at. Because lower level players are usually the ones stuggling with a level or don't have the right weapons to deal with certain enemies. I for one will summon whenever I see a sign just because I love joy cooperation and to see if this player can teach me a new method for a boss or traversing the level.

If pvp is what your looking for then I both feel your pain and understand the need for an unofficial level cap. If players continue to level then it can become harder and harder to find consistant pvp and because players become more universal builds. If you are stuggling to find pvp action then I'd suggest either joining the darkmoons since they typically invade people lower than them or for continious action join the forest hunters. I had a build that was level 250 and got invasions everytime I put that ring on regardless of time of day.

I would even go back to say that the current PVP level cap of 120 is too high. I believe prime PVP is around SL60 to SL80. That way you can pretty much have 1 stat at 50 while the rest ones are in the 20s/30s.

kiwi_commander wrote:I would even go back to say that the current PVP level cap of 120 is too high. I believe prime PVP is around SL60 to SL80. That way you can pretty much have 1 stat at 50 while the rest ones are in the 20s/30s.

I personally like 120 because those 40-60 levels typically translate to mean more Vit. Glass cannon builds are fun, but I'd rather fight where I can give and take more than 1-2 hits.

Rassa wrote:The level "cap" isnt decided based on soul availability. Instead its a player decided breakpoint where builds remain unique and variable isntead of getting into that jack of all master of none area. When you start having 40/40/40 of stats with 1500+ health, characters start losing flavor and are all too similar..

there's very little variety at 120 anyways. everyone has the same gear, wears the same 4 rings, uses the same 5-6 weapons, etc.

my highest level toon is 153 (zero poise/no flip ring) and i get plenty of co-op and PVP action.

exandroide wrote:

Rassa wrote:The level "cap" isnt decided based on soul availability. Instead its a player decided breakpoint where builds remain unique and variable isntead of getting into that jack of all master of none area. When you start having 40/40/40 of stats with 1500+ health, characters start losing flavor and are all too similar..

there's very little variety at 120 anyways. everyone has the same gear, wears the same 4 rings, uses the same 5-6 weapons, etc.

my highest level toon is 153 (zero poise/no flip ring) and i get plenty of co-op and PVP action.

That's not the level caps fault, it's the people making the same Str/Dex/Fth builds over and over again.

the highest i have ever gone is sl130 and it was my first character. i have different saves a sl10,sl40,sl80,sl120 i also am a shut in besides when i go to work lol.

@ the OP the reason why what your suggesting is wrong is because the assumption you make in your post is technically wrong. Yes the level caps were set before 1.04 but they were never set according to soul drops from enemies, therefore the increase in the amount of souls dropped does not have any effect on the level caps.

Fair enough.

Though I can understand the desire to keep the cap low to encourage variety, anecdotal evidence suggests that pvp boils down to BS spam, WotG spam, or Pyromancy spam. There seem to be "bests" in armor, weapons, and magic, and builds tend to be homogeneous as a result.

Either way, my premise was false, so I shouldn't expect changes anytime soon. It's no biggie, and thanks all for setting me straight without being jerks. 8)

Have you tried fight club? Or russian roulette? A lot of invaders just care for winning and so do anything to win. Most people at the forum enjoy the challenge of a pvp duel over just winning. In the organised events you will see more variety.

I have zero interest in pvp, and I'll usually DC if I get invaded. I love co-op, though.

pvp isn't so bad once you get the taste of your first pvp victory. But I can understand raising it for co-op. In that case I would suggest setting up a few different toons at different sl's and in different spots to co-op in