Someone help me lower this to SL150?

I guess alot of what I've said about WoG is kinda bias.

I actually hate having a talisman in my hand, but I tried to stay true to the "pure caster element". I rarely ever finish off with WoG and find myself only using it as a deterent or something to combo in to. I have all the power I need as is ya know?

If you think you can manage with 3 castings , then hell go for it. However, having Force and 21 castings makes the TinCrystalCat seem yummier (If you were to consider it). And Force also frees up a lot of soul levels for other shtuff.

I hear ya about SMS too. But if you count outloud one one-thousand, two two-onethousand.......you'll see 15 secs isn't that minimal considering an entire duel. Especially when the only weakness of recasting it, is when people roll straight forward to you after casting HCSM/Pursuers. SMS is op if you can get it off.

However, if Wyrm seems that convicted about WoG...then maybe....
...I dont take his advice lightly is all I know.

OMG, Lunar! What haft thou done with mah thread?! So many words.....
@Lunar: I've made just about every standard melee build out there but never any full fledged caster so yeah. I need more diversity if i'm to continue playing the game. Sad to know you think that way.

So i'm just going to reply to those i can actually read. :|

Is there really a point in having more than 28 point in Att? Cuz 50 seems like a waste to invest on.
I was planning on maximizing the overall damage by getting Faith to 50 but if 28 is strong enough, then i'll go with that. For casters, since we will usually attack from range, isn't 1708 a little high? Myself personally, if i'm not doing melee, 1590 is sufficient enough. How am i gonna fit in the DWGR if i'm using the FaP/Bellow combo? Swap out Bellow for the DWGR? But doesn't that defeat the purpose of a caster?

http://mugenmonkey.com/darksouls/?c=194717114146265135

Here's what i came up with from Wyrm's template. I lowered Att to 28, swapped FaP for DWGR and increased Vit to 50 for 1500hp. I'm going to use to Mail Breaker cuz it has a slightly higher crit modifier and it weighs less than the Rapier. Thoughts, guys?

EDITED: Cuz i'm an idiot for typos. :|

Automancer wrote:....Is there really a point in having more than 28 Att slots? Cuz 50 seems like a waste to invest on....

I sooooo want 28 attunements slots, and if you can tell me how to get 50 I'll pay you real money. :shock:

jj

I;m soory man I couldn't help it!!! I'll keep reading.........

***edit***

Based on what Lunar has said, I think she's just full of piss and vinegar and kiddin.

Automancer wrote:...Is there really a point in having more than 28 Att slots? Cuz 50 seems like a waste to invest on...

Ok for real man.

You're gonna have to decide that yourself. Every single person that considers actually making a pure caster build should have "50" and "10" in the back of their minds at all times, with every decision.

Automancer wrote:...For casters, since we will usually attack from range, isn't 1708 a little high? Myself personally, if i'm not doing melee, 1590 is sufficient enough...

Yes, it is necessary considering the cheap investment. You could switch "ears" with MoM and be fine actually, imo.
If you want to fight competitively you need to be able to brush off one backstab. Its gonna happen.
This is why…its just to make sure.
It also gives you a nice cushion to “flow” with.

Automancer wrote: How am i gonna fit in the DWGR if i'm using the FaP/Bellow combo? Swap out Bellow for the DWGR?
But doesn't that defeat the purpose of a caster?:|

All I heard was that. As far as ring combos and defeating a purpose, I'll say you CANNOT forget,
you are playing Dark Souls...I mean Backstab Souls lol.
Not having a backstab move at all is complete shellshock.
You have to adjust.

Automancer wrote:...Mail Breaker.... Rapier...

This is why I’ve said everything else I’ve said. Doubling up your spells, the DWGR, right hand-->left hand combos,
how to finish a parry…

…these are all examples of what you will encounter as a caster.
Having zero backstab ability is a b|tch. No doubt about it.

Deciding how you’re gonna bait people is where to start. Even before you decide how many attunement slots to have, what armor you wanna wear, etcetcetc.


***edits***
sorry for the edits

I've survived with 1500hp and 0 poise with one of my melee build so i can rely on that. 1500 is enough to survive a backstab so i don't see a point in going any higher. Adjust? Most of my dual wielding builds can't parry so adjusting to no BSes is adaptable. Looks like i need to tweak it around a little more.

Good. It seems you have an edge on no backstabs...I thought I did though, boy did I lol.

For real though, if you got it you got it man.
Backstabs are a simple concept.

You want combustion-->black flame/WoG whatever man. Its all open I love it.

Its almost flexible considering the uses of dex and no dex concepts imo.


I'm just sayin chaos fireball-->WoG, is gonna change your stat allocation in comparison to a Force-->Black Flame-->Great Combustion combo for instance.

Figure out your desired combos, then figure out your dispersements.

Final version with silver tracer instead, 30 less HP which is insignificant compared to much higher critical. Dark Bead/GC work pretty much the same so you might want to add Fire Tempest or HCSM instead. Looks solid.

http://mugenmonkey.com/darksouls/?c=331241970808867145

Edit: Lower Str to 9.

That's pretty awesome! But i'm going to make this build a pure caster with no melee (too many melee builds already) so i'm gonna switch the DST to the Crest Shield. And i don't have the DLC on my other game disc so no Dark Magic or Black Flame for me. =(

http://mugenmonkey.com/darksouls/?c=382647660896379226
Lastly, Mugen is glitchin' out again. Crest Shield needs 10 Str but it seems to work on Mugen with 9 Str.

Thanks a lot, everyone!

WyrmHero wrote:Final version with silver tracer instead, 30 less HP which is insignificant compared to much higher critical. Dark Bead/GC work pretty much the same so you might want to add Fire Tempest or HCSM instead. Looks solid.

http://mugenmonkey.com/darksouls/?c=331241970808867145

Edit: Lower Str to 9.

Hmmm, again, where are the combos? WoG-->Dark Bead? Its a good combo, but you get 3, thats all

Great Chaos Fireball only gives you 4, and takes up 2 ring slots. Its aoe (lava) is tempting considering the inability to backstab though.
***EDIT***
In my version, its tempting in my version, not Wyrm's. His can backstab.

CSS is an end combo, not a standalone. The "tracker" soul arrows are much better, especially with dex.

Moves like:
BLACK FLAME(right hand)-->FORCE(left hand)-->Great Combustion(right hand) will devastate. Lock off Great Combustion and Dark Bead comboing will open new game play styles with little stat investment. Play off that.

You're still All power man and no edge. Whats the niche with this build?
***EDIT***
I seen Wyrm had a tracer in his hand, I dont know why it didnt register. Someone like Wyrm could very well use toxic as an edge. As well as backstabbing from combos.
This build plays for keeps so to speak, and is very powerful.

However...

...if you dont kill em quick a vet will $#%@ing murder you sometimes okay. If they are REALLY good and realize you can't backstab early in the fight, then get %$#%^ing ready bro...you're gonna be puttin in some mileage.
***EDIT***
I said this with Wyrm's spell combos in mind and not the tracer, thereby negating the fact his build HAD a backstab counter avaiable, when I was still in the frame of mind of not having a backstabable weapon equipped. My apologies.

The DWGR has its uses with this build. But not in a, "Oh thank you God" sorta way. It creates space and invunerability/time, take advantage of that.

Start asking yourself things like, "How am I going to not spam sh|t and still be cool???"

I have 18 Dark Beads bro. I use em all against you vets too. I do man, and not in a way you get pissed. You can tell 1 or 2 ain't really doin much to ya, so you dont care lol. They are my arrows man.

I just see 28 faith, 45 dex, 1500 hp, at soul level 150 and think, "How can I be murderin?!?!?! There has got to be inescapable combos......."

The improvement: Ops build tweak
***EDIT***
This is why I mispoke. The op's build only had the shield displaced and was not using a weapon. Therefore leading me to believe this was the op's desire.

Only because HCSM is inescapable. It will force your opponent to do something, like roll, eff up, block...you can use that. Like recastings for instance. :idea:

^ How's that different from mine? I forgot to switch the shield to the off-hand.
EDIT: Did you just copy/pasta my build with the exact same armor setup?

Automancer wrote:^ How's that different from mine? I forgot to switch the shield to the off-hand.
EDIT: Did you just copy/pasta my build with the exact same armor setup?

Yes I renamed it, which is why I said I thought yours was an improvement considering you used HCSM, which is a distraction spell vital to a caster build.

This is what I'd use if I were going to utilize dexterity. I wouldn't use a talisman or a weapon: Master Blaster

^1885hp when you're not tanking is honestly a waste. SMS is pointless for its casting time and short duration. It seems fine but how is that different from any of the other Pyro/Int builds with DB, DB, BF, DB, BF, DB? 36 Dex? Whaaa?! :shock:

Dex isn't necessary for quick casts like GC/ BF or Fire Surge since they're already fast on their own. It's usually for much slower spells like GCFB or Fire Tempest/Whip. Lower that Vit to 1590/1708 and lower your Dex for something else. Thieves or Sorcerers are better for caster builds than the Wanderer class. Saves you some stat points.

Automancer wrote:^1885hp when you're not tanking is honestly a waste. SMS is pointless for its casting time and short duration. It seems fine but how is that different from any of the other Pyro/Int builds with DB, DB, BF, DB, BF, DB? 36 Dex? Whaaa?! :shock:

Dex isn't necessary for quick casts like GC/ BF or Fire Surge since they're already fast on their own. It's usually for much slower spells like GCFB or Fire Tempest/Whip. Lower that Vit to 1590/1708 and lower your Dex for something else. Thieves or Sorcerers are better for caster builds than the Wanderer class. Saves you some stat points.

You are wrong on almost everything imo.

You will not survive with low health. You need to absorb chip shots, phantom damage, the whole nine yards.

The 36 dex is for the Chaos balls. Not GC or BF. You're missing the point.

I didnt pay attention to "wanderer class", that was my mistake.
And also, you are the one who wants dex, not me.
I've tried to talk you out of it from the start.

Read this and then decide...and pay attention to these threads:

Comprehensive survey of dexterity's impact on sorcery casting speed

Spell Combos



After reviewing this, I'd consider maybe 38-40 dex...you're right.
^^^with my build, the correct one.

Animaaal wrote:

Automancer wrote:^1885hp when you're not tanking is honestly a waste. SMS is pointless for its casting time and short duration. It seems fine but how is that different from any of the other Pyro/Int builds with DB, DB, BF, DB, BF, DB? 36 Dex? Whaaa?! :shock:

Dex isn't necessary for quick casts like GC/ BF or Fire Surge since they're already fast on their own. It's usually for much slower spells like GCFB or Fire Tempest/Whip. Lower that Vit to 1590/1708 and lower your Dex for something else. Thieves or Sorcerers are better for caster builds than the Wanderer class. Saves you some stat points.

You are wrong on almost everything imo.

You will not survive with low health. You need to absorb chip shots, phantom damage, the whole nine yards.

The 36 dex is for the Chaos balls. Not GC or BF. You're missing the point.

I didnt pay attention to "wanderer class", that was my mistake.
And also, you are the one who wants dex, not me.
I've tried to talk you out of it from the start.

Read this and then decide...and pay attention to these threads:

Comprehensive survey of dexterity's impact on sorcery casting speed

Spell Combos



After reviewing this, I'd consider maybe 38-40 dex...you're right.
^^^with my build, the correct one.

I was trying to be nice but whatever. There is no correct build.
Your build had absolutely no indications of GCB from the start. Only BF, SMS, DB and HCSM and 1 att of GFB. So you can't tell me i'm wrong when you yourself didn't mention it. I merely reference directly from what i see in builds and comment from there. If you didn't mention any other spells, then that's your own fault.

I get that you're trying to help but now all you're doing to stealing unneeded attention. I've done my own research before creating my builds and i've seen that video a long time ago and reference it. Either go low or go high. I'm not reliant on uber high HP to survive. 1590/1708 can get me far even with low def. Maybe it's you that needs to practice more.

I'm wrong in almost everything? Guess i should quit Dark Souls and stop playing with my builds and go for cookie-cutters.

Automancer wrote:...Your build had absolutely no indications of GCB from the start...

Oh thats right, you caught that thank you. I decided against it. I didn't think I needed the lava as a crutch, my apologies.

Automancer wrote:...I get that you're trying to help but now all you're doing to stealing unneeded attention....

Ummmmmmmmm after reading that all i can think is uh screw you, I was trying to help you, I'm not reading the rest.

You have absolutely no conception of what you’re in for, and its this:

You have to press R1, then up on the d-pad, then L2, then up on the d-pad (twice sometimes three times) aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand then start all over again while trying to avoid backstabs.

I assumed you knew this, that’s my fault. You have no idea what you’re in for. You’ve been warned.

Here’s the difference. Wyrm and Lunar.....will cream you. I on the other hand will give em a run for their money. I’ll also beat them a couple times with my combos and this broken a$$ playstyle, and really pi$$ em off when I do it lol.

You obviously haven't read what I've said from the start, I have no mercy for you.

Animaaal wrote:...1) I'd seriously consider the value your putting on dexterity and casting speed. If using dexterity, I'd consider using a rapier or dagger for backstabs and making a build that focuses on castings, but is not a pure caster....

Just so there's no confusion, this is the very first thing I said to you.

Animaaal wrote:

Automancer wrote:...Your build had absolutely no indications of GCB from the start...

Oh thats right, you caught that thank you. I decided against it. I didn't think I needed the lava as a crutch, my apologies.

Automancer wrote:...I get that you're trying to help but now all you're doing to stealing unneeded attention....

Ummmmmmmmm after reading that all i can think is uh screw you, I was trying to help you, I'm not reading the rest.

You have absolutely no conception of what you’re in for, and its this:

You have to press R1, then up on the d-pad, then L2, then up on the d-pad (twice sometimes three times) aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand then start all over again while trying to avoid backstabs.

I assumed you knew this, that’s my fault. You have no idea what you’re in for. You’ve been warned.

Here’s the difference. Wyrm and Lunar.....will cream you. I on the other hand will give em a run for their money. I’ll also beat them a couple times with my combos and this broken a$$ playstyle, and really pi$$ em off when I do it lol.

You obviously haven't read what I've said from the start, I have no mercy for you.

EVERYTHING I SAY IS CORRECT! ALL I SAY IS RIGHT AND YOUR'S IS UTTER BULLSH!T!
NOTHING YOU SAY IS VALID BECAUSE I KNOW MORE THAN YOU AND I'M MLG720YOLOSWAG THAT WREKS PEOPLE CUZ I'M BETTER THAN YOU!
SCREW YOUR OPINIONS AND LISTEN TO ME!


Right? I'm guessing this is why most people hate casters. They 'wreck' everyone, right? If you don't wreck you suck, right? LOL.
I normally don't get agitated but screw this. I'm done with it.

Mods, please close this thread if you can. Before this gets out of hand.

I dont think i said anything at all to deserve that until I said screw you.

I didnt want attention, and wasnt at all saying you were wrong in general only in generalzations.

You're way off base about the amount of skill it takes to move your left thumb from the joystick to the d-pad several times in quick sequence.

You'll beat noobs, good for you, but you won't beat us....sorry

If you're kind of fun is just to win then good luck in life.

Automancer wrote:If you're kind of fun is just to win then good luck in life.

What??? Oh well, good luck dude.

And to anyone reading this, a pure caster will change you. Imagine not backstabbing, and cycling your left thumb from the joystick to the d-pad...

Its a very different Dark Souls playstyle and not to be taken lightly.

My sig has some really good links.

In post #34, I accidentally mistook Wyrmhero's build for the build I spoke of and/or the op spoke of, when I was comparing my own build and not his. I misrepresented a couple statements, I'll re-edit them.

***EDIT***

The edits in post #34 are red.

You can clearly see I get my wires crossed a little when comparing a spellsword to a pure caster. It was unitentional, and I was distracted by trying to address my comments to the op and not the person I quoted.

Other than that, I have read and reread this, I don't understand the attitude and hope anyone who has questions regarding using no weapons, none, zip, nada, has gained some insight.

If not, again, there are some great conversations about these subjects in the threads in my sig.

For anyone still interested, this is what a pure caster looks like in action: Pure Caster - Pure caster PvP (video) - Page 2
The video is on page one of the thread, but the movie blocks the thread link ability.