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    Abyss/Berserk References and Speculation (Lore)

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    Post by SEANB240 Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:21 am

    Non-spoiler edition: https://soulswiki.forumotion.com/t10856-berserk-references

    I'll work more on this tomorrow when I'm not dead tired.

    Edit: For those not in the know, From has taken A LOT of inspiration for Demon's and Dark Souls from the Berserk universe, as can be summed up from this oldie but goodie:

    Abyss/Berserk References and Speculation (Lore) Berserkanddemonssouls

    Now onto the new stuff...

    Abyss
    The deepest level of the world, where only Ideal forms exist; what many would call Heaven or Hell. A mortal cannot maintain their ego at this depth. The Idea of Evil resides here, connected through the subconsciousness of the world's inhabitants.

    Abyss/Berserk References and Speculation (Lore) Berserk-1592952

    Abyss/Berserk References and Speculation (Lore) Dark-Souls-Prepare-to-Die-Edition-5

    The former is a picture of a character trying to save Guts from his Berserker armor, which, when he uses it, eats away at his humanity and releases his inner power, the Hellhound, basically turning him into a thoughtless killing machine. Remember that Artorias himself suffers ego loss from the Abyss and coincidentally, his...spirit animal(?) is the wolf. Take a look at these and notice the interesting similarities:

    Abyss/Berserk References and Speculation (Lore) Berserker_Armor_by_hellbeast

    Abyss/Berserk References and Speculation (Lore) Dark-souls-pc-artorias

    Abyss/Berserk References and Speculation (Lore) 261503-1449934_e_large

    Abyss/Berserk References and Speculation (Lore) 4tR64

    There are more frighteningly similar pictures to compare, but for now I'll leave it at that. Moving on...

    Vortex

    On the surface of the Abyss is an ocean of souls. In that ocean is a massive, collective body of all departed human souls, shaped like a giant spiral. When an Apostle dies, the vortex rises to the Physical world to pull their demonic bodies back to the Abyss. The Vortex is the destiny of anyone caught up in the affairs of the God Hand.

    This is the thing that grabs them to pull them into the Abyss:

    Abyss/Berserk References and Speculation (Lore) Vortex

    That one is a bit of a longshot, but I can see inspiration there. THink of the way Manus's arm slinkies out and pulls you in.

    And here is one that is complete and utter speculation, if you find it totally crazy, at least don't ignore the rest of the post:

    Abyss/Berserk References and Speculation (Lore) Berserk-1592953

    The amulet is what keeps Guts from suffering complete ego loss. Now we know the pendant belonged to Manus...And it was broken. And he became a freakish monstrosity. Artorias never possessed one in the first place as far as we know. The player, who doesn't suffer ego loss in the Abyss, however...

    It "comforts travelers". Could it be that the pendant allows them to retain their ego, rather than falling prey to the Abyss? And after Manus's pendant was broken and/or stolen, he was overcome? And the Abyss is the Abyss within himself, the progenitor of mankind, released onto the surface after Oolacile screws with his grave?

    "If you stare into the Abyss long enough, the Abyss stares back at you." - Nietzche

    The Abyss represents us, mankind, and the darkest reaches of the human soul. I think this is one point Miyazaki wanted to clarify lore-wise and did a successful job with in the DLC.

    Sources: http://www.mangaeden.com/en-manga/berserk/98/1/ (NSFW!!!)
    http://www.skullknight.net/encyclopedia/glossary/glossary.php#Vargas
    (Btw, Skullnight.net is awesome. If you're at all interested in Berserk, check it out, lot's of information and a wonderful community)


    Last edited by SEANB240 on Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:01 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    Post by Spurgun Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:55 am

    I read berserk as well. And i actually thought of berserk when playing DeS.
    But i didn't thikn of the similarities between Artorias and Gutts.
    Both worlds have the "all endings are bad" feel to them, and they are similar in a lot of ways.
    I'll let the lore people comment on this. But i think that you did an awesome job finding all of this. 1+ to you big grin
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    Post by Casdman Thu Aug 30, 2012 10:04 am

    Wow , never really thought about the similarities before, just makes me like Artorias even more big grin
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    Post by Casdman Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:38 am

    There are also some similarities with rhea, a young religious women who goes on a righteous mission, only to find out just how powerless she really is, remind you of someone?
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    Post by Ghadis_God Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:46 am

    Man, I thought that image of Artorias holding the sword behind his back was familiar. I'm a big Berserk fan so this is awesome stuff.
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    Post by SEANB240 Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:07 pm

    Casdman wrote:There are also some similarities with rhea, a young religious women who goes on a righteous mission, only to find out just how powerless she really is, remind you of someone?

    Yeah! Speaking of that, if you take a closer look at some of the flashbacks to the Holy City, there are some weird similarities to Anor Londo. That might be pushing it, though.
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    Post by Wade_Wilson Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:13 pm

    Very interesting. There are definitely connections between the two.
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    Post by dancash1808 Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:13 pm

    This is a damn impressive find +1
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    Post by SEANB240 Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:38 pm

    Wade_Wilson wrote:Very interesting. There are definitely connections between the two.

    There is a lot more, besides the obvious Rickert and Pinwheel nods, but it is going to take me a while to collect it all.
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    Post by Spurgun Thu Aug 30, 2012 3:40 pm

    Haha, i had forgotten about the pinwheels.
    I'll reread Berserk and see if i can help you with anything. big grin
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    Post by Anonymous Proxy Thu Aug 30, 2012 3:52 pm

    I absolutely love this. As a Berserk-Enthusiast, I find this amazing.
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    Post by Anonymous Proxy Thu Aug 30, 2012 3:55 pm

    Casdman wrote:There are also some similarities with rhea, a young religious women who goes on a righteous mission, only to find out just how powerless she really is, remind you of someone?

    You, good sir, are speaking of the Good Princess Fairnese, yes?
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    Post by Casdman Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:01 pm

    Spurgun wrote:Haha, i had forgotten about the pinwheels.
    I'll reread Berserk and see if i can help you with anything. big grin

    Like you need a reason to reread Berzerk XD

    But could there be a connection between the goat demon, and the capra demons?

    Abyss/Berserk References and Speculation (Lore) 250h

    Abyss/Berserk References and Speculation (Lore) Capra_demon
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    Post by SEANB240 Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:05 pm

    EDIT: Nice! I also noticed a similarity between the Taurus Demon and Zodd, though it is sort of tenuous:

    Abyss/Berserk References and Speculation (Lore) 368033-bp_zodd_super
    Abyss/Berserk References and Speculation (Lore) KzV2S

    And Doldrey looks a lot like Lordran:

    Abyss/Berserk References and Speculation (Lore) Doldrey1



    ^ I'm also wondering if there could be a connection between the new Band of the Hawk and Artorias's group. Assassin: Check, Badass Archer: Check, Spearguy: Check.

    The general vibe of that portion of the arc is very reminiscent to me of DaS, as the Hawk of Light seems to fight on behalf of all people, but the motives and endgoal...definitely don't seem to be in the best interests of humanity. On the other hand, the Black Swordsman, whose only real motive is rage (besides Casca), stands opposed to this Light. But if he puts a stop to Griffith, the world (or Midland, at least) will be broken apart again and at the mercy of Abyssal demons, though it won't be under the unified rule of a reborn Apostle.

    It seems like a no-win situation.


    Last edited by SEANB240 on Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by Spurgun Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:14 pm

    Does blind remind anyone else of Serpicos "wind" sword?
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    Post by SEANB240 Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:35 pm

    I'm going to start this thread in the Archives so the lore junkies don't miss out, but keep the DLC related stuff like the OP in this one.
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    Post by Casdman Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:40 pm

    Spurgun wrote:Does blind remind anyone else of Serpicos "wind" sword?

    Yes, yes it does

    i think were nearing the point where law suits go out on IPs :shock:
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    Post by SEANB240 Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:05 pm

    https://soulswiki.forumotion.com/t10856-berserk-references

    New thread. Remember, leave the DLC stuff here!
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    Post by Anonymous Proxy Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:56 pm

    Since we're speaking of the DLC stuff here.

    Gods of the Abyss (CH. 82-83) referenced in Dark Souls is pretty much there. (Yes, I am referring to Manus and his "pendant")
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    Post by SEANB240 Thu Aug 30, 2012 6:06 pm

    True enough.

    It's pretty crazy that the Idea of Evil thing was cut from Berserk because it gave too much of the story away, while this content regarding Manus and the Abyss was cut from Dark Souls and further illuminates this story. Just an interesting note.
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    Post by StockpileThomas Thu Aug 30, 2012 6:41 pm

    This is the best thread on here! I love Berserk and always said to myself while playing Demon's Souls and Dark Souls, "Whoever made this game is obviously into Berserk."

    Berserk is pretty dark; It's the only manga I've read and I can't wait till it's finally finished.

    Prayer
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    Post by Orango19 Fri Aug 31, 2012 3:38 pm

    @OP : Beatrice traversing the Abyss.
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    Post by CazzMatazz Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:48 pm

    This thread is awesome.
    Thanks for all the info
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    Post by SEANB240 Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:55 pm

    ^Nice avatar!

    Orango19 wrote:@OP : Beatrice traversing the Abyss.

    Interesting point! What was the lore behind her again? You find her stuff near the Valley of Drakes, right?

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    Post by ZikoLogiKa NL Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:30 pm

    Very interesting thread & great job on finding and pointing out the resemblances !

    Ive never heard of Berserk mind you :pirat:

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