Extinguish the bonfires. No bonfire run

I'm having some lightbulb moments as I help people past the archer in new Londo.
I can't detail them all. Just certain things regarding the distorted flow of time, and what that can mean for the differences between the various areas of the board, and the NPCs whom you encounter (which appear to be flowing in time with your character). Perhaps the view of newlondo is what the 2nd keeper of the fire is saying will assist the chosen one. That view does show that in a sense. New Londo is hen the city thrives, the undead parish is sorta as its decaying, and new Londo ruins is, well .. Ya. (for instance)
At any rate, that's aside from what is important about this particular post.

This is a bit more important for those up for the extinguish run.

As I have said previously, the summoning awards can be very helpful. When I get summoned, I have nothing to lose right? Just my position on the board. Nothing serious like souls or humanities or whatnot. I don't leave a stain. We all know the rules. Mainly for extinguish runners it means we refill on flasks and whatnot if we beat the boss. Well things are different in new Londo when you are without bosses around every corner. Since the game began the bosses have gotten further from the bonfires from which I am allowed to spawn. (firekept). There was a game changer here. This simple fact reconfirms the strategy From had in mind. This isn't by mistake.

Mmm ... Could you try to explain yourself. I kind of didn't get the Idea. Sorry, English is not my mother lenguage and I didn't get what you meqn qbout the enemies spawning further from the bonfire.
I mean, they always spwan in the same spot, don't they?

Doelker wrote:Mmm ... Could you try to explain yourself. I kind of didn't get the Idea. Sorry, English is not my mother lenguage and I didn't get what you meqn qbout the enemies spawning further from the bonfire.
I mean, they always spwan in the same spot, don't they?

Oh sorry. I meant bosses not enemies. So let me explain better because it really makes sense to me, why the extinguish theory has merit.

When I first got to firelink, which was to be my only bonfire for awhile, I was able to be summoned fairly close to a boss door. This meant that in my own world I could super easily refill on flasks and on magic and all that stuff. Thats only if I beat the boss in the summoners world. This is important because I would probably run out of that stuff, being that I was further from firelink than most normal fire linkers are.
As the game progresses, the distance between my bonfire an an actual boss door increases. So although I can still easily be summoned. I can not easily convince the summoner to go all the way to a boss, cuz he wants to sit at the freakin bonfire halfway to the boss (or he gets killed, or he banishes me). It just becomes less likely to win a boss fight in the summoners world. Therefore it becomes harder to refill flasks and all that stuff.

The fireless run MIMICS the firelinking run in that way. Which is because of the placement of the firekeepers fires. The normal firelinking way is a smaller scale version. So you know, the regions get bigger between bonfires and the games gets harder normally, and when doing it with only firekeepers, the game responds with a similar style of increase in difficulty.

Of course, the game isn't nearly as hard as the lore. Do I'm not worried, it is just that It seems so clearly intended to be this way. As if the creators of the game knew this was a way in which to play the game. If that makes sense I am not sure. I'm awfully hollow, these days.

Speaking of new londo, do you know there was a video on the special edition dvd, where the namco product manager or w/e, said something like (roughly) "we made a world where, if the player sees an area in the game, they could go explore that area". I don't know if to take that literally, or whether it was recorded way before release, but there is an area in new londo, just some structures, just across from rickety the blacksmith. and you can see some steps on the other end, across from where the darkwraith near a chest with a chunk is. the one behind the hidden wall.

New londo is like a huge cave, with one hole above, and sunlight coming in onto this place, so i died like a hundred times long jumping across at different points. thinking it was worth a try. Just now I realised there is a huge city across from the cemetery on the way to the catacombs, viewed from where you find the binoculars. I mean, why say things like that in a game so many secrets? you know i'm gonna try jumping on my free time.

Lol. Beavis you crack me up. Anything that could find some solutions to this puzzle is worth a shot!

fireLESS wrote:Lol. Beavis you crack me up. Anything that could find some solutions to this puzzle is worth a shot!

Yeah thanks fireless. Try saying "Baby Jesus, Baby Beavis" 5 times in a row

Speaking of baby jesus, have you ever noticed the many Mother+Baby statues around, a lot of them have the baby with a sword, but the one behind Frampt doesn't? (not sure where there are more of the swordless). Anyway, the baby with the sword has like a man face, but the one without, has a perfect baby face. I found that curious.

Firstly, I would like to reply to beavis by saying that I think these statues ties to the meaning behind the pendant. Which is to say, why was the record of the first born destroyed? So badly we dont even know is name. So when we explore the "newer" portions of the board (newer physically, like ruins or broken down old walls, or like the sunlight alter that was once standing so tall and is now broken to nothing), we find that the firstborn son was removed from even the sculptures. New Londo is still "older" in time, when we are in new londo (Newer in the weird, flow of time is distorted sense of the word new but older in lore time.). So the difference we see in sculptures, ROUGHLY follows this difference in age of the board. Needs scrutiny, but I think its a correct idea.
THE MEANING OF THE PENDANT: holds significance to the "deplorable" actions committed by the firstborn son (who inherited the sun). In order to make progress, we need to think about what that kid did. I really think he tried to extinguish the fires!

SOMETHING DIFFERENT, NEEDS CONFIRMATION

I got into the painted world, I was already super nervous because I knew I would be trapped in that biatch without a bonfire. I prepared, and went in as a human.
Now that I dont have a bonfire, I respawn at the bridge.
Firstly, I have not yet died in my own world. Only inside a summoners world. I ran in and started putting my sign down. I wanted to get used to the enemies round those parts, open some doors, get some items, and just know the route before proceeding in my own world. Wherein I am the only human form Im gonna be able to have in that painted world.
So get this. The first thing I notice, is that when I die inside the summoners world, I suddenly get full spears but not full flasks. I had 9 flasks. Before, outside the painted world, I would go back to my last rested bonfire and get nothing at all. I would just go back, carrying my humanity and everything. Suddenly, inside the painted world, I respawn on the bridge with full magic gifted back to me, but no flasks assistance?? So I was thinking, seems a bit odd right? What is going on here... BUT, I proceed happily because I have spears refilled. Again, I put my summon sign down. I get summoned and I die. Same result, back to the bridge with full spears again but now only 7 flasks remaining. I do this a THIRD time. Same result. I run up to place my summon sign and get this: NOT ALLOWED. The game disallowed my ability to use the summon sign. Its the same thing as when you go to an area where it cant really be placed. Such as on the turning staircase in the middle of newlondo. Or when you are knocked out on the ground. Its like grayish. It is so weird. Why cant I put this sign down?
I got scared folks, I'll be honest with ya. I went into the painted world expecting the same rules. I need to help someone beat a boss in order to refill my flasks. I ONLY HAVE 7 LEFT!!! That was something I was relying on.
The painted world freaking new it and has responded by changing the rules. I got scared and I am human, I quit the game. Cant risk the invade without knowing what is going on here. Maybe when I reboot it will go down again?
CAN ANYBODY GIVE ME INSIGHT INTO THIS STRANGENESS???

No matter how you read into this weirdness; The fact that the painted world has separated me harshly from any bonfire at all, is evidence the creators intended for us to extinguish the fires..

Someone may have been invading you. Your white soapstone actually becomes unusable prior to receiving the invasion message. So, one of two things could have caused this. Someone was invading and you quit before the invasion finalized and they appeared. Or, maybe some failed invasions occured where people were unable to connect to you on the network.

bmurn wrote:Someone may have been invading you. Your white soapstone actually becomes unusable prior to receiving the invasion message. So, one of two things could have caused this. Someone was invading and you quit before the invasion finalized and they appeared. Or, maybe some failed invasions occured where people were unable to connect to you on the network.

Thank you. This is possibly what went down. I can say that I was trying for several full minutes.

About the flasks. Its pretty simple what happened. At Anor Londo you got 10 Flasks after stting at the bonfire.
You went to the PW qnd did 't lit the bonnie and you have used already 3 flasks. That is why everytime you return you get 7. That will happen til you get less than 5. When that happens your estus will be refilled to 5... Not more.
You didn't lit the bonfire thus never kindled it ... Your standard refill is 5 and as you have 7 it can't give you more unless you have less than 5.

you can always farm humanity from the rats there to refill hp. but u'll have to jump off to make them respawn innit

Doelker wrote:About the flasks. Its pretty simple what happened. At Anor Londo you got 10 Flasks after stting at the bonfire.
You went to the PW qnd did 't lit the bonnie and you have used already 3 flasks. That is why everytime you return you get 7. That will happen til you get less than 5. When that happens your estus will be refilled to 5... Not more.
You didn't lit the bonfire thus never kindled it ... Your standard refill is 5 and as you have 7 it can't give you more unless you have less than 5.

I ended up losing all my flasks! Right before I got the hell outta there. In this situation, I was given one flask. It was actually sorta weird. Instead of saying "estus flask". It just said "flask" and it was orange. No bother anyway.

At any rate, thanks for the comments on that. I will say this: The painted world was the hardest area yet, for that very reason. I did admittedly go in there at a tad lower level than I should have. No worries though.

So I conquered the painted world. I did NOT kill that freak woman priscilla. Chick had a tail. Its just not right to kill freaks like that. Got my occult ember.
Eventually, ran back out through sens fortress to give my new ember to old boy. He was shocked by its power.

I killed S&O, no problem there. Once you open the doors, you still have a straight shot from the keepers fire. I left a note in front of that hessie. It says "Try tight spot"
Get it? Shes chilling, lookin too good to be true, as usual. Bestowed the lordvessel and everything.

Im chuggin along, slowly but surely.

The plan is to level up everything and run through collecting stuff I might have missed. The tedious stuff. Like getting all the bugs and ring and souls inside of the hollow tree... and take care of some things. Order might become important. I am more than willing to hear suggestions, everyone has been very helpful with comments. I do want to kill gwynevere and gwyndylin, bring on the night!
My thinking is that the endgame should involve a sequence of bosses to fall in a convenient order. I figure I will have to be careful with my order from here. I have a, probably bad, plan that has to do with a sequence which will kill every greedy non human fire loving punk I can find.
Anticipated order: (tentative and up for changes.) ANY reminders or any thoughtful comments for me would be helpful at this point in the carnage. Im really just taking it like the wind takes it lately. I could use some guidance. Like that spell! It might not matter much in the end unfortunately. Damn Edragon. Am I being hard on myself?


Ceaseless discharge
Nito-
Lautrec (B.E.O.)
Petrus
Four Kings
Seath
Gywnevere
Gwyndylin
Fire Keeper in New Londo
Stray demon
BOC
"my lady" witch fire keeper
E dragon, hopefully
Lord Gwyn

Should I go back and kill priscilla?
So many questions.. So much fun.

Options for warp:

Firelink Shrine
Daughter of Chaos

Interesting. I didnt expect to get Firelink, although I suppose I would not be able to warp AWAY from firelink once I appear.

Any updates Fireless ? Any new info on your run ?

Well, I'm almost 900% sure this has been tried before, simply because I feel like everything in DkS has been tried, but I've been doing some thinking about the Everlasting Dragon.

Has anyone tried taking a +5 Dragon King Greataxe 2H and using the R2? This idea occurred to me in thinking about the differences between the Gaping Dragon and the dragons of old. It's said that the Gaping Dragon is a deformed descendant of the dragons.

"This axe, one of the rare dragon weapons, is formed by the tail of the Gaping Dragon, a distant, deformed descendant of the everlasting dragons."
"The axe is imbued with a mystical power, to be released when held with both hands."

So I thought, you know, maybe this nasty descendant of the dragons possesses some inkling of their power--just enough to do damage to them.

This is, after all, the strongest dragon weapon in the game unless I'm missing out on one. Maybe 2H R2 until the durability runs out? I dunno. Just a thought.

It never hurts to try. Stupid invincible beings

My real question is... Why would a dragon act as a Firekeeper? He doesn't even have a Firekeeper Soul.
Every other firekeeper does, Anastacia, the Fair Lady, the lady darkling.
Anastacia gets killed and if you defeat Lautrec you can get her soul and keep it. And you can kill the other two to obtain their souls as well.
What is the reasson to have an everlasting dragon as a firekeeper if you can't get its soul? An how could they act as one if it's said that the firekeepers are beings filled with humanity???
It bugs me.

Maybe he isn't actually a firekeeper. He's just next to the bonfire.

We don't know if it has a firekeeper soul or not because we can't kill it. You're right though that the others seem to fit a trend that the dragon does not. At first thought I would say that the covenant ties it to humans and therefore humanity but the dragon is offered scales and not black sprites. However, the word sprite means something like a fairy. Since this differs from the more abstract idea of humanity (quality or condition) though it begs the question of the origin of humanity in game. I see a lot of discussion that humanity sprites are pieces of the pygmy's Lord Soul which I tend to agree with. However calling them sprites suggests that they are small creatures that are born of the Lord Soul and not just soul fragments. We consume these beings to increase our condition of humanity. This actually fits since the firekeeper souls have humanity writhing under their skin meaning it has the ability to move. So with all that being said, how does humanity go from the soul of a pygmy descendant to a fairy like existence? And in particular the dragon we need to kill if it is a Firekeeper. I've seen others say that the dragon might be the ultimate covenant member, a human who actually turned into a dragon rather than the mimicking we can do.

Physics final today. I neglected the class and it caught up with me. I find it interesting that when a firekeepers fire goes out (at least in the case of firelink shrine), the fire is gone. No flame. No little burning embers. Yet at the fires that I do not light and I constantly run by, these show a lil fire in there for some reason. I think the linking of the firekeepers remaining fires is keeping those embers lit in all the other bonfires. So I feel that the Edragon must be a firekeeper. Maybe he has a firekeeper soul once u kill him? At any rate. Stupid Test is in a few hours so after that I prob put some time in..

Killin em as one does. No freakin changes. I went to firelink and saw that punk lizard wife awake. He says "what is it? Place the lord vessel! No need to pause." Dudes a punk. Sorta want to free Rhea. Might try for a mission to get some of her goods before I move on to vessel nonsense.

@jorund, I had that dragon great axe with another character. It is a very nice weapon. I agree there is some story line significance. But I can't say the weapon stood out like BLAOW. That being said it wasnt an extinguish run, it wasnt NG+, and it wasn't tried on the Edragon. So not saying much here actually. An interesting idea.

Easy trip to weird library down here at pinwheel and rite of kindling. I think it was Beavis who mentioned the idea that a book could be of significance. This place is for real a library. It's devoted to books. I wish we had a solid connection to Seath (the idea of eternally lit bonfires for Gwyn), through these books. The place is drownding in books! Why!? I ask you!? Why?

Four kings wasn't too bad. I got the bequeathed lord soul shard! It still satiates regardless.
Primordial liar 2 fed me his bs. I told him no. That guy was shocked that I turned him down.

Rhea just said "vereor nox".
This means "fear the night" in Latin, I think. What she doesn't know is, I ain't never scared!

At this point, I still have not placed the lordvessel. Lautrec is dead and I have acquired another firekeeper soul. Before placing the lordvessel, I will try and clear all the other areas first, including Gwyndolin. Killing him will be an exciting time. It will turn my anor londo firekeeper against me, and let me get a dragon-killing sunspear powerup miracle. I'll darken anor londo for good. All the areas and bosses darkened and killed in that old and beautiful land.
I am a little iffy about when Rhea leaves the parish. I bought some miracles, but I left 4 (the four I already picked up elsewhere). I think I have a window of 2 or 3 boss fights before she is threatened. Im going to have to kill old boy soon. Things are going down. It is fun to play the game this way. I know that I will have to follow a cadence that will leave me with only the Edragon fire at the end. So I will be spawning there at the end of the game (if I sit down at it), as I prepare to fight Gwyn.