a horrific realization

Animaaal wrote:Wow. I never realized... :shock:

"I enter the entrance to the start of the beginning of the Bed of Chaos.
I am nervous...tense...STIFF as a board.

I am full of excitement, but yet nervous like a school boy. The tension builds.....and builds.....and then, THERE I AM!!! I slide deeeep into the hole of no return! Its too late now. A part of me wants to turn back, but the excitement is too much for me to handle.

I could have said no before, but now that I have thrust myself into the grand and glorious shaft of euphoric bliss I continue forth! Like an Animaaal I slide back and forth and back and forth and back and forth....

Why? I no not. I know my pleasure will most likely be temporary...but yet I go on.
It's as if instinct itself has taken over.

To the end I come and...AND....AND THEN I..."

...I dont remember what happens after. :bom:

:shock: WHAT HAPPENENED?

Just to point out the obvious while she is described as the "mother of all demons" or whatever that doesn't necessarily mean she gave birth to them all in the conventional sense - more than likely they were corrupted when she created chaos.
However its position does suggest its a fetus so i think perhaps the which was pregnant when she created chaos and that was what you got. Its worth noting that the BoC doesn't stop attacking until you kill the bug within so perhaps the 2 people were somehow attached together when chaos struck. kind of like siamese twins.
On the question of morality as yourself this:
If you could go back in time and kill Hitler as a baby would you do it?

samster628 wrote:...If you could go back in time and kill Hitler as a baby would you do it?...

No. Sin is not found until adulthood. Fate is an illusion and is outside the realm of our understanding and comprehension.

Interesting question.

Watch Looper for a tremendous answer to that question^

On topic I stand by my Wizard of Oz comparison for BoC.

Oh god. I think OP's right...

I think the overall concept here is more akin to that of the Old One, similar as to how King Allant was warped and twisted into a blob of demonic energy, it's likely that the small demon spawn inside the Bed Of Chaos IS the Witch of Izalith, as it's literally located right next to a bonfire, and as the lore says, the Witch tried to duplicate the first flame and as a result, we got an entity very similar to the Old One.

Curious, to say the least.

Even though I'm pro-life this is so artistic and Dark.

I love it.

Well, if you think about it, the wooden "Legs" do nothing but sweeping attacks and pundings, while the magical "Arms" do the sweeping and actual homing attacks....

Kind of reminds me of world 5 from Demon's Souls. Something like this was brought up about Valley of Defilement and the Plague babies and such... you have to remember that Blighttown through to the Demon Ruins and Lost Izalith is much like World 5... maybe it is a fetus. o.o

oh my god how did i not see this? i feel really dumb now and a little scarred for life

I always thought you were going in to destroy BoC's heart, and when the witch was changed the beast grew around her, putting her at the eye of the storm, becoming the monsters "Brains" Explains how it knows where to protect itself from people who have the Lord Vessel...

:suspect:

Orango19 wrote:Miyazaki stated dragons aren't alive. They are kinda like part of nature. Soulless.

But then there was FIRE... Life and Death... and of course Light and Dark.

Wait, I'm confused because if the dragons aren't alive, a part of nature like a rock which in the video you see the dragon's body looks like it's part of a stone, then what dafuq made them all of the sudden be able to move and fly? I mean if they were part of nature, why dafuq would their body need wings and the anatomical structure of their body in the first place? to me they seem like they're alive like a venus flytrap, just chillin til shhht gets real.

Also if life came from the first flame, then why does it say in the video that "then from the dark, they came" that sounds like they've[the giants/hollows, we see in the video, before ascending into godhood] been just chillin in the dark... I think what it means is the the flame created a contrast in reality(if you were born and grew up living the dark, would you call it the dark since that would be your standard perception of reality and there's nothing to compare it to, it's not the dark, it just is). You couldn't really die before, or "live" for that matter, you just EXISTED in that space and maybe "time" was also created since there was never a need to measure your existence or actions or anything for that matter. "life" was one, or nothing really. So, when it says it create life and death... this seems to be implying more of a metaphysical sense and that there's now an actual essence to "living", rather than it created lifeforms. The first flame sounds kinda like the mythos archetype of pandora box. There was no evil or sin before, so "morality" meant jack shhht, or when Eve took a bite from the apple in Genesis, and then she was self-aware of being self-aware.

Besides, isn't Miyazaki the same mothafuqa who advised people to use the damn pendant

It also says that the flame created light and dark, so if life came from the dark, logically it would have to come after the flame.

well that was sorta my point, what i'm debating is the flame just DEFINED some of the terms of reality... it's like there all living in the dark and someone who, from another world/dimension/universe who has what our world offers in terms of knowing light and dark contrast, comes into contact with them and says "dafuq you guys livin in the DARK for?", there response would be, "Dafuq is DARK"

actually the way i think about it is similar to Plato's Allegory of the Cave... if anyone has not read it, please do, it is a fuqn requirement to put your thinking caps on, (I haven't thought about that phrase since grade school hahaha) but this would be also similar to how we experience mushrooms, DMT, mescaline, LSA, iboga, ect.... it is a break in the DEFINITIONS of reality, of what IS....

Dark Souls is ridiculous with fantasy, science fiction, and meta-philosophy.... this whole first flame thing is starting to make me think of Aldous Huxley's "The Doors of Perception" another great work

The flame also created heat and cold, and I can't even begin to think of a situation where someone couldn't know the difference between the two. Not to mention Plato's allegorical cave-dwellers would still know the difference of light and darkness.There's also the issue of evolution not having a reason to give an underground race eyes.

I get that you were just comparing the two, but it can't be the way it actually is. The two just aren't compatible, much like how the first living things weren't immortal until death struck; they may not of had a concept of death, but there was certainly non-living material to compare to.

But if the world was in a neutral state, then couldn't the flame bring a change in the climate, temperature and environment? All of the sudden from "being born and living" in a constant and unchanging world to variation, which could include temp, added to the equation then wouldn't there now be a realization of temp?

As for the whole anatomy/bio-evolution issue, I thought as to how the dragons are a part of nature and they look like stone statues in the vid, how would they all of the sudden be animated, not to mention something much more dense than stone being capable of flight?(Except some are perplexed as to how the bee is able to take flight, since mathematically and mostly due body and wing proportions seems impossible.) why would they need a mouth, wings, eyes, ect...?

I understand your point but I'm just trying not to cram the pieces together hahaha but I can't help it

Stone dragons fly the same way that stone archtrees grow continents. They just do.

EverlastingRat wrote:But if the world was in a neutral state, then couldn't the flame bring a change in the climate, temperature and environment? All of the sudden from "being born and living" in a constant and unchanging world to variation, which could include temp, added to the equation then wouldn't there now be a realization of temp?

As for the whole anatomy/bio-evolution issue, I thought as to how the dragons are a part of nature and they look like stone statues in the vid, how would they all of the sudden be animated, not to mention something much more dense than stone being capable of flight?(Except some are perplexed as to how the bee is able to take flight, since mathematically and mostly due body and wing proportions seems impossible.) why would they need a mouth, wings, eyes, ect...?

I understand your point but I'm just trying not to cram the pieces together hahaha but I can't help it

The simple act of being alive consumes energy, which results in a heat gradient. Life cannot exist without some form of difference, much like chemistry can not, as it requires positive and negative forces.

As such, the dragons would not have existed before the flame more than anything else would have. They may, instead of "life", be a form of "living stone"; not alive, but a sort of demi-awareness. Or perhaps the analogy comparing them to a force of nature is referring to their power, not their essence. After all, the bridge wyvern and Kalameet are certainly strong enough that their coming would be worse than most tornados or earthquakes. As for the bee issue, that's an urban legend. Some mathematician announced that bees shouldn't be able to fly while he was drunk, and the rumor never died. Dragons can fly just as easily as any other massive bird could; perhaps easier, since we see that they can breath fire, which likely heats the air around them a decent amount.

I've said it before; they cut a lot of content due to a lack of time. It is entirely possible that the intro cinematic was not their original vision so much as it is something they cobbled together out of in-game assets.

to the devs then:



DE5PA1R destroyed any arguments...hahahahaha

I need to stop reading this threads. I need to sleep time to time.

Fetus, not fetus. It doesn't matter. The point is, I am NEVER killing BoC bare handed EVER again.

Ooooohhhhhh the morilistic people.

Werdax wrote:Fetus, not fetus. It doesn't matter. The point is, I am NEVER killing BoC bare handed EVER again.

Lol!

Spoiler:

Why do we have problems with killing inherently evil demon babies in a fictional video game?

EverlastingRat wrote:

Orango19 wrote:Miyazaki stated dragons aren't alive. They are kinda like part of nature. Soulless.

But then there was FIRE... Life and Death... and of course Light and Dark.

Wait, I'm confused because if the dragons aren't alive, a part of nature like a rock which in the video you see the dragon's body looks like it's part of a stone, then what dafuq made them all of the sudden be able to move and fly?

The First Flame gave them life. There was no life before the flame, just everlasting dragons and archtrees. The land was unformed. Now, when the "undead" came from the darkness, this could be implying some there were empty shells and bodies just lying about in the darkness, but nothing to animate them. This could have all happened before and the Age of Man could have run its course and they destroyed the world as they knew it somehow. Then it all started over again.

Nito was the first of the dead, so he was the first to die and experience death. Maybe he gained some kind of crazy enlightenment from that and took over as Death Mandingo?

I'm more curious as to WHY the lords attacked the dragons in the first place. It doesn't say anything about the dragons causing a ruckus or anything. So for all we know, they were just sitting there being everlasting and stuff and the lords got jelly and were like, "Well fudge these guys! If we can't be immortal, no one can!" And Seath was obviously jelly of not being immortal as well, so he's like, "YEAH! What they said!"

I dunno. I freaking love this game.