Why the Hornet Ring was a GOOD addition

TheMeInTeam wrote:I so rarely use it due to the expense of a ring slot.  That cost is very real.  Relying on it for criticals is like relying on BDCR for high damage spells: a gambit that you're going to land something and see benefit from the ring.

Look at it from the perspective of "added damage".  Hornet ring might add a couple hundred damage.  What might havel's add or reduce, if it allows fast roll instead of medium roll?  Cloranthy?  BDCR?  FAP (literally adds extra HP outright among other things and is probably the strongest individual PvP ring for a lot of builds)?

Most of the rings that people actually use a decent amount have properties that can compete with, and possibly surpass, the output from hornet ring.  Some of them might have less expected benefit added, but apply it more consistently (cloranthy always works every time you do any action other than simple movement, havel's literally always works).  Others require that you complete a set of requirements in order to see any benefit at all; in order for these to be balanced against guaranteed function rings, they must be stronger in the event that they *can* meet those requirements.

In more than a few situations, the hornet ring can be a bad choice, literally eating a ring slot w/o doing anything at all.  Backstabs and parries are *not* guaranteed...I don't see how this ring is even rationally defensible as "overpowered", though as usual we lack any credible evidence to say conclusively either way.

Dibsville wrote:TLDR; Fatal weapons were OP, Hornet Ring is a great addition instead of them.

Anyone who has played Demon's Souls should already know where I'm going with this.

If you've never played Demon's Souls, there was an upgrade path called the "Fatal" upgrade path. It took away your base damage, but added critical damage. It could be put on any weapon that wasn't special. In other words, you could make your weapons into practical Rapiers, except more base damage than a Rapier.

So now onto the Hornet Ring; since the Fatal path was removed, we now have the Hornet Ring. At first it was +50% damage on Criticals, but everyone cried that it was OP so it was nerfed to only +30%. Yet it's STILL being called OP.

Now let's imagine this. The Hornet Ring is taken out and Fatal weapons are added back in. Now everyone can basically get the Hornet Ring bonus on their weapon, but still have two ring slots to choose from. I don't want to see a Rapier doing 1600 damage even though the guy has DWGR and Wolf Ring.

If anything, the Hornet Ring was a blessing in place of the Fatal weapons. People should look back and see that the Hornet Ring taking up a ring slot was one of the best, (not saying it was the best, but it's pretty high up there), changes from Demon's Souls to Dark Souls.

I sincerely hope there's another Hornet Ring type ring in DkS2 to make up for any other shenanigans FROM might try to pull on critical damage.

Thank you Dibs for finally putting some sense in all these guys who call Hornet Ring OP!  

TheMeInTeam wrote:I so rarely use it due to the expense of a ring slot.  That cost is very real.  Relying on it for criticals is like relying on BDCR for high damage spells: a gambit that you're going to land something and see benefit from the ring.

Look at it from the perspective of "added damage".  Hornet ring might add a couple hundred damage.  What might havel's add or reduce, if it allows fast roll instead of medium roll?  Cloranthy?  BDCR?  FAP (literally adds extra HP outright among other things and is probably the strongest individual PvP ring for a lot of builds)?

Most of the rings that people actually use a decent amount have properties that can compete with, and possibly surpass, the output from hornet ring.  Some of them might have less expected benefit added, but apply it more consistently (cloranthy always works every time you do any action other than simple movement, havel's literally always works).  Others require that you complete a set of requirements in order to see any benefit at all; in order for these to be balanced against guaranteed function rings, they must be stronger in the event that they *can* meet those requirements.

In more than a few situations, the hornet ring can be a bad choice, literally eating a ring slot w/o doing anything at all.  Backstabs and parries are *not* guaranteed...I don't see how this ring is even rationally defensible as "overpowered", though as usual we lack any credible evidence to say conclusively either way.

skarekrow13 wrote:My position is and always will remain:

There is not perfect balanced in the game, but there is also nothing that is of game breaking imbalance as to be defined as "overpowered."  


Except the Calamity Ring.  I will still argue it is the most unbalanced, and therefore gamebreaking item in the game and should draw ire before any other piece of equipment in any conversation dedicated to how fair or unfair items are in game.  

Permission to add that to the OP because it's so awesome?

Rynn wrote:Backstabs were overpowered, but now they are overtaxed in comparison. I do not believe that 1620 damage backstabs with a manserpant greatsword: on full giants armor, is reasonable. But nor do I feel that the new value of about 920 under the same conditions is any better.

Simply reducing hornets from 50% to 30% was enough, but they at the same time Reduced Elemental Weapon damage, and chopped backstab damage on most weapons down by 40% average.

Too much change makes backstabs too weak.

Soris Ice Goldwing wrote:It is fun to use and makes it harder to fight in PvP. A challenge were that one mistake kills you. Always on guard with more focus as you fight the wielder. The great feeling that the tank who stunlock lock fell to a riposte by the light weight build, easier to live in PvE were a parry can save or kill you.

Animaaal wrote:%$#@it!

I owe billy a +1.