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    Ornstein possibly an illusion?

    Poll

    Do we really fight Ornstein?

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    Total Votes: 70
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    Post by Acarnatia Tue Sep 10, 2013 2:03 pm

    Well, that's assuming how the illusion magic works, which we actually don't know. Once made, they may exist indepenant of him, with Gwynevere being the keystone.


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    Post by Thxodore Tue Sep 10, 2013 2:41 pm

    But if the illusions are independent of Gwyndolin, why do the other illusions vanish?
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    Post by homelessguy Tue Sep 10, 2013 2:45 pm

    Thxodore wrote:But if the illusions are independent of Gwyndolin, why do the other illusions vanish?
    why does the amazing chest not vanish if gywndolin killed ???
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    Post by Soul of Stray Demon Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:27 pm

    homelessguy wrote:
    Thxodore wrote:But if the illusions are independent of Gwyndolin, why do the other illusions vanish?
    why does the amazing chest not vanish if gywndolin killed ???
    Being the keystone means that gwynevere is the illusion holding the rest of the illusions together.


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    Post by Hue Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:53 pm

    Thxodore wrote:But if the illusions are independent of Gwyndolin, why do the other illusions vanish?
    What...?
    As far as i remember, they don't


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    Post by Soul of Stray Demon Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:54 pm

    Hue wrote:
    Thxodore wrote:But if the illusions are independent of Gwyndolin, why do the other illusions vanish?
    What...?
    As far as i remember, they don't
    The Sentinels do. 

    But yeah, they aren't illusions are they..


    OH WAIT... I KNOW. THE SUN.


    Maybe there's just no reason to hide it anymore? Since the Sentinels are gone?


    Last edited by Soul of Stray Demon on Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:34 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Post by Acarnatia Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:46 pm

    Soul of Stray Demon wrote:
    Hue wrote:
    Thxodore wrote:But if the illusions are independent of Gwyndolin, why do the other illusions vanish?
    What...?
    As far as i remember, they don't
    The Sentinels do. 

    But yeah, they aren't illusions are they..


    OH WAIT... I KNOW. THE SUN.


    Maybe there's just no reason to hide it anymore? Since the silver knights are gone?
    The Silver Knights AREN'T gone; they and the painting guardians are the only enemies still present after Anor Londo goes twilight.


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    Post by Soul of Stray Demon Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:33 pm

    Acarnatia wrote:
    Soul of Stray Demon wrote:
    Hue wrote:
    Thxodore wrote:But if the illusions are independent of Gwyndolin, why do the other illusions vanish?
    What...?
    As far as i remember, they don't
    The Sentinels do. 

    But yeah, they aren't illusions are they..


    OH WAIT... I KNOW. THE SUN.


    Maybe there's just no reason to hide it anymore? Since the silver knights are gone?
    The Silver Knights AREN'T gone; they and the painting guardians are the only enemies still present after Anor Londo goes twilight.
    Sorry, I meant the sentinels the second time, I'll go back and change it.... 


    But then begs the question, Why are the silver knights still there? Did they just not realize gwynevere is gone?


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    Post by Acarnatia Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:11 pm

    I'm 'thinking because they AREN'T illusions, just as the Black Knights aren't; they're really there.


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    Post by Soul of Stray Demon Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:14 pm

    Acarnatia wrote:I'm 'thinking because they AREN'T illusions, just as the Black Knights aren't; they're really there.
    But aren't they protecting Gwynevere?

    There's no need to if she's gone. 

    That's the main problem with it. But then again, maybe they already know, and they just stay to fight.


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    Post by Acarnatia Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:27 pm

    Perhaps they, like the Black Knights are merely armor at this point-not intelligent, just willful enough to move and fight.
    Also, we don't know that they're protecting Gwynevere. They may only be assigned to protect Anor Londo's treasures, may be aware that Gwynevere's an illusion and not care, (possibly combined with the previous reason) may be following the directives of a different deity than Gwynevere or Gwyndolin, or have ulterior motives; we don't know.


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    Post by Soul of Stray Demon Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:29 pm

    Silver Knight Helm


    Helm of the Silver Knights who protect Anor
    Londo.
    When Lord Gwyn departed to link the Fire,
    his knights split into two groups. The Silver
    Knights remained in the forsaken capital in
    the service of their goddess.




    Well the way it's written seems like they are protecting Gwynevere.


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    Post by Acarnatia Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:06 pm

    Point taken. This still doesn't mean that they're illusions, though, so they're still there even after the Gwynevere illusion is gone.


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    Post by Icegodzilla Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:22 pm

    lol this thread is almost a year old and its still being debated.


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    Post by Scurrilous Straggler Sat Sep 14, 2013 10:54 am

    I had a somewhat similar idea in this respect... I think that everything in Anor Londo, which isn't the Dark Sun or the surprise guards during night, are illusions. Smough and Ornstein existed once, I'm sure, as did all the knights and giants and demons, but, like everything else, they are gone a long time ago. Like the other inhabitants (excluding Tits McGee) we are able to interact in the form of aggravating combats. I don't trust a goddamn thing in Anor Londo. Not even that so called 'Moon' that illuminates the so called 'Sky.'


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    Post by Soul of Stray Demon Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:35 am

    Scurrilous Straggler wrote:I had a somewhat similar idea in this respect... I think that everything in Anor Londo, which isn't the Dark Sun or the surprise guards during night, are illusions. Smough and Ornstein existed once, I'm sure, as did all the knights and giants and demons, but, like everything else, they are gone a long time ago. Like the other inhabitants (excluding Tits McGee) we are able to interact in the form of aggravating combats. I don't trust a goddamn thing in Anor Londo. Not even that so called 'Moon' that illuminates the so called 'Sky.'
    You don't think the Giant Blacksmith is real then? 

    Besides that would mean the Gwyndolin Boss Battle is just way too easy then. He should be able to just create another Ornstein and Smough, and destroy you easily..... I don't think they are fakes.


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    Post by Acarnatia Sat Sep 14, 2013 5:55 pm

    I think at that point, Gwyndolin is pretty fed up with you, and he is a so-called deity; arrogance seems to come frequently with that.

    On another note, in Vaatividya's '10 things you didn't know about Dark Souls 5', he covers an odd phenomenon; the moon actually disappears and reappears in twilight Anor Londo when you move the camera.


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    Post by Scurrilous Straggler Sat Sep 14, 2013 10:30 pm

    Soul of Stray Demon wrote:
    Scurrilous Straggler wrote:I had a somewhat similar idea in this respect... I think that everything in Anor Londo, which isn't the Dark Sun or the surprise guards during night, are illusions. Smough and Ornstein existed once, I'm sure, as did all the knights and giants and demons, but, like everything else, they are gone a long time ago. Like the other inhabitants (excluding Tits McGee) we are able to interact in the form of aggravating combats. I don't trust a goddamn thing in Anor Londo. Not even that so called 'Moon' that illuminates the so called 'Sky.'
    You don't think the Giant Blacksmith is real then? 

    Besides that would mean the Gwyndolin Boss Battle is just way too easy then. He should be able to just create another Ornstein and Smough, and destroy you easily..... I don't think they are fakes.
     I'm actually sort of undecided on the Giant Blacksmith. He does remain when the illusions go away, but then again he's in Anor Londo and that place is full of lies. I'm more inclined to believe he's real, though, now that I'm considering it. 

    The Gwyndolin boss battle IS easy, on every +++ etc. You just have to run and dodge. Though I think it's so easy because he's not really used to ever fighting at all and has no real idea on how to combat someone coming right at him. I suppose that's another conversation, though. As for him being able to just resummon illusions; I always thought that the kind of effort it would take to summon beasts like S&O is massive and on a sort of 'cooldown.'


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    Post by Thxodore Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:22 am

    Gough talks about the Giant Blacksmith as if he knew him well...highly doubt he is an illusion.
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    Post by Scurrilous Straggler Wed Sep 18, 2013 7:46 am

    Just because something lived once, doesn't mean it's not dead and an illusion now. Though because he didn't vanish, I'd be more inclined to say he is still alive.


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    Post by Thxodore Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:29 pm

    That's a good point. There's no true way to tell, but from what I've gathered from this thread he is not an illusion.

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