by ROOSTER330 Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:35 pmIf from fixed a few things, the pvp would be alot better in my opinion. Only daggers can backstab, twop effects the user too (though if no backstabs with giant weapons it can be left alone i suppose) giants armor and the masks need to be nerfed, or in general the equipment needs to be evened out for its effectiveness, would mean no one set of armor is superior, thus no more arguing about everyone using the same equipment. Just my opinions though. Think it would make the game funner
+18
Tolvo
About8547Souls
roanispe
Rynn
ROOSTER330
Carphil
Fotitudo
johnnyjwa
mrbeckham87
sinisterapathy
WyrmHero
ZikoLogiKa NL
DamageCK
lextune
Hahalo
Federally
Forum Pirate
Dark Souls PRO
22 posters
Backstabs and WoG
ROOSTER330- Caffeinated
- Posts : 966
Reputation : 20
Join date : 2012-06-07
Location : The Chicken Coop. Duh.
Rynn- Chosen Undead
- Posts : 4689
Reputation : 257
Join date : 2012-01-26
I actually think your post is spot on.johnnyjwa wrote:Ok so I read the first article and it was a pretty good read. A lot pertained to fighting games but it can apply to Dark Souls too.
Sirlin states, "The first step in becoming a top player is the realization that playing to win means doing whatever most increases your chances of winning. The game knows no rules of "honor" or of "cheapness." The game only knows winning and losing.". So if I want to play to win I should just summon two phantoms, use all 20 of my flasks if needed, and try to backstab my opponent with a hornet ring? I understand what he is saying but I think a line should be drawn somewhere to preserve some sort of fun in the game. Don't get me wrong I love 3v1s but if all I'm getting are 3v1s it gets old and that's when I start to get angry.
Now about fun... He says, "A common call of the scrub is to cry that the kind of play in which ones tries to win at all costs is "boring" or "not fun.". Maybe I'm just not a hardcore enough gamer and the people who use so called "cheap tactics" are and are simply playing to win. But if I fight someone who does nothing but fishes for backstabs all the time I do not find it fun. It also bothers me that according to this article this backstab fisher is simply a good player who understands that backstabbing, if you are good at it, is a very powerful strategy. I have also seen a video of two guys in the forest where one stands to the side while the other bows to the invader. Right as the invader bows back the host runs behind him and backstabs him usually for an insta kill. According to the article this is simply utilizing game mechanics to do whatever it takes to win. I don't like to think of these types of players as players who "play to win", I think of them as trolls.
The article is mainly centered around fighting games so it does not fully apply to Dark Souls but it is a good read overall and the author makes some good points. Basically what I got out of it is there are two kinds of players, ones who will do anything it takes to win, and those who play to have fun. I fit in the play to have fun category, which is why I get angry when someone breaks my made up standards I follow to have fun. For me I'd say I need to learn how to recognize a cutthroat play to win player and those who want to have fun.
Sorry for the Wall O' Text =)
roanispe- Addicted
- Posts : 286
Reputation : 82
Join date : 2012-03-06
Location : Gensōkyō
johnnyjwa wrote:Wall O' Text
In the introduction that Forum_Pirate linked you to, I tried to write out what "Playing to Win" means in Dark Souls. I tried to extend, and apply the idea to represent the diverse forms of play that arise. More specifically, I tried to apply it to PvP. You can play to win in PvE, and there are many challenges (Like EpicNameBro's) that are created that impose on yourself to get more enjoyment out of it. PvP does not have the luxury that PvE has of being a single player experience, and you'll find others not submit to your guidelines, or rules. However, there has arisen two sorts of PvP games: the 'Invading' game, and the 'Dueling' game. I won't rehash what I have already written, but if you are comfortable with your current playing experience, then there is no reason to try to go further. It is just a game, after all.
johnnyjwa- Addicted
- Posts : 140
Reputation : 5
Join date : 2012-03-21
Yes I know I am guilty of playing the "dueling game" with people who think I am playing the "invading game". Especially in the kiln.
I feel like I jacked this thread but this is all good info so thanks!
I feel like I jacked this thread but this is all good info so thanks!
WyrmHero- Lordvessel
- Posts : 8742
Reputation : 221
Join date : 2012-02-16
Age : 36
Location : The Painted World
A good tip, wait for them to bow. If they do, bow and you'll mostly have a fair fight. By fair I mean no healing, etc., but be prepared to get backstabbed at any moment. If they don't bow first place, play the invader game, anything goes!!!!
About8547Souls- Addicted
- Posts : 140
Reputation : 12
Join date : 2012-07-02
Age : 34
Location : Gensokyo
Yeah, backstabs are just something that is going to happen regardless of how much it bothers you. I got chain BSed in the forest last night, and I'll go ahead and say it did annoy me. But I know that it happened, and dwelling on it won't make it unhappen. What will make it unhappen (That's not even a word lol.) is me getting better.
Just do your best and have no regrets!
Just do your best and have no regrets!
Tolvo- Town Crier
- Posts : 13287
Reputation : 542
Join date : 2012-02-01
Age : 31
Location : The Forest, Illinois
It sort of makes me wish Dark Souls did have a unified community so that people would know of areas that are, "Competitive," and areas that are "Just for fun."
Rynn- Chosen Undead
- Posts : 4689
Reputation : 257
Join date : 2012-01-26
If someone backstabs me in combat, I remember their name.
Forever.
3 weeks later I will still backstab you, once for each time you backstabbed me.
Forever.
3 weeks later I will still backstab you, once for each time you backstabbed me.
Tolvo- Town Crier
- Posts : 13287
Reputation : 542
Join date : 2012-02-01
Age : 31
Location : The Forest, Illinois
That's how I am with Gankers, except I keep a list of their names written on paper. So if someone ever wants to play with me and I've seen them ganking, well then...I'll pretend it's all fun. Interesting note, I have names written down from this site. 
I'll never post their names of course, but it just goes to show how tainted our own community is.
I'll never post their names of course, but it just goes to show how tainted our own community is.
Rynn- Chosen Undead
- Posts : 4689
Reputation : 257
Join date : 2012-01-26
I don't hold a grudge forever, but I look for a notable change in the way a person acts... I have to actively see you hosting alone before I will trust you no longer gank.
WyrmHero- Lordvessel
- Posts : 8742
Reputation : 221
Join date : 2012-02-16
Age : 36
Location : The Painted World
Tolvo wrote:That's how I am with Gankers, except I keep a list of their names written on paper. So if someone ever wants to play with me and I've seen them ganking, well then...I'll pretend it's all fun. Interesting note, I have names written down from this site.
I'll never post their names of course, but it just goes to show how tainted our own community is.
Really? I was thinking of doing a poll called "Are you a ganker?".
Tolvo- Town Crier
- Posts : 13287
Reputation : 542
Join date : 2012-02-01
Age : 31
Location : The Forest, Illinois
And, that's the sort of stuff that started the "Honor War." That's why the list will remain anonymous, I know people can be aggravating. But let's also try not to get too "political" on the forum.
Rynn- Chosen Undead
- Posts : 4689
Reputation : 257
Join date : 2012-01-26
Please keep your list undisclosed. I don't really care who does or does not gank.
Tolvo- Town Crier
- Posts : 13287
Reputation : 542
Join date : 2012-02-01
Age : 31
Location : The Forest, Illinois
Agreed, frankly it was my mistake to actually mention it.
Dark Souls PRO- Addicted
- Posts : 100
Reputation : 2
Join date : 2012-07-02
Location : Australia
This upsets me, I thought this forum would be full of people that play honourably.
Yet from the amount of times my post was neg repped I can tell some people if not most play to win. This forum was fun while it lasted but I can't stand people who think winning no matter what.
Have fun guys and hate me all you want for actually trying to give people chances and have fun instead of a OHKO I can easily pull off if I resort to being what I hate most. Good Bye.
Yet from the amount of times my post was neg repped I can tell some people if not most play to win. This forum was fun while it lasted but I can't stand people who think winning no matter what.
Have fun guys and hate me all you want for actually trying to give people chances and have fun instead of a OHKO I can easily pull off if I resort to being what I hate most. Good Bye.
Federally- Chosen Undead
- Posts : 4072
Reputation : 124
Join date : 2012-04-19
Age : 38
Location : Iowa, USA
Dark Souls PRO wrote:This upsets me, I thought this forum would be full of people that play honourably.
Yet from the amount of times my post was neg repped I can tell some people if not most play to win. This forum was fun while it lasted but I can't stand people who think winning no matter what.
Have fun guys and hate me all you want for actually trying to give people chances and have fun instead of a OHKO I can easily pull off if I resort to being what I hate most. Good Bye.
Sorry had to neg this post because I find it funny, and maybe a little ironic
WyrmHero- Lordvessel
- Posts : 8742
Reputation : 221
Join date : 2012-02-16
Age : 36
Location : The Painted World
Nonono don't goooooo. There a lot of good players here still!!!!!!
Rynn- Chosen Undead
- Posts : 4689
Reputation : 257
Join date : 2012-01-26
Dear god, stay around!Dark Souls PRO wrote:This upsets me, I thought this forum would be full of people that play honourably.
Yet from the amount of times my post was neg repped I can tell some people if not most play to win. This forum was fun while it lasted but I can't stand people who think winning no matter what.
Have fun guys and hate me all you want for actually trying to give people chances and have fun instead of a OHKO I can easily pull off if I resort to being what I hate most. Good Bye.
And... I kind of need your help with some gear anyway XD
TehInfamousAmos- Chosen Undead
- Posts : 5277
Reputation : 118
Join date : 2012-04-07
Age : 30
Location : The League of Draven.
Sorry to see you go Pro, I realize that you got a lot of hate from some members when you first joined which is rather unfortunate but I wish you the best in your chosen career - if that be the chosen undead then have fun man
On a note, this has gotten so bloated and out of control. I may sound like a whiny person when I mention this but may the OP request for this thread to be locked please?
Federally- Chosen Undead
- Posts : 4072
Reputation : 124
Join date : 2012-04-19
Age : 38
Location : Iowa, USA
Since when is 3 pages bloated and out of control?
Tolvo- Town Crier
- Posts : 13287
Reputation : 542
Join date : 2012-02-01
Age : 31
Location : The Forest, Illinois
It's more so it is just a bit of an incendiary thread.
Federally- Chosen Undead
- Posts : 4072
Reputation : 124
Join date : 2012-04-19
Age : 38
Location : Iowa, USA
Lol more like incendiary posters
WyrmHero- Lordvessel
- Posts : 8742
Reputation : 221
Join date : 2012-02-16
Age : 36
Location : The Painted World
LOL amos you are a bit exaggerating everything's cool here.
TehInfamousAmos- Chosen Undead
- Posts : 5277
Reputation : 118
Join date : 2012-04-07
Age : 30
Location : The League of Draven.
Meh, it just seems. 'Oh screw backstabs and wog vs. I LOVE BACKSTABS, I LOVE WOG!' I may sound like a pompous t**t when I say this but just let people play how they wish, I know it is unfortunate our community is going downhill as more fall to the 'DERP GIANTS MoM' Fad and the trend of ganking but we can still have fun, we just don't need to worry about the bullcrap. You can have fun without the constant Wins, I find it amusing to be killed by gankers because I see it as a fun little challenge to track them down and kill em'. Everyone just needs to take a chilled out approach towards the game, after all it is just a game and we are meant to have fun playing it - I am grateful for this community but there are many people who instigate these arguments/heated discussions - people need to learn from their history. Take Hitler for example, he chose to attack Russia - he lost due to the exact same reason as Napoleon Bonaparte, he didn't learn from history. I know that is a bad example but the complaint threads need to stop. Just sway away from controversial topics please?
WyrmHero- Lordvessel
- Posts : 8742
Reputation : 221
Join date : 2012-02-16
Age : 36
Location : The Painted World
That's impossible, new forum members will always these kind of threads. Some old ones like to rant a bit too, including myself.
