I know we're all for honor here but...

Well, Rynn, I beg to differ... I played Starcraft Brood War yesterday. It was ripe still with online play, over 500 online.

Ya, Ya!

TehInfamousAmos wrote:^^ It was because I used some rather profane language. I do trust you guys but in a manner I insulted you - but it was with good intent, I wasn't aware if you guys would have realized that... My Bad

It was only insulting for people who didn't argue or validate their points, so I didn't take offense

^^ TrueStory

i mainly just like that hes one of the few dks pvp people on yt who make a point of saying there is no real set of rules and that honorable play is just something a select few players choose to play like. also what he says about the people who consider themselves honorable ending up doing things that are obviously not honorable is all to true. example, spamming wrath,2vs1ing, spamming great combustion ext. they always have the argument "well you were trying to backstab me". you know how many times i was just trying to dead angle people with a katana and they spammed me with like 6 casts of wrath (of course they dont normally use it cause its not "honorable") and then they msg me saying its cause i was trying to bs them.... the list of whats "op" or cheap in this game is getting ridiculously long. i for one will be playing the game how i want.

Really didn't intend on starting an ethical debate by posting this thread. Just thought it was interesting to hear from someone's perspective who doesn't obey the unwritten honor code that the majority of us do. He backs up his points well, and is a pretty good player if you ask me. I can really understand both sides of the argument to a certain extent.

My opinion is, organized PvP was never something the FROM developers wanted to include in the souls games (no matchmaking in Demon's or Dark). Basically, if you are the invader, your objective is to basically make the player's life a living hell. If you are invaded, your objective is to do whatever is necessary to rid the invader from your world. Which makes the game so damn exciting if you are truly playing PvP in a non-designated area.

Obviously, we Dks players have a strong community of PvP players who have a set of rules established in which there is a certain protocol that must be followed every match. I just don't think we should be surprised or complain when those rules go out the window.

Rynn wrote:Hey, Rant.
Fun fact: games die, this one never was going to be an exception.

thanks for enlightening me about that. but do you want it to die in less than a year? cause i dont.

FruitPunchNinja wrote:i normally agree with you rant, but why do you say he abuses lag to bs? i like his outlook, he doesnt really attack anyone when they bow he usally just pokes them or wacks them with a catalyst(which is more of a joke then actual dmg). also i can see why he gets so offensive in his videos and messages cause tons of people basically troll his videos and make racist comments ext. he does say that he thinks stuff is cheap but he never says people shouldnt use stuff like dwgr and wrath.

i saw one other video of his and that's all he does, lag breaks backstabs which really sucks, it might look like a legit bs but in the other guy's world you just teleport and bs him out of nowhere, just put yourself in the other guy's shoes and see if you like getting bs'ed like that three times a a row, i know dnt like that and yeah it had nothing to do with the video posted. he also always ***** about flipping tanks when he should look at himself and realize that the cheap tactics he does are hated more tha the dwgr.

Do what you feel like doing. I have an FH that destroys anything that summons a phantom, a Kino Knight that bows to anyone, even gankers, and a massive ******* who shoots people off of bridges in Sens. Duels are great, but they aren't the aspect of the game that is the most fun for some people. I PERSONALLY enjoy them more than anything else, but only with a clearly defined set of rules and accepted tactics.

Edit: That is the longest string of asterisks I've ever seen on this site.

Quarik wrote:

Edit: That is the longest string of asterisks I've ever seen on this site.

********; that's longer

Again, my conduct is my choice, I can not reasonably expect others to follow my rules. So I don't get mad if my rules and theirs are different. I simply remember them and adjust my tactics accordingly.

As a tactic, attacking a bowing player is no different than punishing a missed attack, its taking advantage of an opening.

I bow as a sign of respect, and to give the opponent a chance to ask me to leave, but I can't fualt them for taking advantage of an opening I presented, as ultimately, its my fualt for presenting it.

He reminds me of this invader I had the unfortunate experience of PVPing with who upon invading me, bowed, and thus, I bowed in return. During my bow, he went and backstabbed me. /still bitter.

Oh I refuse to return bows all the time. I always bow after the fight but if someone bows to me and I'm the least bit suspicious (ie they're close enough to bs me or have a ranged attack visible) I just stand there or buff, maybe kick if I'm feeling like a prick, or they've attacked me while bowing before.

Forum Pirate wrote:Oh I refuse to return bows all the time. I always bow after the fight but if someone bows to me and I'm the least bit suspicious (ie they're close enough to bs me or have a ranged attack visible) I just stand there or buff, maybe kick if I'm feeling like a prick, or they've attacked me while bowing before.

Generally with me, if I invade/ get invaded by a guy who attacked me while bowing before, I usually bow the 2nd time I see them too, and they instead of doing what they did before, bow back. This happened to me a hell of a lot when I was playing, I like to think I managed to at least show them what a duel without questionable tactics is.

Most of the "Honorable Players" are Hypocrites from my point of view.

If they want battles without "cheap stuff" like Backstabbing, WoG, TWoP etc etc
Then they should go to a Fight Club that has those rules .

But on regular Play there are no set rules .Anything goes
The one thing that pisses me off are those messages
saying"YouBackstabbingspammingcheapplayer" among other things .
Again nothing is cheap .
But calling other players out for something you dont like is the most unhonorable thing one can do .

Hope i got my Point explained

-------------

Serious_Much wrote:

Generally with me, if I invade/ get invaded by a
guy who attacked me while bowing before, I usually bow the 2nd time I
see them too, and they instead of doing what they did before, bow back.
This happened to me a hell of a lot when I was playing, I like to think I
managed to at least show them what a duel without questionable tactics
is.

+1

^ +1 for Kefka

And yes, I totally agree! While it's one thing to exploit flaws in the game's technical aspects like lagstabbing and whatnot. Allowing someone to add 400 damage in a buff while you just stand there is just as bad as spamming a wotg in my opinion.

@Oniramkenobi Hypocrite is an absolute state and not subject to opinion or perspective. Disagreeing with how others do things doesn't make you a hypocrite, doing what you condem others for does. Which, by the way, is exactly what you just did.

The word is dishonorable by the way, and its a subjective term.

Bowing to an invader. Who does that nowadays? Such fools.

Time your bows to whoever you come across! It'll save your life, even IRL!

To me, it's simple, you'll get an honorable, fair duel out of me if you're looking for it. If you're a jerk, and try to resort to underhanded tactics I'll do the same and at you.

Honor is a personal thing. You do it on your own accord. Others will have their own code of honor which to you, might be dishonorable.

Majikero07 wrote:Honor is a personal thing. You do it on your own accord. Others will have their own code of honor which to you, might be dishonorable.

Finally, someone who seems to get that, thank you and +1.

Guys enough is enough, this wasn't even in the right section!

OK I have received some messages regarding why I locked the thread. Initially I was just going to move the thread to the PVP section. Then upon reading the thread, I was going to hand out several warnings, but I felt that it was more of a reflex reaction to do so after I thought about it. Constructive comments are fine, even heated discussion or arguing is fine. When it turns into flaming a particular individual, whether they are members of this forum or not, then it is bad form, creates a bad name for the forum in general (because face it, everything is searchable), and places a stigma on the members of this wiki and forum. There are other wiki's and forums that allow this kind of communications, but not here. There are also other wiki's/forums that have exponentially more rules regarding posting, while we have very few. The reason I believe that this is the #1 user based forum for Dark Souls is the community that we have here is also the best. Remember all the mods are gamers just like you. Fex, Emergence, Ublug and Baal thought it would be a great idea to create a user community for Demon's Souls and eventually Dark Souls. I stumbled upon this wiki and forum just like you did, loved it and the members here, eventually petitioning to be a mod just like the other mods. My heart and soul is in this forum and wiki, just like most of you, and the reasons why this place is as great as it is? The members and the environment that was setup to allow the community to express themselves within the rules of conduct. I am sorry if some of you do not agree with my decision to lock the thread, but I stand by my decision and would do it again, but next time I will give a better explanation...