why so much BB glitch hate?

I used to not use the BB glitch. Mainly because I'm weary about glitches and how they can possibly screw up your game. I use it now because I like to pvp, that's all I do in dks, at lvl 120ish. I have tried making new builds the "legit" way but I just get burned out and lose that initial drive I had to create the build. I was inspired to make the build for pvp and having to drudge though pve content I've done a billion times causes me to lose that initial spark and lose interest. I use it to save time and my sanity.

Oh but it's bad because of low lvl griefers yadda yadda what everyone else has said.

I completely understand how it can ruin the experience for new playere/people who don't know about the glitch. Occasionally though, I'll see someone who frequents this forum gripe about being griefed. I mean... come on, man. At this point we all know how that goes. You're human at a low SL, you get griefed. End of storytime.

Like most of the other posters, I use it strictly to cut down on time. I don't even play online until I'm in the fifties, just 'cause I don't want to be screwed with while questing, which is what other people should do if they don't want to PvP at a given time. Griefing isn't uncommon, at least giefers aren't, but the community is largely aware of it now, so when I hear complaints from seasoned players, I don't know what to do other than shrug and say "should have seen that coming."

The stuff about it requiring less investment, which in turn gives the sense that you're less invested in the character itself makes sense, except that (a) it's subjective, and (b) why would that effect your view on other players using the BB? Let 'em feel less invested, what's it got to do with you? I agree that I feel more "connected" to a build that I've done from scratch, but it's not worth doubling my playthrough time, if not more.

I hate when people have that attitude...oh you got griefed? hey it happens, get over it....well ya know what? even though its gonna happen...it ******* sucks...ESPECIALLY if you're low SL, and EVEN MORE if you're just starting the game...you go human to get to the sunbro summon to help you on the super hard boss that you just KNOW you can take down with Solaire but right as you start to the sign XXXXXX HAS INVADED...oh know! *run to sign* cant make it, well its a low lvl area maybe i can win...*finds invader*...what...armor....ok i got this....LIGHTNING STAB FOR 1200 dmg....but but but I only had 500 being SL12!...THAT is what ruins people on the damn BB glitch, if you wanna do the glitch, that's fine, but don't pvp until you are in the gear appropriate areas.

It's not the BB, it's the players. You can take the BB away, they'll just play through the game at SL1 and grief you the "legit" way and you'll still have a beef with it. The issue isn't BBing, it's griefing. I BB every new build, but I don't grief. So what have I done wrong?

Reim put it best when he said "it's not the gear you use, it's HOW you use it". I could BB whatever I want and PvP at 120 and no one would ever know the difference. Using it to grief is an entirely different issue because, again, the problem is griefing, not the glitch.

Just throwing my 2 cents here, but as long as you beat the game once (let's say twice coz NG+ is a new experience), I don't mind "cheating" to enjoy new ways of playing. If one is "stupid" enough to ruin his gaming experience by cheating before he has completed the game, too bad for him.

Glitch ain't fair, but so are Demons Souls & Dark Souls.

My problem with the bb has nothing to do with being griefed...

So then what's the problem?

Griefers..

Just read your post on the previous page. Here's my take:

I really doubt there are many people who BB so they can quest with a new build. And even if there were, how does them doing it affect you? You can personally choose not to BB and that's fine. The people I'm addressing are the ones who have a beef with other PvPers BBing, and in that sense the argument that it draws from the classic RPG feel is irrelevent since at that point it's no longer about questing, it's about combat. And in that way it is like Tekken.

So what I'm getting at here is if your beef isn't with other players using it then what's really the problem? You just choose not to use it and move on. Just like I choose not to use the Lucerne, because I think it blows, and move on. It's a non-issue.

Briefly stepping by to thank everyone for providing insightful and honest answers without turning this into flamewars.

^DamageCK You're missing the point.. Low level griefing is the real issue.
New build from scratch vs BB maxed giants armor & Elem. weapons.

I would just say it's a mixed bag. It helps players transfer gear to characters that did not find them in game. That's all it does. The glitch is not good or evil. It helps players achieve their personal goals. Not everyone has lofty ones to be sure. Removing it would likely lead to less jerks but also less duelists

Gawain wrote:^DamageCK You're missing the point.. Low level griefing is the real issue.
New build from scratch vs BB maxed giants armor & Elem. weapons.

Actually I've pointed that out about forty times now. I know what griefing is, holmes.

A good player can get the weapons and shields and armor he/she needs without doing the glitch, and still low level invade. You can't assume (even though its logical to, as it usually is true) that the low level griefer did not beat most of the game with a low level character. I remember when the game first came out, and this still happened, of course it was less common, but in a way, it kinda offsets too. I know that I love to help new players with my BB glitched characters (it also helps that I need that humanity to get to full powa chaos weapons!).

The idea of the BB glitch, is there anything wrong with it? In PvP, it saves tons of time and grinding, if you don't like doing the quick and easy path, forever will it dominate your destiny... I mean you don't have to do it, but there is no logical reason not to.

I mean heck, I play dragon, I'm not gonna kill Four Kings, buy 198 Cracked Red Eye Orbs, kill the estimated 600 drakes, and then use them up and uh oh, time to start again! Heck no, I just BB my level 3 dragon (who keeps the level), and transfers over the 99 CREO's. I don't mind spending time farming, but why would I when I just want to enjoy the game, I even prefer to make PvE/P characters, all of mine are designed to beat both hurdles, and I don't want to farm drakes again (I do think it is nice to do it once, it makes you appreciate it all the more). What about players that put a point in resistance and aren't crazy like me? Why would you make them do it all over again for that? Prepare to die, sure, but the game is really quite forgiving. Consider Braid, that game (I wouldn't use hard, but perhaps, challenging in your first play) is challenging, but you can't even lose. In Dark Souls, no matter what, you can't unless you give up.

In PvE, who cares? Why did we buy Dark Souls? I BOUGHT IT SO I CAN SMACK THE ENEMIES TO DEATH WITH A +99 LIGHTNING CESTUS! HEEE YAA!

Who wants to deny the difficulty that is Dark Souls? (Actually, you can't even do that, to do the glitch, you have to already have the items, if you don't, well, aren't you just popping the game in? ENJOY IT, ENJOY THE DYING!).

Well, its a glitch, it should be patched, and I dunno about you, person that is reading my post (you're my favorite person BTW), but I will be sad if it goes. Nothing about it does anything wrong, but what can be done with it can be wrong.

I do have a question, how does one choose what is low level invasions and what is not? I mean I can invade Belltower with a level 30, is that low? What about if I invade Burg with a level 5, is that low? Does it depend so much on my equipment? Are you sure I didn't get it legitimately?

I don't really care, but when Griefers come, it gets me annoyed.
*** griefers.

I think that the only problem, aside from divine blessing users in PVP, is that the glitch can destroy someones first online experience:

- Invade low level newbies and give them no chance of fighting back.

- Being summoned to a newbies world and one shot his boss.

alchemydesign wrote:I hate when people have that attitude...oh you got griefed? hey it happens, get over it....well ya know what? even though its gonna happen...it ******* sucks...ESPECIALLY if you're low SL, and EVEN MORE if you're just starting the game...you go human to get to the sunbro summon to help you on the super hard boss that you just KNOW you can take down with Solaire but right as you start to the sign XXXXXX HAS INVADED...oh know! *run to sign* cant make it, well its a low lvl area maybe i can win...*finds invader*...what...armor....ok i got this....LIGHTNING STAB FOR 1200 dmg....but but but I only had 500 being SL12!...THAT is what ruins people on the damn BB glitch, if you wanna do the glitch, that's fine, but don't pvp until you are in the gear appropriate areas.

But folks can choose to play offline until they're at a more comfortable level and location too, can't they? I mean, buttholes will always behave like buttholes and there isn't anything we can do about that at the moment. Beside, let's be realistic here. Better armors and equipment does not guarantee a win, since skilled players will still wipe the floor with those folks' faces all the same. And if some of us aren't skilled enough (myself included) to protect ourselves, we can just take some steps to prevent ourselves from being victimized by playing offline.

Bloodios wrote: Beside, let's be realistic here. Better armors and equipment does not guarantee a win, since skilled players will still wipe the floor with those folks' faces all the same. And if some of us aren't skilled enough (myself included) to protect ourselves, we can just take some steps to prevent ourselves from being victimized by playing offline.

not when you parry and riposte the same dude ten times and only take out 5% of his health. I preffer to backstab him and run to the boss gate. And Newbies don't have any experience or skill

Carphil wrote:not when you parry and riposte the same dude ten times and only take out 5% of his health. I preffer to backstab him and run to the boss gate. And Newbies don't have any experience or skill

Precisely why I said that we should choose to play offline until we're good enough take the challenges head-on. The problem exists long enough for community to be aware of it already and since it isn't likely going to go away anytime soon, we've got to do what we can to cope with it.

The thing that sucks about griefing is that I can't make a sexy hollow so it is extra grief for me. I hate being hollow on my toons. Thats why I use BB to anti grief.

Carphil wrote:I think that the only problem, aside from divine blessing users in PVP, is that the glitch can destroy someones first online experience:

- Invade low level newbies and give them no chance of fighting back.

- Being summoned to a newbies world and one shot his boss.

So how's that different from being cursed in your first playthrough (and even more so if it was a stacked curse pre-patch) or having Rhea and the Firekeeper killed before you know what the heck?

And if you summon a guy able to one-shot a boss, I think he'd actually be able to defend you from an invasion, unless he's a prick too.

Here's an example. My cousin (LVL15), first playthrough, summons a guy. The guy is clad in full Orstein and carries a Quelaag's Furysword. He one shots pretty much everything while my cousin glees in excitement.
A guy invades. The phantom bows and RETREATS AWAY FROM THE COMBAT. The guy goes and curbstomps my cousin in one hit. BOTH PHANTOMS bow.

The glitch is innocuous; the problem is the people.

Also, I shared it because I thought it was funny.

DARK SOULS!

Azran wrote:

Carphil wrote:I think that the only problem, aside from divine blessing users in PVP, is that the glitch can destroy someones first online experience:

- Invade low level newbies and give them no chance of fighting back.

- Being summoned to a newbies world and one shot his boss.

So how's that different from being cursed in your first playthrough (and even more so if it was a stacked curse pre-patch) or having Rhea and the Firekeeper killed before you know what the heck?

get cursed, talk to Donmhall, he will tell you to go to new Londo ruins find someone who can lift the curse. It adds a quest to the game

If you met Rhea in ToG and then find some humanity in the church, you would never knew that was her. Unless you desperately wants even more heals, wrath of the gods or lesser magic barrier, thats not game breaking.

You get the firekeeper stuff including the black eye orb, the descriptions says that you can invade a world of a murderer, and in Anor Londo, you get the message to use the black orb and save firelink shrine.

^ this VS:

You have 10 humanity in undead parish, you can't beat gargoyles alone, you use 1 humanity to summon a friend as stated in the white summon sign, instantly invader with full upgraded gear appears and backstabs you. you use the remaining 9 humanities and same thing happens.

Or

You manage to summon someone, go to gargoyles and he kill both bosses in one or two hits with a maxed out lightning zweihander.

Also, funny story. That happens a lot lately.

Well, firstly, playing offline does nothing to help one play in pvp, there are absolutely NO similarities in BSing that hollow archer and parrying a PVPer...there is waaaay too much to gamble with lag.

Secondly, I imagine that some people only summon people on bosses to kill them...no matter how it's done. I see your point though, they don't get the real chance to learn strat, but I mean really, if you have to summon someone because you died on the gargoyles 600000000 times...then chances are this game isn't for you.

People say this game is hard, but it's not...it's really not. Especially if you have any modicum of problem solving and patience. My first playthrough, I breezed through the game, getting stuck on only two or three bosses (O&S until i was comfortable watching both of them....and Gwyn until I got his parry timing down). Why should someone be forced to play offline simply because someone else decided to BB glitch his 99 CREO and grief the burg or parish?

Of course this game is hard. It just seems easy because we got used to it.

Any game is easy if you have patience.

You could say Ninja Gaiden on the NES is easy if you have patience, but we all know it is a difficult game.

For me its about the value and economy of the game being rendered useless which for any rpg is just a shame really. The game aint really built for pvp, lots of lag lots of unbalanced systems, allot of cheap techniques. if this were sold as a fighting game it wouldn't be a very well made one Oh and no dedicated servers meaning hacks and glitches are common.

Ultimately its the idea of dark souls and its rift timeline and torn realities being spoiled completely because theres no narrative to the equipment or player characters. People like to roll play but thats pointless in a game where your not stuck with your choices. I don't care that much man, but it could have been (and was intended as being) a very unique and cool multiplayer RPG experience, with each of us crafting unique(ish) characters and encountering each other in the cracked reality hub of lordran. I don't care about other people griefing etc, its just not as interesting anymore that's all.