Test My Lore

What is 'humanity' and what is the darksign really?

Yup.....Priscilla is the famous crossbreed but methinks she has a brother in the mix. One has to wonder what Gwyn thought of this prototype of Seath's. Oh yeah......he raised him as a female, made him feel inferior in the family and left him. Gwyn's family is like three Jerry Springer episodes mashed together. With all of Logan's research to finally find Seath's weakness it makes me think that maybe Gwyn though Seath was too powerful to stop. Wonder what he woulda done if he knew about that crystal

Serious_Much wrote:What is 'humanity' and what is the darksign really?

Humanity is a fragment of the dark soul, the fourth lord soul found by humanity's ancestor, the furtive pymgy and the most powerful soul. The darksign is a mark, which can be deliberately inflicted on humans, which causes them to resurrect at focal points of humanity (bonfires), at the cost of humanity, their souls and eventually, their sanity. It came into being as the power of the flame dwindled due to Gywn's soul, although being immensely powerful, eventually failing to keep the fire lit (due to hislack of humanity).

Humanity? Possibly the left over remnants of the Lord Soul of the Pygmy, or the Dark Soul in other words. This being along with the idea that he is the original ancestor of humanity, meaning he passed it on to all of his/her descendants.

The dark sign is related to the fire of the kiln isn't it, as the reason for the undead are the many bonfires correct? So maybe it's sort of a curse for going against the natural order of the world, in an attempt to make immortality, humanity, and the gods themselves last longer than might be intended. I'll admit I haven't done much research on the Dark Sigh, Acidic probably has a way better idea of it than me.

I think Priscy is Seath's ultimate weapon against the Gods. Maybe left Anor Londo because they feared her? Why didn't Gwyn killed her? Is Gwyn so thankful to Seath that he even permitted Priscilla to be kept alive, but locked in the Painted World? WTF?

Humanity's an area I haven't though much about either but I'm pretty sure it's actually rat food.



I see the "locked away" theory a lot but I tend to not believe it:

The doll is the only real story piece about what happened. The first thing I'll point out is the word "clutched." I believe we can all agree it was her doll......
The words "held," "grasped," "possessed" etc. would have also sufficed to establishing ownership. "Cherished" would have worked to convey a sense of emotional attachment. Clutched is a word of desperation. I believe the doll was the only thing Priscilla could count on and love and be there for her. In her loneliness, the doll was her desperate plea for love. The "odd dress" spoken of in the description seems to hint at Priscilla's dress. This means the doll was the only thing in existence like her, suggesting an even deeper connection (and why it's the key to get in). Also, the doll says the "abomination" was "drawn in" to the painted world. The use of the word "abomination" rather than "crossbreed" is likely meaningful. A liger is a crossbreed. Not meant to be, but still with a place and even thought well of (at least by Napoleon Dynamite). The monkey frogs from Beerfest are an abomination. Unwelcome even to their creator. This enhances the idea of loneliness for Priscilla. "Drawn in" could have a hidden meaning (I'll add at the end) but the concept is she was pulled into the world.....not pushed. My theory is that out of loneliness, her imaginary world became real. Then it became so real she was literally drawn in. So the painted world could have just been a commissioned painting until her imagination made it more.

Secret "drawn in" meaning.....maybe the only friend she had was Ariamis, who, knowing the truth about the painted world agreed to literally "draw" her into the painting so she could escape the loneliness of her given existence. As there's other things in there that appear foreign to the painting this could be a real possibility

I have read through this thread, and here are my responses/ideas What do you guys think?

1. Are there any hints that Andrei is the first-born of Qwyn? If so, how many? And what are they? I haven't really seen any *shrug.*
However, as you all probably know, there are multiple hints towards Solaire being his son. My favorite being his NAME. Sol. Sun. Aire. Heir. The heir to the sun? I actually haven't heard anyone else mention this clue, though I am fairly new to the Lore of Dark Souls. Like, I looked into it 2 weeks ago haha!

2. I do think that the physical humanity are fragments of the Dark Soul which could be considered to be the most powerful, considering it's what fuels the flames and there are a bunch of humanity sprites left, possibly an infinite number if you want to farm that long. But maybe it really isn't more "powerful." Is a forost more "powerful" than a forest fire? If you're thinking about it in a destructive sense, then no. If you're thinking about it in long term sense, then yes. But maybe all of the souls are the SAME. They were just used differently. Qwyn had a Lord Soul, and used it to make more fire and try to be the "hero." The Witches, at least Izalith, wanted to recreate the first flame with her lord soul. (I believe. Am I mistaken?) The 3rd Lord Soul was given to the Four Kings, proving that a soul can be split. The furtive pygmy wanted to do the biggest and most everlasting. He planted a "forest." He split it up into a million teeny sprites "called humanity." They're simply used for Humans who've become undead (I don't really have any idea how the undead came to be) to then become human, and keep their humanity. It was possibly the greatest gift to his kind: the humans.

3.I think each of the boss souls are the souls they've acquired and formed into themselves to LEVEL. And the souls you get from killing them are the souls they had to spare. Hmm? Another theory to the subject #2 is that maybe there were just simply souls. Then some humans acquired enough to become a "lord" or, in current Dark Souls terms, a "boss," and then the lords were killed, and their boss souls were used in the whole story-line we all know and love. One cool thing is that Dragons don't drop a boss soul. They drops souls, but not a singular boss soul. I was thinking only beings who were once human could make a boss soul. This would imply that Moonlight Butterfly was once a human. And that really could be true. Maybe one of Seath's experiments was making humans into those butterflies. Are there any bosses that drop boss souls that were not human at one point?

4. Painted world. I think the painted world was made to simply banish anything that could threaten the Gods. Priscilla. Some other stuff. But, I think Velka was banished there. There was going to be a covenant related to Velka which would be very similar to the Dark Moon Covenant, but it was cut. The crowpeople you see in the painted world occasionally drop the items you need to be in the dark moon covenant. So, I think, as ENB has said, that Velka was trying to right a wrong a God had done. I think a God broke a covenant, and Velka was like "THERE'S HELL TO PAY!" Then all the other Gods were like "Maybe we should lock her up." And she was. Then she died in the painting, or went insane, or whatever happened to her. Thoughts?

@Joe

1. https://soulswiki.forumotion.com/t2473-the-god-of-war Lots of ideas, I personally think it is Andre. Solaire it's just too obvious.
2. The director confirmed in an interview that humanity are the fragments of the Dark Soul.

3. Most bosses that are related to humans drop Humanity (ie. Four Kings drop 4 humanity).

4. I agree with you on that, I think they imprisoned the followers of Velka (the Occultists) in the Painted World. My other theory is that Velka transformed into a dragon using the ancient rite.

Edit: Most Chaos Demons drop humanity too, as the Flame of Chaos grows stronger with humanity (like the bonfires, pretty nice work there Witch of Izalith).

I just don't see Andrei being the son of Qwyn simply because he's too old. He looks like he's the same age as Qwyn. I think Qwyndolyn and Qynovere are both younger looking. Though, I can't be sure, since Qwyndolyn wears a mask and Qynovere is an illusion, but the first-born can't be THAT much older.
And it may seem obvious to us because we're looking for it. Idk. I think it's a main part of the lore, and they want the people who are simply fighting for their lives to possible find it, so they make it a bit more obvious.
Imagine, you're running for your life, trying not to die, you find a friend who shows you how to find other friends. THANK GOODNESS! You then use that to help get along and become stronger. You become so strong, you get past Sen's Fortress. You then find a clue about Qwyn's long lost sun. Oh! It has to be that guy who helped you! He was SOO NICE! And he continues to help you! Plus, you talk to him in person at the same area you find the ring! The ring that strengthens miracles. Miracles that Andrei doesn't use if you attack him.... I think.

Stop it. use Gs, not Qs.

They said that they were going to make Andre to be a descendant of Gwyn, and was suppose to be an important part of the story, but the idea was scrapped.

You do understand the god of war has been around for over a thousand years right? Andre also has a similar model to Gwyn, as well there was cut content in which he opens the door to the Kiln for you, who else has been inside the Kiln before? The god of war, and it was said that he was supposed to be a descendant of Gwyn but that content got cut from the game so it didn't matter any more. So it seems like he was intended to be the god of war, but they cut the content.

So, they pretty much out and said Andrei is the God of War? Why are we discussing this in terms of "I believe?"

No, they said they scrapped the idea.

Did they scrap the idea completely or the extra allusions to it?

I think they only scrapped the idea of him opening the Kiln, but I'm not sure if they scrapped the idea of him being the God of War.

That's what I was thinking. There's obviously still allusions to the God of War so SOMEBODY has to be it (although they don't necessarily actually have to be in the game). Why not keep it the guy that was a perfect fit before?

They maybe just thought it was better if there never is an answer, that the fans just keep seeking and form their ideas about it. That might have been their intention, I know I do that with a lot of my own writing and I'm sure From is more than capable of it.

From would never let us fill in the blanks due to vague stories and the like........

You know, their was one knight who was put into the game near the very end of it's development.

He also has a special model for his face.

Ok, there was more than one. I forgot about Solaire.

Solaire also has armor with a bit of similar design to the Great Lord set, especially in regards to the Bracers. There's just too many possibilities.

The thing that I can't understand. Is the statue of the Sunlight Altar an image of the God of War or of Gwyn (younger version). Because the statue has the Great Lord Robes, that's clear.

Just some random thoughts I got from reading the thread
@Skare Gwyndolin was raised as a daughter cause he was associated with the moon, and the moon cannot be a man. The sun is too busy doing that.
Also how did the peculiar doll get out of the painted world? My best guess is Oscar and Tarkus got it out. Oscar lost it in the asylum where some hollow picked it up and carried it to your cell where he died.
@Joe that boss souls are soul of special beings and were either formed because they were so strong or given like Ornstein's (and possibly Sif's). As Tolvo said the god of war would be at least a 1000 years old, he should look like his dad by now.
When the designers scrapped Andre as the God of War they may have forgotten the stuff they put in their alluding to him/time constraints may have made it impossible to take out.
Why were the mustached men only added at the very end?

I hear ya on the item description for Gwyndolin but the moon connection doesn't seem to be the whole story I don't think. I like to think there's some family psychology in there too (since that's my background I think that about everything though).

That'd be cool if one of favorite knights got the doll out. It had to be someone who made it back to the Asylum so Oscar seems likely. I kinda thought she left it behind when she was pulled in. Perhaps she dropped it in shock or gave it to someone. Maybe even left it in the hope someone filled with love would find it and make their way to her. My only question if a knight recovered it though is how did they get into the painting?