You abort a baby. Please say i'm wrong
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35 posters
a horrific realization
EarthScraper- Addicted
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- Post n°1
a horrific realization
Today i killed the Bed of Chaos after my 5th damn attempt, and noticed something...horrific. to kill the bed of chaos, you need to go down a tunnel to get to the weak point, fair enough. but i looked closer (really wish i didn't), and noticed that the 'weak point' is a small, living thing. the tunnel, you go down is the, well, uterus of a women, and the little creature is a fetus of a chaos demon. The bed of chaos is the source of all demons, a.k.a The Mother
You abort a baby. Please say i'm wrong
You abort a baby. Please say i'm wrong
Rynn- Chosen Undead
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- Post n°2
Re: a horrific realization
I think you're looking into things too deeply.
EarthScraper- Addicted
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- Post n°3
Re: a horrific realization
i think i need help
BeeSeaEss- Caffeinated
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- Post n°4
Re: a horrific realization
Oh Gosh, yes ik what you're talking about. It's really creepy. :suspect:
Demon Slayer- Hollowed
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- Post n°5
Re: a horrific realization
so i have been killing a fetus?
i feel bad
i feel bad
skarekrow13- Chat Moderator
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- Post n°6
Re: a horrific realization
It's more likely the transformed Witch but that is a creepy theory. On par with plague and skelly babies
GrinTwist- Chosen Undead
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- Post n°7
Re: a horrific realization
I don't think that's the case, I don't think it would make much sense that BoC would die if you killed it's fetus, it would suffer damage of course but it wouldn't die automatically. If anything what you hit is an oddly shaped heart.
Orango19- Addicted
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- Post n°8
Re: a horrific realization
What if the soul the Witch used was the soul of the fetus inside her womb?
She wanted to create a new Flame inside herself, to make her power limitless and greater than the other Lords.
She wanted to create a new Flame inside herself, to make her power limitless and greater than the other Lords.
Hue- Insomniac
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- Post n°9
Re: a horrific realization
EarthScraper wrote:Today i killed the Bed of Chaos after my 5th damn attempt, and noticed something...horrific. to kill the bed of chaos, you need to go down a tunnel to get to the weak point, fair enough. but i looked closer (really wish i didn't), and noticed that the 'weak point' is a small, living thing. the tunnel, you go down is the, well, uterus of a women, and the little creature is a fetus of a chaos demon. The bed of chaos is the source of all demons, a.k.a The Mother
You abort a baby. Please say i'm wrong
holy **** how come i never had this idea before?
Acarnatia- Caffeinated
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- Post n°10
Re: a horrific realization
I think the mass of wood and fire that attacks the Chosen Undead from above the Bed of Chaos is just an extension of the BoC-a puppet for it, not another creature. On the other hand, the story of the first Earthbound game can be said to have an abortion themed-kill regarding the final boss, and game creators have been using a lot of baby monsters in recent years.
Orango19- Addicted
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- Post n°11
Re: a horrific realization
Acarnatia wrote:I think the mass of wood and fire that attacks the Chosen Undead from above the Bed of Chaos is just an extension of the BoC-a puppet for it, not another creature. On the other hand, the story of the first Earthbound game can be said to have an abortion themed-kill regarding the final boss, and game creators have been using a lot of baby monsters in recent years.
I always considered the Wooden Giant creature to be the Witch, in the Intro you can clearly see she is kinda gigantic.
This makes sense if you consider the theme of Birth and the BoC being the Mother of the Demons.
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- Post n°12
Re: a horrific realization
well that's disturbing but it makes sense.
DoughGuy- Duke's Archivist
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- Post n°13
Re: a horrific realization
You get the soul of the witch from killing the bug and her daughters were also tranformed into bug like things. There's no reason to think the bug is anything but the witch herself.
Orango19- Addicted
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- Post n°14
Re: a horrific realization
DoughGuy wrote:You get the soul of the witch from killing the bug and her daughters were also tranformed into bug like things. There's no reason to think the bug is anything but the witch herself.
You get ONE soul for killing FOUR Kings.
Why can't we get One soul for killing Mommy-and-her-Baby?
"Soul of the Bed of Chaos and the mother of all demons. This Lord Soul was found at the dawn of the Age of Fire.
The Witch of Izalith attempted to duplicate the First Flame from a soul, but instead created a distorted being of chaos and fire. Its power formed a bed of life which would become the source for all demons, and is more than enough to satiate the Lordvessel."
It is not stated anywhere it is just the Soul of the Witch. Just the soul of the BoC.
And maybe when a baby is still inside their mother's womb, they share the same soul? LOL I don't know, there isn't any clear definition on how you get your own soul in any culture afair.
Acarnatia- Caffeinated
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- Post n°15
Re: a horrific realization
Except the BoC's soul isn't what is needed to satiate the Lordvessal; the LORD'S SOULS are required. As for why we only get one soul for the Four Kings, that's because the together only had part of a Lord's Soul. Actually, that description sounds more like the BoC IS the Witch of Izalith. Between the two, there is only one Lord's soul; therefore, if that soul (the Lord's Soul that we gain by killing the BoC) is the soul of both of them, they must be the same being.
Orango19- Addicted
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- Post n°16
Re: a horrific realization
IMO, it sounds more like the second part of the description is telling the origin on the Soul owner. Pretty much how they handle the 4Kings soul description on the second paragraph.
Now back to the BoC Lord Soul for further analyze:
It could be broken grammar, but the first sentence may be referring to two different beings. Why I think that is simply because it uses the world MOTHER, a feminine word. So when they get back to talking about the Witch (IF she was the sole owner of the soul) they would user "HER power formed a bed of life..." instead of "ITS power formed a..."
Considering she is the only female with a Lord Soul, we can't be sure about what happens when a Lord gets pregnant. Does she splits her soul with her baby or whatever? She already had her other children by the time she found the Lord Soul; so the BoC could be the sole example of another life being formed inside a Lord.
The Bug is also in a fetal position if you are gentle enough to look at it before stabbing it to death.
---
The Flames started to fade. The Witch was pregnant, she saw the opportunity to create a new Flame, and also make sure she was the new Great Lord, with the strongest soul.
To prevent other from claiming souls from her "Second Flame", she decided to use the soul of the baby inside her womb to duplicate the First Flame. Her womb would become sort of a private Kiln, with unlimited power.
**** happened. She created a monster. The baby's power created a Bed of Life inside her womb (kinda corrupted Kiln, yeah), and also some sort of Second Flame; the Chaos Flame (source of Pyromancy). The Chaos Flame corrupted everyone in a radius, creating demons. That includes the Witch of Izalith.
She was transformed in some sort of huge *** tree-like giant. Her branches and roots went as far as the Firelink Altar. Just to prove the extend of the BoC's power. (However it is pretty clear the Altar have Izalith architecture, so it's not a very great feat to reach there.) Oh yeah, and while she was transforming, the Baby and the Mother were connected; so if the Baby died, so would she.
Bequeathed Lord Soul Shard.
"Soul of one of the Four Kings, who fell to Dark. A fragment of a Lord Souls discovered at the dawn of the Age of Fire.
Lord Gwyn recognized the foresight of these four great leaders of New Londo, and granted them their ranks and the fragments of a great soul. Although this is not a full Lord Soul, it can still satiate the Lord Vessel."
Now back to the BoC Lord Soul for further analyze:
Lord Soul.
"Soul of the Bed of Chaos and the mother of all demons. This Lord Soul was found at the dawn of the Age of Fire.
The Witch of Izalith attempted to duplicate the First Flame from a soul, but instead created a distorted being of chaos and fire. Its power formed a bed of life which would become the source for all demons, and is more than enough to satiate the Lordvessel."
It could be broken grammar, but the first sentence may be referring to two different beings. Why I think that is simply because it uses the world MOTHER, a feminine word. So when they get back to talking about the Witch (IF she was the sole owner of the soul) they would user "HER power formed a bed of life..." instead of "ITS power formed a..."
Considering she is the only female with a Lord Soul, we can't be sure about what happens when a Lord gets pregnant. Does she splits her soul with her baby or whatever? She already had her other children by the time she found the Lord Soul; so the BoC could be the sole example of another life being formed inside a Lord.
The Bug is also in a fetal position if you are gentle enough to look at it before stabbing it to death.
---
The Flames started to fade. The Witch was pregnant, she saw the opportunity to create a new Flame, and also make sure she was the new Great Lord, with the strongest soul.
To prevent other from claiming souls from her "Second Flame", she decided to use the soul of the baby inside her womb to duplicate the First Flame. Her womb would become sort of a private Kiln, with unlimited power.
**** happened. She created a monster. The baby's power created a Bed of Life inside her womb (kinda corrupted Kiln, yeah), and also some sort of Second Flame; the Chaos Flame (source of Pyromancy). The Chaos Flame corrupted everyone in a radius, creating demons. That includes the Witch of Izalith.
She was transformed in some sort of huge *** tree-like giant. Her branches and roots went as far as the Firelink Altar. Just to prove the extend of the BoC's power. (However it is pretty clear the Altar have Izalith architecture, so it's not a very great feat to reach there.) Oh yeah, and while she was transforming, the Baby and the Mother were connected; so if the Baby died, so would she.
Shkar- Revived
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- Post n°17
Re: a horrific realization
I have to admit, it seems crazy, and I honestly seems so far-fetched that I couldn't see From actually intending it...
However, there is enough diction choices that one could make a surprisingly sufficient literary analysis of it...
However, there is enough diction choices that one could make a surprisingly sufficient literary analysis of it...
Ashran- Obsessed
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- Post n°18
Re: a horrific realization
After reading this thread:
the more i read about this game and its lore the more darker it gets.
the more i read about this game and its lore the more darker it gets.
Hugh_G_Johnson- Caffeinated
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- Post n°19
Re: a horrific realization
I have my doubts... However, it would prove me right. I've always maintained that the BoC is a certain 4-letter word. :silent: You also have to play with two globes to gain access to the lower region...
Deathsitexxi- Addicted
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- Post n°20
Re: a horrific realization
Lots of incoming text.. I did an analysis of something simular to this please read if you're interested.
That’s just my analysis feel free to pick it apart and enjoy the mass speculation =)
- Spoiler:
- Witch of Izalith
In my first post I speculated that
“If what I’ve said about the Lords Souls
and Dark Soul reign true then this would explain why the Witch of Izalith
attempted to recreate the first flame and why it failed. Over the passing of
time, Gwyn and the others along with the flame started to lose their power.
With the Dark Soul, the power to sustain/maintain, out of their reach (due to
the splitting) she attempted to recreate the first flame which; in turn, would
recreate the Lords Souls and the Dark Soul. This is what I believe distorted
the “flow of time” that we read about on the white soap stone. If time already
exists what happens if you attempt to create time again? Chaos and the
distortion of the current time, thus creating alternative planes of existence.
“
I’d like to try and use some things I’ve
found to help support this…. Firstly, I’d like us to look at some of Qualaana’s
dialogue.
“… Hmmm…
I have a favour to ask…
My mother, the Witch of Izalith, was one of the primeval Lords*1*…
Her power came from the soul that she found near the First Flame.
..She focused this power to light a
flame of her own, but she failed to control it*2*. The Flame of Chaos engulfed Mother
and my sisters, and molded them into deformed creatures.
Only I escaped, and now I am here.*3*But my mother and sisters have been in anguish since.
I beseech you. Free Mother and my sisters from the Flame of Chaos*4*.
I cannot do it myself; I lack the strength, and the bravery…
…But you…
I realize what I am asking. But please, free their pour souls…
Mother's ambitions were misguided, no
doubt, but surely a thousand years of atonement is enough**!”
1.
I just wanted to
put this in here. They use the word primeval a lot in this game and the fact
that Qualaana is the only NPC that I know of that calls them this.. I thought
it was interesting to note. She was there during the Dragon Wars/Intro etc….
She knows exactly what happened during these times
2.
I always see people
say that the Witch failed in creating her own flame but she did not. She only
failed in controlling it. And that flame still exists! Which continues to
distort time….
3.
Later in this thread I’m going to speculate
that Gwyn and his knights never made it to the bed of Chaos and that they only
beat back the Chaos demons back to the Ruins. I’m also going to speculate later
that this is one of his reasons to link the flame (fix the time
distortion/sustain his immortality) more to come on that……. However, the 2
branches we cut right before we take care of the bug in the bed of chaos are
likely (it’s been speculated before, I didn’t come up with this) 2 of the chaos
daughters. I believe they (this is the part I came up with) are there for the very
reason Qualaana says her mother failed.
They sacrificed themselves to control
what their mother had become..which was not…. The Bed of Chaos… I’ll talk about
this at the end….
4.
We defeat the Bed
of Chaos, but do we ever see this Flame of Chaos? The bonfire that pops when
you defeat the bed looks like a normal bonfire to me…. Is the Chaos flame
located somewhere else? However…. Even the “First Flame” in the Kiln looks like
a normal bonfire so…….Again, I’ll talk about this at the end….
5.
I think this line supports
what I was saying above about the Witches reasoning to recreate the first flame
(see above). However, like anything in this game, I know this line doesn’t
prove anything… I could try and bend it to support anything I claim… sooo with
that said take it with a grain of salt =)
Now let’s
look at some Pyromancy =D
I specifically
wanted to talk about Undead Rapport because I see Shkar always fighting people
about “undead” being alive. And I’ve never argued that, undead is just a name
that people with the darksign are given meaning they are without true death.
But, this item description supports exactly what he’s saying…..
Undead Rapport:
Advanced pyromancy of Quelana of Izalith.
Charm Undead and gain temporary allies.
The living are lured by flame, and this
relationship is part and parcel to the art of
pyromancy. Can be used by either gender.
It clearly says “Charm the Undead” and in the line right
underneath it, it states “the LIVING are lured by flame”. I think that pretty
much sums it up lol.
Here is where things get a little tricky…. So we just said..
“the living are lured by flame” and because of this we were saying
Undead=living yadda yadda… but read this!
Fireball:
Standard pyromancy of the Great Swamp.
Hurl fireball.
The fire damage caused by fireballs makes
them effective against corporeal beasts and
Undead, who by nature fear flame.
So wait? What? They
are lured by the flame or they fear it?? Which is it man!?!?! I think what they
mean here is…. They fear the flame when it is used as a weapon, the power is
used against them..,however; they are lured by this same power if they believe
they can wield it.
Next let’s
look at the upgraded pyromancy glove….
Upgraded Pyromancy Glove:
Pyromancy flame drawing upon the latent power
of Quelana of Izalith, mother of pyromancy.
For the pyromancer, a flame is a precious
thing indeed, to be nurtured, often for an
entire lifetime. When the flame is shared, it
creates an eternal bond between the parties.
So Quelana created
Pyromancy… it says here she’s the “mother” of it…. Strangely enough she calls
the Witch of Izalith her “mother”. Hmmmmmm…. Let’s look at the Lords Soul
Description really quick….
Bed of Chaos Lord’s Soul:
Soul of the Bed of Chaos and the mother
of all demons. This Lord Soul was found
at the dawn of the Age of Fire.
The Witch of Izalith attempted to duplicate
the First Flame from a soul, but instead
created a distorted being of chaos and fire.
Its power formed a bed of life which would
become the source of all demons, and is more
than enough to satiate the Lordvessel.
So from this
description, it pretty much tells us that… the Witch of Izalith is not the Bed
of Chaos… She is the Bed of Life from which demons were born…..Yes she’s that
big *** distorted tree looking creature.. but… that’s not the Bed of Chaos
either… It’s that bug… The bug is the Chaos Flame, the bug is the distorted
being of chaos and fire. From what it looks like the bug is the physical
manifestation of her Lord’s Soul…. This was the product of her attempt to
recreate the First Flame… The item description is kinda confusing but bear with
me and let’s pick it apart….
1.
The Lord’s Soul is the Soul of the Bed of
Chaos…and the Bed of Chaos is the mother of all demons… ok we get that….
2.
It also says the Lord Soul was found at the dawn
of the Age of Fire, but it does not specifically say by whom. Why not? Because
we already know? Let’s keep reading…
3.
The Witch of Izalith attempted to duplicate the
First Flame from a soul, but
instead created a distorted being of chaos and fire.
4.
Its
power (meaning the power of the being of chaos and fire The Chaos
Flame, The Bed of Chaos, the physical manifestation of the Lords Soul) formed a bed of life which would become the source of
all demons.
So what do we know about the Dark Souls universe. That they
love the Yin and Yang idea… So if the Bed of Chaos was created then of course a
Bed of Life would also be created. The Witch of Izalith was that Bed of Life,
hence; it’s not until we kill the bug hiding within the Bed of Life does the
Bed of Chaos die. So because the Bed of Chaos created the Bed of Life, it’s power would be seen as the source, however; the bed of life would be seen the mother of all demons because she is the point from where they all originate.
That’s just my analysis feel free to pick it apart and enjoy the mass speculation =)
Orango19- Addicted
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- Post n°21
Re: a horrific realization
The Bed of Chaos is a Bed of Life.
The First Flame is a bed of life too. It created all life.
The Flame of Chaos also created life; but life already existed, and so it distorted the already existing life; that's why people call this Bed of Life; the Bed of Chaos.
The First Flame is a bed of life too. It created all life.
The Flame of Chaos also created life; but life already existed, and so it distorted the already existing life; that's why people call this Bed of Life; the Bed of Chaos.
FattyOfDoom- Obsessed
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- Post n°22
Re: a horrific realization
The Lord Soul can be broken and given to others, maybe the witch gave it to her fetus before she died....?Acarnatia wrote:Except the BoC's soul isn't what is needed to satiate the Lordvessal; the LORD'S SOULS are required. As for why we only get one soul for the Four Kings, that's because the together only had part of a Lord's Soul. Actually, that description sounds more like the BoC IS the Witch of Izalith. Between the two, there is only one Lord's soul; therefore, if that soul (the Lord's Soul that we gain by killing the BoC) is the soul of both of them, they must be the same being.
Acarnatia- Caffeinated
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- Post n°23
Re: a horrific realization
The first flame created souls, not life. The dragons definitely existed before the First Flame, and the intro says "Then, from the Dark, they came, and found the souls of Lords within the Flame." Life existed outside of Fire and found Fire.
Orango19- Addicted
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- Post n°24
Re: a horrific realization
Arcanatia, you are a little lost. lol
Miyazaki stated dragons aren't alive. They are kinda like part of nature. Soulless.
Now for all your other statements, I have this:
But then there was FIRE... Life and Death... and of course Light and Dark.
You are mixing Light and Fire as the same thing. heh
Miyazaki stated dragons aren't alive. They are kinda like part of nature. Soulless.
Now for all your other statements, I have this:
But then there was FIRE... Life and Death... and of course Light and Dark.
You are mixing Light and Fire as the same thing. heh
Animaaal- Compulsory Poster
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- Post n°25
Re: a horrific realization
Wow. I never realized... :shock:
"I enter the entrance to the start of the beginning of the Bed of Chaos.
I am nervous...tense...STIFF as a board.
I am full of excitement, but yet nervous like a school boy. The tension builds.....and builds.....and then, THERE I AM!!! I slide deeeep into the hole of no return! Its too late now. A part of me wants to turn back, but the excitement is too much for me to handle.
I could have said no before, but now that I have thrust myself into the grand and glorious shaft of euphoric bliss I continue forth! Like an Animaaal I slide back and forth and back and forth and back and forth....
Why? I know not. I know my pleasure will most likely be temporary...but yet I go on.
It's as if instinct itself has taken over.
To the end I come and...AND....AND THEN I..."
...I dont remember what happens after. :bom:
"I enter the entrance to the start of the beginning of the Bed of Chaos.
I am nervous...tense...STIFF as a board.
I am full of excitement, but yet nervous like a school boy. The tension builds.....and builds.....and then, THERE I AM!!! I slide deeeep into the hole of no return! Its too late now. A part of me wants to turn back, but the excitement is too much for me to handle.
I could have said no before, but now that I have thrust myself into the grand and glorious shaft of euphoric bliss I continue forth! Like an Animaaal I slide back and forth and back and forth and back and forth....
Why? I know not. I know my pleasure will most likely be temporary...but yet I go on.
It's as if instinct itself has taken over.
To the end I come and...AND....AND THEN I..."
...I dont remember what happens after. :bom:
Last edited by Animaaal on Fri Mar 29, 2013 2:33 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : shpelling)
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