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    Is a no-magic build viable in PvP?

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    Post by gateslol7 Sun Jul 08, 2012 10:39 pm

    Hi guys,

    I love Dark Souls but haven't beaten it yet. My character is a pure physical warrior, no spells not even pyromancy. I started as a Warrior so I have 9 int 9 faith 8 attunement. I am level 66 right now. I just killed the four kings and became a darkwraith.

    One thing I've noticed is that I have a very hard time in PvP.

    Whenever someone uses that homing soul arrow thing it insta-gibs me. I either get invaded by twinks with tons of vit and lightning weapons or when I try to use my fancy new red eye orb I invade higher levels who have all kinds of spells that 1shot me.

    I don't have a problem with backstab shenanigans or people who don't use spells but it seems like I'm fighting an uphill battle by not getting magic in my build.

    I have 38 str, 18 dex, 22 vit, 32 endurance right now. Using Knight's armor set upgraded and an eagle shield +9 and black knight halberd +5.

    Please tell me what I'm doing wrong.
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    Post by reim0027 Sun Jul 08, 2012 10:43 pm

    No magic is very viable. I don't use magic at all. In fact, for most of my duels, I don't even buff.

    Spells are easy to dodge (the CSS can be tricky because it comes out fast). You just need to learn the timing. For a non-magic build, focus your stats on str and/or dex. Don't go over 40 in either though (unless you really want to 1H a heavy weapon). My personal favorite build is 40 str and 40 dex. I can use almost every weapon, and they hit hard.
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    Post by Carphil Sun Jul 08, 2012 10:49 pm

    gateslol7 wrote:

    Please tell me what I'm doing wrong.

    nothing. All you need is anti-magic gear and more magic defense.

    This is my 40 Str 40 Dex build: http://tinyurl.com/739tzla

    250 magic defense is not very high but enough to survive against a direct hit. Crest shield has 80% magic defense and can block any magic attack. 58 poise is enough to not be stunlocked by a Greatsword two handed R1, the Sunlight straight sword and Composite bow has C str and C dex scaling, and the bow is your main ranged attack.
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    Post by About8547Souls Sun Jul 08, 2012 10:54 pm

    I think he might have meant that they used spell-swap on him. I don't really know much about it myself, but I've seen people cast Crystal Homing Soulmass and it'll suddenly fly off everywhere but at me. And then I suddenly take a ton of damage despite no projectile even coming at me.
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    Post by Shungi Sun Jul 08, 2012 10:56 pm

    Agree with what reim said, it is very viable.
    I've always used dex builds with some sort of magic, be it pyro, faith or sorcery. But now I'm playing a pure str build and I'm having so much fun (and I actually win some as well).

    With your current stats you could maybe go for Black knight greataxe, it requires 36str 18dex, just raise str to 40. Many ppl dont like the BKGA because its somewhat associated with gankers and other non honorable people, however its a very good weapon. Just watch out for parrys.
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    Post by Pandamage22 Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:02 pm

    Most spells are very easy to dodge once you get the timing right. You might wanna find a friend and practice. Unfortunately this means that most people can dodge spells in pvp. I've been using a dex/int build, and so far my spells seem all but worthless when it comes to pvp. But perhaps I simply suck
    Is a no-magic build viable in PvP? 3358384175
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    Post by sinisterapathy Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:06 pm

    About8547Souls wrote:I think he might have meant that they used spell-swap on him. I don't really know much about it myself, but I've seen people cast Crystal Homing Soulmass and it'll suddenly fly off everywhere but at me. And then I suddenly take a ton of damage despite no projectile even coming at me.

    WTF is your sig from? lmao

    OT: You dont need magic at all my friend.
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    Post by FruitPunchNinja Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:22 pm

    Its called Nichijou, its a great if you like clever jokes,randomness,and anime. It centers around schoolgirls, but it isnt like other schoolgirl anime where they romanticize them. If you like anime you should check it out.
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    Post by User Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:24 pm

    You don;t need magic to win. It makes life easier at times, however it is not essential. You can beat the entire game without casting a spell and having normal weaponry... you just need to know how to do it.

    Same goes for PvP; Learn the counters, and you can beat magic in its own game of death, by using any weapon. Same goes for the vice versa, where you can play the entire game without a swing, and still beat the game. You just have to play your cards right.
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    Post by FruitPunchNinja Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:26 pm

    Having a bow actually really makes up for having no magic. Its even a good way to fight magic users. I like my pyro build, but i think i like my warrior more and he has base att,magic,and faith. I just use the composite bow, works great.
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    Post by Extertionist Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:45 am

    40/40 builds are some of the best in the game, you just have to practice your parrying, BSing, and rolls (unless you have more strength for Havel's Greatshield). With 40/40s timing is everything, determining when to hit and when to dodge is the difference between living and dying, also all offensive magic can be dodged, remember that, practice, and you should be good in no time.

    Bows and crossbows are also a great alternative to magic and although it's damage won't be as good as a soul spear it will still be enough to deter foes.

    One other thing, one spell in particular is very good for warrior, it's called power within. This spell will make you hit 40% harder and yes it may drain life but as long as you're using an un-upgraded pyro flame it will be like being poisoned but if you're using a maxed out flame it's like being hit with one of those dart a**holes in blight town.
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    Post by gateslol7 Mon Jul 09, 2012 2:45 am

    Awesome replies guys, thanks so much for the advice. I'll keep trucking and work on raising my VIT up and practicing dodging, I've been relying on blocking instead of dodging so far.

    The 40/40 build sounds great since I haven't experienced all weapons yet and this way I can find my perfect gem of a moveset!

    BTW anyone care to share their preferred weapons? I'm really liking the movesets of "Claymore" and "Halberd" so far, and the "Great Scythe" seems very promising as well.
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    Post by cloudyeki Mon Jul 09, 2012 2:51 am

    Look into the Scythe/Gargoyle Halberd/Black Knight Halberd/Giant's Halberd if you like the normal halberd's moveset. Also the Flamberge is awesome, though you won't be able to bleed with it unless you offhand a bleed weapon with it.

    Great Scythe is good, but takes ALOT of practice with the moveset AND spacing, so be wary.
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    Post by Ghadis_God Mon Jul 09, 2012 3:53 am

    Your fancy new dark hand blocks 80% of magic, fire, and lightning damage, very useful against mages if you use it as a second shield. Otherwise, just get better at dodging spells. I never get hit anymore by sorcery unless it's a sneak attack or in a gank, and only occasionally catch a Great Combustion or Great fireball (Sometimes I forget the actual thrown fireball does damage so i try to roll directly at them and through the actual ball they throw and get tagged)

    Edit: In terms of weapon choices, The Clay and halberd are both great weapons, the clay is beginner friendly but the Hal takes a lot of practice and timing to use to its full extent, though when you do it's incredible. It doesn't do well against turtles though unless you can dead angle with the R2s so carry a backup that's more suited to fighting those type of people. The Gargoyle halberd has really good AR but not much scaling, so it's better off as an elemental in most cases. It's another great weapon with the Black Knight Halberd's r1 moveset. I'm also a big fan of spears, especially as a secondary weapon, but again they need practice to become great weapons. I can pm you a literal treatise on spear wielding if you're interested, btw.

    For when you get to 40/40, I would try out the Murakumo. It requires 28 str and scales with dex so it's a demanding weapon to use to its full potential but if you keep it as a +15 its physical AR, moveset, range, and stunlocking ability are unmatched. If DkS was balanced like a fighting game, it would certainly be considered a high-tier weapon.

    At 40/40, the Washing Pole is my recommendation as a katana, as the scaling looks like crap initially, but it ends up more powerful than other katanas at 40/40 with far better range. Some people prefer the Iaito's moveset though, and the Chaos Blade does more damage if you have 10 humanity as well as having a purportedly better bleed effect (I don't have solid evidence either way) but a less viable moveset and a self-damage effect. Power Within, as stated above, is a good buff, but regardless of your vit will drain all your HP in about 60 seconds with a base flame. it's much better with a stronger weapon, as a 200 damage hit will have less of a bonus from a 40% increase than a 500 damage one, unlike the magic buffs which add a set AR, greatly benefitting faster weapons more than slower ones.
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    Post by Carphil Mon Jul 09, 2012 3:22 pm

    ^ Nice explanation!

    I would also try the Straight swords. Most of them has C/C scaling and are very effective. But the really amazing fact of this build is that you can use a katana and sundently switch to a Demon's great Machette mid battle!
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    Post by RANT Mon Jul 09, 2012 3:51 pm

    my warrior build only has 3 pyromancies which i almost never use. she has 27 str and 40 dex since i two hand my weapons with it cause that's what a true warrior does(i guess), the clay/bastard gs+15 are so good on a 40/40 build, as other have said, tha hal hits so hard you should try it but youre gonna need a lot of practice with it but if you realy wanna kick some *** two hand the mura unlock and go to town o those dead angles, you will win A LOT.
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    Post by FruitPunchNinja Mon Jul 09, 2012 3:58 pm

    Yea the mura is really *** powerful. I honestly dont even use it that often for whatever reason. I really have been gimping myself lately for no real reason. Its not like im very good compared to other players. I just feel a lot more bad *** when i look like a knight or warrior. I love the clay, but the bastard sword is just so bad ***. Heres what i was rockin with my recent warrior build, it looks really cool imo. My toon has gray receding hair, i named him "Old Knight". http://tinyurl.com/7zq4622


    i love how the wolf ring cancels out the green aura from the crest shield, reason im at 115 is to increase invasion rates. Also you're never a loser with this set up, cause no matter what you have tons of medals.
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    Post by Ghadis_God Mon Jul 09, 2012 4:00 pm

    @Carphil: I'm not a big fan of Straight swords personally, but they get almost as powerful as katanas (The SLSS does nearly as much as the uchi at 40/40) so they're definitely viable, and some people do swear by them, especially the BSS which has a great moveset but ends up being noticeably weaker. However, I still like a katana's unpredictability and DPS, they combo a bit better and can bleed as well. I wouldn't call a weapon that maxes out at 420 AR overpowered, but they do kind of put straight swords at a disadvantage in many ways, especially because they only need one stat to reach full potential.
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    Post by Carphil Mon Jul 09, 2012 4:03 pm

    Ghadis_God wrote:@Carphil: I'm not a big fan of Straight swords personally, but they get almost as powerful as katanas (The SLSS does nearly as much as the uchi at 40/40) so they're definitely viable, and some people do swear by them, especially the BSS which has a great moveset but ends up being noticeably weaker. However, I still like a katana's unpredictability and DPS, they combo a bit better and can bleed as well. I wouldn't call a weapon that maxes out at 420 AR overpowered, but they do kind of put straight swords at a disadvantage in many ways, especially because they only need one stat to reach full potential.

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    Post by RANT Mon Jul 09, 2012 4:08 pm

    here's mine http://tinyurl.com/6lpuc2y im kinda regretting the pyro now since i dont use it much, might just keep it at 14 and put those two points in end to be able to use the grass crest shield but it doesnt look to warriory to meIs a no-magic build viable in PvP? 3358384175

    edit; her name is joan of arc and that armor combo looks so badass, i love it.
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    Post by Ghadis_God Mon Jul 09, 2012 4:46 pm

    @Carphil Looks like you have some pretty nice builds at 120ish, I'll duel you but I can't use a katana on my one and only 120, I'm not built for it. DMB darksword looks like a fearsome thing by the way, my 120 is a Darkmoon as well.
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    Post by Carphil Mon Jul 09, 2012 5:56 pm

    Ghadis_God wrote:@Carphil Looks like you have some pretty nice builds at 120ish, I'll duel you but I can't use a katana on my one and only 120, I'm not built for it. DMB darksword looks like a fearsome thing by the way, my 120 is a Darkmoon as well.

    Actually i'm glad you noticed because I made a lot of changes in those builds, and I'm making a SL 55 based on a Wiki user made Build happy I'll be ready for duels again next weekend and if you want to, just hit me up in PSN winking

    Sorry for off topic

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