For the Glory of Alvina

Well to be fair Sif is an incredibly easy boss to dodge, or even just block. In fact with a Great Shield that battle is a joke, I'd say easier than gaping dragon really. That is why it is easy to tell if a person should be summoning a phantom there or not. Do they know how to dodge your attacks? Chances are they are a farmer or duellist. Do they eat your attack then dodge away and flask? Probably someone new.

befowler wrote:I've got two builds in the forest right now (PS3): a 110 faith build, and a 120 int build. I've been having an extreme amount of fun with the int build now that I have the crystal spells on it. CSS actually tracks around trees, which is hilarious, and the build synergies really nicely with the use of the channeler's trident on the mobs/other phantoms. This has really helped me deal with my greatest point of anger in the forest: sunbro farmers. I love jolly coop and the sunbro covenant, and to see it perverted by sunbro farmers in the forest makes me rage like nothing else. I had a sunbro phantom in there actually bow to me and I just fed him a CSS, this is the first time I've ever been "that guy" when it comes to gesture exploits. I regret nothing.

At some point we should try a truce where sunbros refuse to coop in there, the odds of actually getting a noob making a run on Sif are so tiny they are almost all farmers. I refuse to take my sunbro chars in there.

befowler - I agree with u completely. I look at Sunbro's as what should be a good rather than evil influence on the game. They are supposed to aid a host on achieving a positive objective (killing a Sif for instance) and not aiding in farming.

I second that - kill all Sunbros who have perverted their purpose in the game.

Had a nice fight just a few min ago.
I invaded a guy who had 2 phantoms and tried banging me 3v1.
I lured them to the mushroom daddys and 2 daddys took out a phantom, i then used my chaos firestorm to finish the other and pivot bs the host! it was so epic i thought i was done for for sure .

Also made it to forest hunter +2 lol.

Yeah I had a really bad but awesome one in there last night. Came across the host with my int build, standing near the stairs. Seems to be alone. He bows, so I bow. Just as we start, a sunbro pops out of a bush behind one of the trees and tries to backstab me. I managed to ninja roll out of the way, and line the sunbro up for a CSS. He rolls, so I give it a second then start to fire. Just as I do, another CSS comes in from another direction from another forest hunter running in! We hit the sunbro from two sides at the same time, he dies, and I get over 1 million souls so he must have been huge level. We both auger in on the host and he disconnects! Haha, losers.

Also, here a few other potential tips/tricks I noticed the last few days:

1) If you stand on the cliff near the spot where you can jump into the lower basin, you will see a bit of an alcove where you can pretty much hide yourself. Better still, if you face back towards the forest and then rotate your camera slowly to the left, at a certain point you can clip through the wall and see almost all the way to the stairs. It's a great way to hide there and see people coming from that direction way before they see you. I use it to annoy, but if they're running close to the wall thinking they're safe, it's also perfect for fire tempest fun.

2) I'm using my first pure INT build in there now, so I apologize if this is old news. But it looks to me like a CSS completely negates poise. In other words, it seems to stagger people regardless of their armor. I've staggered full havels and giants guys with a single CSS, and am currently trying to find one with a wolf ring on to see if even that doesn't save them. Now why this matters is because poise doesn't seem to regenerate instantly. Rather, it seems to operate like your bleed or poison bar, in that once it is gone it only comes back slowly. I have been using a LH logan's catalyst / RH lightning claymore setup. If I hit someone with a CSS, it staggers them and then I can immediately stunlock the crap out of them with the claymore. It's like their poise simply disappears. I killed three havel flippers this way last night and it was unbelievable, like they were wearing robes or something. Better still, they tend to panic and have no idea how to get out of it.

3) I suspect there is a way to hit people down in the main area with a dragonslayer bow from atop the Moonlight Butterfly's parapet. This only matters if you jump down into the basin in the first place and nobody follows you. But I ran all the way up there last night, and then took a left to the near end of the parapet where the edge of the rampart is broken. The range is extreme and you have to hit them on the down curve of the bolt as it loses velocity, but I am pretty sure I hit someone last night. You can't really see anyone from up that high, so I was aiming at the damage msgs I saw when they were fighting another forest cov member near the stairs. Similarly, if you jump down into the basin but then run back up the path and turn around, you can fire arrows back up into the treants etc. I was using a pharis bow and the hawk ring. Good, good times

That double css hit sounds damn epic, no one can survive that haha.
Also 1mil souls damn thats alot, highest i ever get is like 50k.
Pretty cool that the host d/c'd he was probably scared to fight 1 on 1, alot of em are.
I only met 1 guy farming in the forest who didtn summon phantoms, and he was beast.
He did a 1v2 with me and another hunter and just destroyed us, a while later i invaded again and tried some 1v1 but he killed me everytime.
Send him a msg after that i thought he was damn good and he is now my new xbl buddy

befowler wrote:Also, here a few other potential tips/tricks I noticed the last few days:

1) If you stand on the cliff near the spot where you can jump into the lower basin, you will see a bit of an alcove where you can pretty much hide yourself. Better still, if you face back towards the forest and then rotate your camera slowly to the left, at a certain point you can clip through the wall and see almost all the way to the stairs. It's a great way to hide there and see people coming from that direction way before they see you. I use it to annoy, but if they're running close to the wall thinking they're safe, it's also perfect for fire tempest fun.

2) I'm using my first pure INT build in there now, so I apologize if this is old news. But it looks to me like a CSS completely negates poise. In other words, it seems to stagger people regardless of their armor. I've staggered full havels and giants guys with a single CSS, and am currently trying to find one with a wolf ring on to see if even that doesn't save them. Now why this matters is because poise doesn't seem to regenerate instantly. Rather, it seems to operate like your bleed or poison bar, in that once it is gone it only comes back slowly. I have been using a LH logan's catalyst / RH lightning claymore setup. If I hit someone with a CSS, it staggers them and then I can immediately stunlock the crap out of them with the claymore. It's like their poise simply disappears. I killed three havel flippers this way last night and it was unbelievable, like they were wearing robes or something. Better still, they tend to panic and have no idea how to get out of it.

3) I suspect there is a way to hit people down in the main area with a dragonslayer bow from atop the Moonlight Butterfly's parapet. This only matters if you jump down into the basin in the first place and nobody follows you. But I ran all the way up there last night, and then took a left to the near end of the parapet where the edge of the rampart is broken. The range is extreme and you have to hit them on the down curve of the bolt as it loses velocity, but I am pretty sure I hit someone last night. You can't really see anyone from up that high, so I was aiming at the damage msgs I saw when they were fighting another forest cov member near the stairs. Similarly, if you jump down into the basin but then run back up the path and turn around, you can fire arrows back up into the treants etc. I was using a pharis bow and the hawk ring. Good, good times

Befowler - great tips. I am going to have to give all of them a try. I generally do not use spells other than CMW and sometime HSCM but I will have to check-out the stagger effects of CSS - especially if my opponent is not expecting it. I know the phantom who got hit from both sides with CSS did not even know what hit him - then the host disconnects that is really rich!!

Bamjam wrote:That double css hit sounds damn epic, no one can survive that haha.
Also 1mil souls damn thats alot, highest i ever get is like 50k.
Pretty cool that the host d/c'd he was probably scared to fight 1 on 1, alot of em are.
I only met 1 guy farming in the forest who didtn summon phantoms, and he was beast.
He did a 1v2 with me and another hunter and just destroyed us, a while later i invaded again and tried some 1v1 but he killed me everytime.
Send him a msg after that i thought he was damn good and he is now my new xbl buddy

I love befriending a host who is willing to duel 1v1 - I have been able to get some continuous 1v1 matches against these type of guys in the forest. Most of the time I get my butt handed to me because the host is so good - but I look at it as good training for me. Usually the host loves it and we each provide guarantees that we will never bang one another when I invade them. Good times all around.

Alright, so in FC last night I did some testing with rolling. Alright, remember how I spoke of the Bleed dodge that can be done with 25% or under, and the DWGR roll? Turns out it definitely can be done with the medium roll. It actually was relatively easy, the window is still very generous. Now as for fat rolls it can still be done, but the window is incredibly small. It is pretty much the fraction of a second after your feet first leave the ground that you are immune to damage. That's it I'm pretty sure. As for 100% or more burden, well I guess I'll have to test that too for some reason haha.

Sweet, I am trying to find ways to do w/o the DWGR. I've also ditched the ring of fap in the forest, because against some sl 300 havels guy it is not going to matter much. Instead, I wear a ring of fog when I first get summoned, to give me a few extra seconds if I am in a nest of farmers. Then I swap out to either DWGR + bellowing, or DWGR + hornet. I'd love to be able to just go with sub 25% rolls, but with the DSB's 10 weight it can be tricky.

Another point there, while on my long distance sniper perch searches, I noticed something kinda fun with the DSB. You know how when you use it it plants itself in the ground with that spike on the base. Well there are various places usually up on the walls or parapets where you can get that spike to stick in the wall itself. This means the arrows will clear the wall, where if you use a regular bow you can't shoot past the wall. Places where the wall is crumbled tend to work best, since you may be able to get closer, but there are other ones. My dream is to find a spot where I can just plug farmers 1000 yards downrange with that baby. Then I just need to figure out what set best looks like a ghillie suit and it is all over.

The ring I love to start my invasion with is the Wolf Ring, so if I get ganged right at the start I can take a Greatsword hit as I dash away, it works extremely well with that. With the eastern set you can easily survive one.

Also I've discovered something really odd. The gloves of the Shadow set at +5 actually have better stats outside of poise by an exception amount. I mean a whole 20 defense or so better. I'm not sure if this is actually an error since I'm pretty sure the gloves have about the same or more armor than the shadow chest piece at max upgrade. Given how little two poise is worth and my use of the wolf ring I tend to actually go Eastern Set with the shadow gloves. Check it yourself, is that weird or what?

befowler wrote:Sweet, I am trying to find ways to do w/o the DWGR. I've also ditched the ring of fap in the forest, because against some sl 300 havels guy it is not going to matter much. Instead, I wear a ring of fog when I first get summoned, to give me a few extra seconds if I am in a nest of farmers. Then I swap out to either DWGR + bellowing, or DWGR + hornet. I'd love to be able to just go with sub 25% rolls, but with the DSB's 10 weight it can be tricky.

Another point there, while on my long distance sniper perch searches, I noticed something kinda fun with the DSB. You know how when you use it it plants itself in the ground with that spike on the base. Well there are various places usually up on the walls or parapets where you can get that spike to stick in the wall itself. This means the arrows will clear the wall, where if you use a regular bow you can't shoot past the wall. Places where the wall is crumbled tend to work best, since you may be able to get closer, but there are other ones. My dream is to find a spot where I can just plug farmers 1000 yards downrange with that baby. Then I just need to figure out what set best looks like a ghillie suit and it is all over.

Befowler - we are going to have to assign you a secondary moniker such as: "OHK Uber-Sniper", "1000 Yard Death Ninja" or something to your name . Bro - you are lethal!!

Once you perfect this technique I am sure all of the hunters would love to get a how-to on it .

T minus 5 days til jump off!!

Oh yes, a little mind game I love to play with farmers. If you run around a corner what are you most likely going to do if you are looking to hurt the farmers? Tempest, Dance, TwoP? Here's a little thing I do on my faith character. Let them see your Pyro glove, then turn and go out of sight. Now if you are in need of health heal at this moment. Great Heal, Humanity, whatever means you want to use. They will back up trying to waste your cast. If you are in full health wait them out, or run to get yourself more breathing room. It is fun to toy with their weak minds I find, messing with a mob mentality is great haha.

Befowler.....Another archer here. I did the cliff dive to the basin to see if another set of eyes might help in the search for a perch. You might be on to something with the Moonlight Butterfly parapet. I'm not sure I scored a hit but using the Black bow of Pharis, Hawk Ring and Feather arrows it definitely looked like the arrows were in the mix. I noted that, in addition to seeing life bars of persons fighting near the Artorias gate it appears that either weapon buffs or some other "aura" can be visible. I was able to see a few sparkles similar to a lightning buff (which would not surprise me that someone was using). The color also seemed similar to a summoned Sunbro Aura. I believe the farmer in this case did have a Sunbro with him but can't confirm completely as I did the dive well before they had a good visual as I don't like to give up secrets. From archery practice throughout the game I don't think the damage would be treemendous if I had hit but I can't imagine the panic if they finally saw where the arrows originated from.

I might test another idea out in the basin as well but am not holding my breath on this one. I wanted to check the barriers leading to the garden from the basin and see if anything else could be established. The Fog door near the Hydra ladder intrigues me. I went here before testing Befowler's sniper spot so didn't want to test this idea any further but..... I noticed the bridge on the other side of the fog door has a fairly large gap between the rope and planks. I shot an arrow through a few points in this gap and the arrow was not stopped by an invisible wall. I wonder if a well timed roll might allow access back into the garden. The spacing to this gap should not be a barrier, only if rolling can maintain the elevation over the cliff to the bridge AND slip between the rope and the boards. If nothing else this area can provide classic comedy griefing for farmers. For example, message them to get them to start looking by either this bridge or the stone one above, get their attention (bow?) and then wave, "come on" gesture, etc. This would also be fun to taunt into archery battles.

skarekrow13 wrote:I wonder if a well timed roll might allow access back into the garden. The spacing to this gap should not be a barrier, only if rolling can maintain the elevation over the cliff to the bridge AND slip between the rope and the boards. If nothing else this area can provide classic comedy griefing for farmers. For example, message them to get them to start looking by either this bridge or the stone one above, get their attention (bow?) and then wave, "come on" gesture, etc. This would also be fun to taunt into archery battles.

Yes, I've been looking at that bridge as well, because you can shoot around the fog gate pretty easily there (although in my experience farmers rarely go down there). I couldn't get my char around it on the right side, but you're right there may be other ways through. At least you can get shots off there.

I am more of an enthusiastic amateur when it comes to archery so I welcome and encourage the expert archers among us to keep looking for sniper perches. I agree you will def get better range from the moonlight butterfly area with pharis + feather arrows, but I think the knockdown effect of the DSB stays even as its shorter arrow flightpath degrades. This is what made me think I managed to hit someone down there even though I was targetting dmg msgs, I launched a DSB arrow into the crowd (your arrows go right through your fellow forest cov members so there is no friendly fire risk) and I saw a weird dmg message for 46 dmg that moved rapidly off to the left. This was more than I was seeing for what I took to be shield blocks during their fight, and seemed to fit with a DSB hit at extreme range (I usually do over 200 dmg), plus it just looked like a knockdown the way the msg flew off to one side. At first I thought the odds of this were vanishingly small, but given how many fights take place in that area, plus the pretty wide hitbox on a DSB arrow, PLUS the fact we both think we've already hit people may make this tactic somewhat viable. For me it isn't the dmg so much as the psychological impact of farmers randomly getting smashed to the ground (which hopefully will also aid our fellow forest hunters).

One other note before I shut up -- another way to help is to run all the way back around to the bonfire outside the Artorias gate. You can't get through the fog gate or seemingly penetrate it in any fashion - I've not even gotten an AOE spell to go through it near as I can tell. But it drives the farmers insane to know you are right there past the stairs. I will break bushes, cast some spells etc to make a lot of noise and get them to come up to the top of the stairs. Last night I did this and another forest cov snuck up on them and backstabbed the host (judging by the sudden, huge dmg message and the thumping sound of someone getting kicked down). It was really funny.

Lol.....Looks like we looked at the same things. I also tried damaging through the fog but became a big disturbed hitting it. The sound makes it seem like your weapon is breaking and does seem to be impenetrable. The knockback from the DSB might actually be the best use. How far did you have to angle your shot up? With Black Bow and poison arrows it didn't look like the arrows made it quite far enough, but I admit I switched to feather arrows prior to using any extreme up angle (such as 45º) to take advantage of the range additions. 46 damage could be about right depending on armor actually. From that range they probably weren't wearing Havel's I bet but with it not being consistent with other damage amounts you saw during the fight and the sliding effect it sounds right. I swear I say the twinkles I described above rolling to avoid an arrow after the fight had stopped by the stairs so I do think there's some griefing opportunities there.

To share some general bow tips......
Know what you want out of your bow before selecting. For high damage either DSB or Composite but both of these sacrifice range. These are best used for opponents who are likely to keep their distance or for known pauses. For example, a farmer is hurt and runs just a little bit away to heal......Dragonslayer Arrow to the chest. Quick weapon switch to attack when he gets up. Touch to time that but......epic. These are also good bows for fighting in the trees as you can sometimes get a cautious opponent who doesn't close quick enough to stop you. Hint hint....composite bow will allow you to use two arrow types without inventory management.

I am more of a ranged bow user so Black Bow all the way. I don't typically reserve a Hawk Ring slot for PvP but Feather arrows mean surprises from a long way off. I hid in the Rolly Cat den from two farmers the other night and they decided to snipe the cats. They were taking little chips from the cats while this setup was taking between 100 and 150 per hit from the farmers. I was at NO risk from serious damage from their bows. Eventually the phantom "brave" the hiding spot in the trees to draw the cats to kill them while the host hid behind a tree. I switched to poison arrows and griefed the phantom for a bit. For comparison purposes in range, in NG+ I hit the Giant just before O&S for 134 from inside O&S's room (just when the arrow will clear the landing). The next Giant which is a considerable distance change (bows degrade rapidly) still takes about 117 I think from that distance. How does this help in the forest? I like the gang of trees near the Eastern Set and often set up there. I start shooting when they round the bend of the cliff and can score good damage. When using poison arrow you can make one farmer stop to remove the poison causing some separation in the group. Some farmers are so scairt of this they will try to hide in the trees, sometimes leading them into a group of hungry hungry ents. From Alvina's room I will walk out to the Ax hunter and poison farmers from there. They don't appreciate that and will often give chase. Bonus if they didn't take out the NPCs first. If not you have plenty of a headstart to go to a "real" battleground.

Aiming tip.....leave the reticle view up and practice moving a set amount of distance in BOTH directions. If someone wants to use their bow back you've learned how to space, for argument's sake....one "tree" of distance. Move behind the tree, move out fire, move back.

Hello all I joined the forest cov last week and I have been having a blast...thanks for the tips Brokewilly they are working very nicely. I have seen so much carnage...it was hilarious last night I am having a 2v2 with another hunter and the host with phantom when the host kept tryn to BS me...so I go to pivot BS him and I do but the animation goes to the other hunter and the host is standing next to me but takes the damage for a kill.

My question to you all is do you fellow hunters ever come across hunters that dont hunt?

Let me explain this has happen a bunch of times over a small period...basically another hunter invades and does nothing just stands there with no weapons or armor and watches me duel 2 or 3 people? I am guessing maybe he is a friend of the hosts and trying to fill an invasion spot maybe?

On a side not with regards to CSS I am a pretty high lvl battle mage with 60 INT and CSS def staggers ANYONE I hit even full havels....leaving them standing there for my CMW buffed Murakumo!!!

Those are great archery tips, I prefer the black bow too but I have to admit when I first used the DSB in PvP and got a knockdown I was hooked. Plus the range is long enough that in the forest your toon's resolution at distance is so poor that people don't even see what you're up to until the first bolt hits and knocks them on their backside. I really enjoy announcing my presence with a DSB arrow or poison arrow, it makes clear who is being hunted.

Re the idle players, it is hard to be sure, but the consensus is that they are scumming for souls by hoping they are summoned into a world where someone else then kills the host, netting them the reward for doing nothing (they also get souls from any host summoned phantoms that die, or darkwraiths). Many are literally idle - they just leave the cat ring on and idle for hours as they pop in and out of matches. Don't wear clothes presumably so they don't even have equipment damage issues from getting killed all the time. It's pathetic and embarrassing for the covenant, and also makes life harder for the rest of us.

And yeah I think the CSS + melee is a real winner. Deleting some havels or giants guy's poise with a CSS turns them into nothing but a strangely dressed marshmallow, ripe for a beating. It's been so long since these guys dealt with real stunlocking that it seems to hurt their brains to change tactics. I had a full havels guy I hit with a CSS, and as soon as he stopped staggering he tried to poise backstab me by running through my claymore swing. Instead it played out sort of like the woodchipper scene from Fargo.

Ya that makes sense for sure what a bunch of losers thats brutal...if you have any skill at all souls should mean absolutely nothing...I am trying to hold my new hunter back at lvl 210 so I can still get pvp at kiln and I am holding 25 mil souls!

LOL I love that last comment thats exactly how it played out for me he was staggered and couldn't figure out how it was possible...then he trying to run past my buffed mura attack for a BS...the mura might be slow but not when its stunlocking it was ugly!! I love the claymore also obviously I have enchanted the get the INT scaling...just love that thrust and swipe combo...when I use it I buff my claws first which can be very effective also then if they are still standing after the buff runs out the claymore comes out!!

As I am new to forest I have been working on diff fighting styles trying to be prepared for anything....I am pumped for the upcoming mass invasion event!!!!

befowler wrote:Those are great archery tips, I prefer the black bow too but I have to admit when I first used the DSB in PvP and got a knockdown I was hooked. Plus the range is long enough that in the forest your toon's resolution at distance is so poor that people don't even see what you're up to until the first bolt hits and knocks them on their backside. I really enjoy announcing my presence with a DSB arrow or poison arrow, it makes clear who is being hunted.

Re the idle players, it is hard to be sure, but the consensus is that they are scumming for souls by hoping they are summoned into a world where someone else then kills the host, netting them the reward for doing nothing (they also get souls from any host summoned phantoms that die, or darkwraiths). Many are literally idle - they just leave the cat ring on and idle for hours as they pop in and out of matches. Don't wear clothes presumably so they don't even have equipment damage issues from getting killed all the time. It's pathetic and embarrassing for the covenant, and also makes life harder for the rest of us.

And yeah I think the CSS + melee is a real winner. Deleting some havels or giants guy's poise with a CSS turns them into nothing but a strangely dressed marshmallow, ripe for a beating. It's been so long since these guys dealt with real stunlocking that it seems to hurt their brains to change tactics. I had a full havels guy I hit with a CSS, and as soon as he stopped staggering he tried to poise backstab me by running through my claymore swing. Instead it played out sort of like the woodchipper scene from Fargo.

"..woodchipper scene from Fargo" my goodness befowler you are literally killing me from laughter:lol: . Going to try out CSS + melee the next time invade - I need to check out the stagger effect with my own eyes (not to say I don't trust my fellow hunters nuggets of knowledge).

Yeah hunters ATK (or simply looking for easy souls) are becoming an increasing trend. I am asking any forest darkwraiths, GLs, etc that run across this issue to kill these guys as quick as you can to deny them any souls. We invade the forest to protect it - not to hang out butt naked (excuse my French). Kill'em all and let God sort'em out - I always say.

In fact I had a host this morning who told me I should just get out they way if all I wanted to do is leech souls - I'm like what?? - is it because I did not immediately rush you - some hosts immediately think you are a leech if you don't make a beeline for them. No, in my book this is called reconnaissance, sizing your opponent up, etc. Anyway, the host turns out to be cool chick and gave me two good 1v1s between the times she was getting constantly invaded by everyone under the sun - so I just waited my turn, got beat down both times (but the host did say I lasted longer than any of her other fights - the host was clearly a boss plus she was using a Mura which is my weapon of choice -so she was stunlocking everyone except me of course because I have very understanding of the Mura's capabilities) but I got some good practice in. Anyway her statement leads me to believe she had run into many ATKs or leeches as some would say while she was hosting.

DarkW17 wrote:Ya that makes sense for sure what a bunch of losers thats brutal...if you have any skill at all souls should mean absolutely nothing...I am trying to hold my new hunter back at lvl 210 so I can still get pvp at kiln and I am holding 25 mil souls!

LOL I love that last comment thats exactly how it played out for me he was staggered and couldn't figure out how it was possible...then he trying to run past my buffed mura attack for a BS...the mura might be slow but not when its stunlocking it was ugly!! I love the claymore also obviously I have enchanted the get the INT scaling...just love that thrust and swipe combo...when I use it I buff my claws first which can be very effective also then if they are still standing after the buff runs out the claymore comes out!!

As I am new to forest I have been working on diff fighting styles trying to be prepared for anything....I am pumped for the upcoming mass invasion event!!!!

DarkW17 - good to see you are leaving bodies all over the forest:twisted: . You are truely becoming a hunter killer!

Yeah the hunter leeches or ATK hunters are really getting under my skin - but what are you/we gonna do:!: . Hopefully other phantoms who can damage hunters will take care of this problem to some extent - I still have faith in my convenant so only time will tell.

found one of those once, its the perfect situation for shivas gesture. had a farmer group on my tail and i stopped in front of the afk phantom pointed at him then looked skyward...(then i ran off a cliff to my secret(?) hidey-hole)

I found one of the lowest hunters I have seen last night. I FINALLY found someone willing to do 1v1 (albeit with Estus chugging). We're having a good battle and another hunter invades. I can't see the new guy immediately but I'm hoping he has the good sense to back off and let the fight happen. I hear magic being cast and think "Oh expletive" he's gonna try and gang the host and next time one of us invades he's gonna make sure he brings a date to the dance. In comes a soul spear which thank god missed. I beeline out and the hunter is keeping a ridiculous amount of distance while flanking the host. Pretty sure he was waiting for me to jump in. After a solid minute or two he actually tries to fight which went ok but the host heals, the hunter panics and keeps a bigger distance. Eventually he runs over to where I am behind a tree and makes chopping motions at me with his weapon 2 handed. I wish I would have had "point forward" queued to tell him to finish his business with the host but instead had to rely on doing nothing. The host starts approaching and he jumps back in and gets killed. I wait for him to heal and then, like Elvis, make sure I'm TCB.

Best fight of the night.....I invaded a group of two, they run toward me in the tree grove near the Eastern set. Another Hunter pops in behind them. The phantom comes at me and the trees and, he's actually pretty good. The host is occupied with the other hunter and the phantom and I chip at each other. I start losing but notice the host is running scared and almost dead so I run at him with a two handed scythe making sure he doesn't heal. The phantom can't finish me in the trees but catches the other hunter eventually. I slash the host, the hunter gets backstabbed and Alvina smiled.

I invade the same group again with no help and work to the same spot. They killed the trees but were close enough to make running a bad idea. The host stops just outside the trees and lets the phantom and I do 1v1. A rapier user which can boggle my mind and I lose. The entire time....no host. Cool beans

I invade a third time and again no help. The phantom and I square off again and I imagine he's confident. Well, I figure.....he's not gonna stun lock me anytime soon and while quick I know the moveset. I chip him once or twice between combos. He's gotten a few licks in. One of the rarest tricks for me....parry....riposte.....dead phantom. The second the parry went off I hear HCSM. As the phantom hits the ground I'm rolling away from a blindside Murakumo and magic attack. We square off and to prove Karma can be a "b" a Hunter who was hiding backstabs the SoB and we double shot him as he gets up.

Also on the topic of stunlocks I read somewere on the forums to quickly toggle your right hand weapon to evade it and I have been trying this and it works for sure if anyone didn't know that!

There's ways to turn the idler to your advantage if you have patience and if the farmers can't find the idler (sometimes the idler will be wearing ring of fog, or head away from the spawn point before they idle again). I had a couple last night while I was scouting around in the lower basin re archery, and the result is that nobody else invades. You may get the occasional darkwraith invasion, but otherwise you have both forest cov slots filled (idler, and you), which frustrates the farmers to no end. As I was already down in the basin when it occurred to me that nobody had invaded for a while, I decided to watch the clock and see how long it took the farmers to get tired of it. First, at about the 9 minute mark with no action happening, the hosts's two phantoms black crystalled out. Then, he spent a while trying to summon more, and then at the 25 minute mark he suicided.

This can be boring for most people, and I only did it because I was stuck in the basin already and they wouldn't follow me down, but remember that the goal of the farmers is to kill as many phantoms as quickly as they can. You can deny them this by killing them outright of course, but trolling them by refusing to play into their little plan is a legit alternative. Not only did we keep this guy occupied for half an hour, but when he suicided he reset all the mobs, which had previously been cleared out. So hopefully other forest hunters were able to use those against him in his next life. If you go into fights with an eye towards making their farming as painful as possible even if you don't kill them directly, it can really be a lot of fun. The 800k souls I got from his suicide wasn't bad either, heh.