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    Question to people that are actively in PVP

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    Post by MsCherryBlossom Sun May 13, 2012 5:17 pm

    Today I was playing in the Undead Burg with my low level toon on NG+ and I was invaded. I used Chameleon and hid and let the guy run past. I ran to him and instantly BS him with a hornets ring. Easy kill and went on, I then got a message from the guy saying I was being "dishonorable" on PVP. (Keep in mind im playing the game not really planning to PVP to begin with) I do understand the argument of staying hollow to avoid invasions, but I don't like looking like one of those naked enemies from Fallout 3. And I accept being invaded to be part of me being in human form.

    Anyway, I continue playing and he invades again and this time he bows to me. (Id also add I DO NOT participate in PVP events or play to PVP.) So when he does it I Chaos Fireball him and keep going. And of course get another hate mail.

    I just wanted to know other opinions on this kind of situation, because I as stated before don't play for PVP. I like just playing through the game since it's one of my favorite titles I own. Should one abide by the unwritten honor code even when they're not actively engaging in PVP events or looking to PVP?
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    Post by Maneater_Mildred Sun May 13, 2012 5:24 pm

    Its upto you how you play and they did invade your world so feel free.

    However a little bit of class goes a long way so a simple bow before you fight, or atleast wait untill they are done bowing before you attack will show true style and honor.
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    Post by Wade_Wilson Sun May 13, 2012 5:25 pm

    It's a grey area. As of late, the Kiln of the Flame has become over-run with gankers/griefers which removes the option to say, "If you wanna do proper PvP go to the kiln." As such, the undead burg has become the new unofficial hotspot for honourable PvP, but it also has it's share of assholes. Really, if you get invaded randomly just do whatever. At the end of the day, the invader is still there to kill you and you are still there to repel him.
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    Post by MsCherryBlossom Sun May 13, 2012 5:30 pm

    Yeah I admit it was kinda shady to Fireball him, but at the same time I DO NOT have a ton of PVP experience and all I could do was think of what he would do to me with what looks like a Gargoyle Halberd in his hands. In fact I think I only did a legit 1v1 PVP match and I got lucky with getting a BS, and that was with my higher level toon.
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    Post by Glutebrah Sun May 13, 2012 5:56 pm

    if you are doing PVE do what ever it takes to kill him, he is an enemy, you don't bow before NPC bosses. if you are sitting in a highly populated area waiting to be invaded then you duel with honor.

    as far as using Chaos fireball when he bowed, i personally wouldn't do it, but agian if you are doing PvE all bets are off imo. unless you are standing in the "duel" zone there are no rules.

    if i invade some ones world and they are not where the duels happen i expect no honor, though i always wait to see if the host bows or runs back to the duel zone. if it looks like he is doing PvE i will usually BC out, unless im feeling like a cheekykunt
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    Post by Sebastrd Sun May 13, 2012 7:43 pm

    In my opinion, outside of FC anything goes.

    Random invaders tend to be better equipped, more experienced, and have the advantage of not aggroing enemies. Do what you have to.
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    Post by BLA1NE Sun May 13, 2012 8:59 pm

    That's the funny thing about the Burg: it's (probably) the best PvP spot in the game right now, but people really should be using their RSS rather than try invading. I love to stand there and summon red phantoms while getting invaded at the same time, but I also understand that invading will encroach on people trying to PvE.

    As for what you did, it's totally fair. You weren't there to PvP, just trying to make your way through the Burg (from the sounds of it). Just be aware that the rectangular area just before the bonfire is a PvP hotspot. So if you're not interested in PvP, try and stay clear of it. I'm sure most invaders who are looking for a duel will understand, and probably crystal out. And next time you get hate-mail for being "dishonorable" (can't be dishonorable if you're not dueling...) just explain that you weren't there to duel, they'll understand.
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    Post by MsCherryBlossom Sun May 13, 2012 9:31 pm

    BLA1NE wrote:That's the funny thing about the Burg: it's (probably) the best PvP spot in the game right now, but people really should be using their RSS rather than try invading. I love to stand there and summon red phantoms while getting invaded at the same time, but I also understand that invading will encroach on people trying to PvE.

    As for what you did, it's totally fair. You weren't there to PvP, just trying to make your way through the Burg (from the sounds of it). Just be aware that the rectangular area just before the bonfire is a PvP hotspot. So if you're not interested in PvP, try and stay clear of it. I'm sure most invaders who are looking for a duel will understand, and probably crystal out. And next time you get hate-mail for being "dishonorable" (can't be dishonorable if you're not dueling...) just explain that you weren't there to duel, they'll understand.


    I literally did that too, I told them that im just playing the game and not into the PVP thing, and he ended up ranting about how I need to play in hollow form. I didn't accept someone telling me how to play a game I spent my own money on and ended up blocking them.

    And it's funny I KINDA was near that area you said is the PVP area, I was near the area where you go down the stairs to see Havel. When I got the invaded message I left from there since I didn't want them using Havel to their advantage against me.
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    Post by BLA1NE Sun May 13, 2012 9:53 pm

    Nah, near Havel should've been fine. And we're skirting another discussion I like: invading vs dueling. I thought it was pretty obvious... but i guess not all invaders make the distinction.

    Invading: it's you forcing your way into someone else's world. Most likely, that person is only focused on getting through the area and beating the boss to move on. As an invader, I understand that, so I go out of my way to avoid killing the host in a cheap way. And I also don't mind at all if they kill me in a cheap way--they can, and pretty much have to, resort to any means necessary to kill me. If I die as an invader I lose nothing at all, so I don't care. If I kill the host, he loses the (sometimes arduous) progress he's made through the level, and a humanity.

    Dueling: two players connecting through various means, whether invading or being summoned, with the goal of having a good fight. Generally, people who duel will want to follow a code of conduct--loose unwritten rules. Such as: bowing before (and generally after) the fight, no healing, no running away behind mobs, etc.

    So there's a vast difference between invading and dueling. That's why the burg is funny: it's entirely a PvE spot, but the community's chosen it as our PvP spot, so you'll get the convergence of the two. I kind of assumed most duelers understood that some people are in the area not to duel (I mean... d'uh, no?), but I guess that's not the case.

    Anyways: keep doing what you're doing! Don't let some duelers who have their ideas about invading and dueling mixed up ruin your PvE. winking
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    Post by Imarreteet23 Sun May 13, 2012 10:08 pm

    Everything that you did is 100% fine. Essentially, the guy who invaded you is a jerk, so don't let him bother you.
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    Post by Fuzzlewhack Sun May 13, 2012 10:22 pm

    Yeah you're legit. Keep in mind that the DW covenant is of the evil, chaotic nature. In all the essence of roleplaying, if something chaotic and evil invaded your world (with the intention of killing you) then bowing, or showing any sort of respect or patience is just dumb.

    When I invade on a DW character, or if I'm invaded by a DW, I do dirty S***. Then again, I win alot of pvp battles so..
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    Post by Buggy Virus Sun May 13, 2012 10:41 pm

    You can't hit a guy mid bow.

    Period.
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    Post by DoughGuy Sun May 13, 2012 10:44 pm

    There arent that many honourable players. Try to to scar eaway the few left.
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    Post by Azran Sun May 13, 2012 10:54 pm

    Do as you wish. They are invading your world, after all. Honor is meaningless if you aren't purposely looking for PvP.
    I only bow when I invade, or when a host summons me for jolly cooperation.
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    Post by BLA1NE Sun May 13, 2012 10:55 pm

    Buggy Virus wrote:You can't hit a guy mid bow.

    Period.
    I disagree.

    If I bow first as an invader, and get hit doing it, I don't care. Clearly the host was PvEing and needed to do whatever he could to get rid of me. Admittedly, I'd have preferred him ask me to crystal out, but like I said earlier, as an invader I lose nothing so I wouldn't care.

    If an invader hits me as the host while I'm bowing, though, you can bet he'll get hate-mail, and consecutive dried-fingers until he stops invading the area (just so happened yesterday).
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    Post by bb71 Sun May 13, 2012 11:36 pm

    Yes, seriously...don't worry about how you treat an invader. Quite honestly, they should either be used to cheap shots or they should just go play Care Bears. It's not a big deal. ESPECIALLY from a Burg invader...I know; I've been doing that nonstop for weeks.

    It's taught me a bunch, really. You would think that just nonstop invading in Burg is a total noobfest, but it isn't. Is it cheap and crappy to terrorize new players? Yes - but it's also super fun. Believe me: unless you are there to pvp right on that platform before the bonfire, there is NOBODY there who should expect a fair fight. I played through the game at level seven just to be able to get the maximum fun out of Darkwraithing in Burg, and once I started doing it I was blown away by how many people are just DOUCHEBAGS in Burg (and the irony is not lost on me that I stayed at a low level just so that I could terrorize the people who have been playing the game for less than three hours). Some of them are so jerky that at first I would actually get mad at them, but then I quickly realized how ridiculous that was.

    Some days, for every one actual legitimate player, you will have A) the guy with MLGS and Darkmoon Crown waiting to gank you upon spawning, B) the dragon idiot team in the wooden shield room waiting to bow backstab you, C) the guy waiting to chaos storm you as you spawn, and D) the guy pretending to be new who runs around a corner and leads you into an orchestrated WOG ambush. Oh, and, let's not forget the Darkmoon Blades who spawn and cast HCSM or Dragon Breath or other nonsense. And none of this includes the level 120 people there hosting for legit pvp, OR the people like you who are just trying to play through the level. There are like 34 different metagames going on in the Burg at all times; seriously if some dude who invades you is all butthurt about "honor" and bowing, etc. while invading in Burg you can just laugh. He clearly doesn't know how to have fun there. But, as host, you pretty much have carte blanche to behave however you want on any level in the game; the only real jerky thing to do that crosses the line is camphosting with two phantoms all day...even that, though, is just jerky. Invaders gotta have thick skin.
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    Post by Katakato Mon May 14, 2012 8:35 am

    Like it was said before, that specific place is a PvP hot spot but you don't owe them a fair fight if they invade you.
    People have been honorably PvP-ing waaay to much forgetting that there are those who just want to progress (PVE) in the game without invaders interfering and those that like to act clever & tell you to stay hollow just ignore them, play as you like, besides they are invading on a low SL, it's their stupidity to assume all hosts will be PvP ready (want to duel).
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    Post by billy_bayonet Mon May 14, 2012 11:10 am

    all of what you said is just a very complicated way of saying this, the clue is in the name INVADER!, they invaded you fecking kill em!
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    Post by White Mamba Mon May 14, 2012 11:13 am

    Yeah anything goes against invaders when you are just going through the area. The way I look at is that if you get hate mail from an invader, you have done your job very well. If they don't like it they can GAGF.
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    Post by dirkdeadeye Mon May 14, 2012 11:17 am

    I dont expect mercy when i invade, and when someone invades me gtfo, if you bow you're gonna eat a css or get backstabbed
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    Post by Odinbear Mon May 14, 2012 11:57 am

    I just started PvP (kinda, as a phantom summoned in to help} anyway sl21 in UD Parish the other night. I get summoned, The host is pointing down so I turn around to see a red phantom, we fight I die. Come running back from the bonfire, lay down mu WSS again, get summoned into same game. This time the red phantom bows, so I bow and he BS's me.. Honor?
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    Post by billy_bayonet Mon May 14, 2012 12:04 pm

    there is no honour amongst thieves and murderers, outside of FC i do not give anyone a chance to BS me, if they bow i will flip twice then bow, i see all my invasions no matter what sl or where in the game as a fight to the death, yes i always have honour i wont turtle or bs (at all) spam spells, but just because i have honour doesnt mean they do, if they kill me and do a rude gesture ill message them a smiley face, ya never get a response then sad
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    Post by Majikero07 Mon May 14, 2012 1:43 pm

    I play it safe and don't do any gestures in pvp. I just press the shield button twice and strafe left and right a few times. It's my pre-battle taunt. Sometimes, I spin around for good measure and I make sure I'm on the maximum lock-on range. Then it's just waiting for what they do next. Some bow then buff, some shoot spells at me, some runs away to the summon location, some goes straight for a BS expecting me to do a gesture.

    Things I learned:

    Don't do gestures.
    Keep your distance.
    Convey PvP intentions with the shield and running in circles. It may look silly but who cares.
    Wait for them to act first. You can tell what kind of player they are and their intentions to you on their first action.
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    Post by MsCherryBlossom Mon May 14, 2012 1:53 pm

    The gestures thing is something I never do unless doing co-op with a friend. I seen far too many youtube vids of people getting killed while doing it. And once when I was summoned the summoner BS someone while bowing. (I even killed someone doing it as stated in my OP)

    I don't want to say I have honor or not since I never once invaded before not even on Demon's have I invaded. For me I just don't enjoy the PVP portion but somewhat do enjoy invasions if that makes any sense. I don't bow but I think I do give them a chance to get ready since I don't wait in the area where they spawn and normally it takes me a second to find them. During that time they could had gotten all their buffs and equips ready.
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    Post by reim0027 Mon May 14, 2012 2:21 pm

    For invasions when I'm questing, I don't bow unless they do, and then it is at a safe distance (safe from BS that is). I stand still and wait to see what they do. But, if there is an after, I almost always bow.

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