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Undiscovery

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it gets worse and worse and worse

redwingsoverbaron

redwingsoverbaron: Newbie; Posts : 24
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Post n°1

it gets worse and worse and worse

Post by redwingsoverbaron Sun Sep 01, 2013 3:46 pm

so, this has happened on 3-4 builds, I'll set up a build, and jump into pvp, do REALLY well for a few days, and it goes downhill.

now on my current build, my favorite, it's very solid, and can hold its own against just about anything, i think i figured it out, before i though it was just beginners luck, but knowing the game inside and out at this point, at first, ill run into a lot of diversity, really fun matches. then itll change into DMB Falchions, DMB Great Scythes, DMB Katanas... like... always, last four matches I had, involved coming under a relentless assault from some guy that would hide with at least one other person, with DMB weapons, and they would assault me the second I walked through the door. Dont get me wrong, i dont expect fair 1v1 honorable bs all the time, but damn, i dont expect to get gang banged all day.

Anyone else notice a decrease in... "fair" fights, the longer they play on one toon?

WhatDoesThePendantDo?

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Post n°2

Re: it gets worse and worse and worse

Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? Sun Sep 01, 2013 3:53 pm

Those fighters have always been there. If you want to play Dark Souls it's just something you're gonna have to accept. Some people are just more concerned with winning (the method doesn't matter) than having fair duels.

SadPanda: Caffeinated; Posts : 900
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Post n°3

Re: it gets worse and worse and worse

Post by SadPanda Sun Sep 01, 2013 4:50 pm

From experience, hosting will decrease the amount of bad fights you get. You're still going to get a lot of assholes, but not nearly as much as invading.

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Post n°4

Re: it gets worse and worse and worse

Post by Forum Pirate Sun Sep 01, 2013 4:59 pm

WhatDoesThePendantDo? wrote:Those fighters have always been there. If you want to play Dark Souls it's just something you're gonna have to accept. Some people are just more concerned with winning (the method doesn't matter) than having fair duels.

Is it (potentially) available to both players? Is it hacking?

If the answers are yes and no, in that order, then it is fair.

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Post n°5

Re: it gets worse and worse and worse

Post by Aigaios Sun Sep 01, 2013 5:22 pm

Just do what I do when making a build:

-Start at the burgs to test it against the ninja flippers, average try-hard builds, GC BSers and spammers. (The so called cheap players)
-Then go to the forest to test it in 2v1 situations both as a host and a forest hunter.
-And finally go with it to the MLB pit for some friendlier duals.

Should help you find good ways to use the build against different players and find the best spot to use your build in. I try to make every single one of my builds completely different so using this method helps me see the pros and cons.

WhatDoesThePendantDo?

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Post n°6

Re: it gets worse and worse and worse

Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? Sun Sep 01, 2013 6:01 pm

Forum Pirate wrote:

WhatDoesThePendantDo? wrote:Those fighters have always been there. If you want to play Dark Souls it's just something you're gonna have to accept. Some people are just more concerned with winning (the method doesn't matter) than having fair duels.

Is it (potentially) available to both players? Is it hacking?

If the answers are yes and no, in that order, then it is fair.

Not going to get into it, but an Enchanted Whip and a DMB buffed Falchion are both things available to players but they are not comparable. Fair? I guess so. But it's really separate but equal.

Qyntius: Casual; Posts : 48
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Post n°7

Re: it gets worse and worse and worse

Post by Qyntius Mon Sep 02, 2013 8:07 am

I'm trying a new no excuse aproach in where I'll just try to outplay whatever someone throws at me. Obviously it's more fun when you come across 'fairer' players, but the game is broader than that. happy

happy

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Post n°8

Re: it gets worse and worse and worse

Post by Undiscovery Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:49 am

I get what your saying RedWings, but I think it's just a mental thing, when I get bored with a character or too **** I get toasted for awhile until I straighten my act up. It's just not a game you can fly to close to the sun in or not fly at all even. I find I win the most when I don't care to win and use my builds in fun approaches instead of strict ones.

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Post n°9

Re: it gets worse and worse and worse

Post by Latitoast Mon Sep 02, 2013 12:16 pm

I know this feeling.

I got on my rapier build yesterday, the most memorable fights were

Host spamming magic and estus, kept trying to kite me, eventually died.
SoV invades, instantly applies DMB Falchion and runs at me.
SoV spawns, starts to get wrecked and starts popping blessings.
Spawn, red and a host are standing around, expect a normal fight club, it's gankers

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Post n°10

Re: it gets worse and worse and worse

Post by DOOM996 Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:34 pm

The only thing i really hate in PvP is when some "Flachzangen" only fish for backstabs, without any skills except for sneaking around me all the time, that´s by far the most annoying thing in this game. Besides of that i don´t care if someone heals in a fight or gankers in general, i give a flying ... about them!

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Post n°11

Re: it gets worse and worse and worse

Post by Leet Tue Sep 03, 2013 6:40 am

DOOM996 wrote:The only thing i really hate in PvP is when some "Flachzangen" only fish for backstabs, without any skills except for sneaking around me all the time, that´s by far the most annoying thing in this game. Besides of that i don´t care if someone heals in a fight or gankers in general, i give a flying ... about them!

Backstab fishing is one of the easiests tactics in the game to fight. Sometimes lag can work against you but all you gotta do it lock on and either strafe against them (to backstab them) or strafe away from them and they'll never catch you. But watch, because if you strafe away from them they can change directions.

If you're strafing against them, all you gotta do is get behind them slightly. Worst comes to worst you both backstab each other and you cancel out the damage.

You can also swing unlocked behind you with a big long weapon such as a Zwei. Once they get hit with something like that they won't go for it anymore and they won't know what to do.

redwingsoverbaron

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Post n°12

Re: it gets worse and worse and worse

Post by redwingsoverbaron Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:43 am

yeah i see, i know a lot of it is a mental thing, and i get that, I hadn't played in like two months, and jumped on with like a 10 kill streak, then, i went to like 60% wins or so after I got a little over confident. My build is versatile enough to keep up with most fights even if i have a -less-than-okay- day, i still can hold my own. And I never back down from a fight, not in the archives anyways, those are my grounds >D if i lose to the same guy a few times it gives me more incentive to really flush out my build.

The only thing in the entire game ill consider "unfair" is that dark bead/pursuers combo, just because I can mean instant death for just about anything. I think DMB Falchions/gankers and the like are unsporting, but not something unfair, you can still hold your own. then you get those guys that Gank, Twop, and swarm in with 3 giant dads. seriously. **** those guys.

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Post n°13

Re: it gets worse and worse and worse

Post by Undiscovery Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:42 am

Everyone says everything is the easiest thing to fight but let's get relative here and say it's not. Sometimes lag will make a backstab-fisher unbeatable, especially if they're much quicker than their frames. And while pursuers is dodgeable, Dark Bead is damn near insta-cast, faster than the time it takes to shoot an arrow, and any slip or just bad luck will get you shot down before you can react properly. There's just some things you can't beat given the situation, period.

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Post n°14

Re: it gets worse and worse and worse

Post by Leet Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:33 pm

Undiscovery wrote:Everyone says everything is the easiest thing to fight but let's get relative here and say it's not. Sometimes lag will make a backstab-fisher unbeatable, especially if they're much quicker than their frames. And while pursuers is dodgeable, Dark Bead is damn near insta-cast, faster than the time it takes to shoot an arrow, and any slip or just bad luck will get you shot down before you can react properly. There's just some things you can't beat given the situation, period.

Granted lag is always a factor, no one put into the equation that they're having horrible lag during these fights. Obviously, if there's a horrible amount of lag and you can barely see your opponent, it was quite possible you will get backstabbed and not see it coming. But like i said before, no one has been complaining of lag. I wouldn't even call a fight riddled with horrible lag a fight rather than a one-sided backstab fest.

So now that we have lag out of the equation, let's get back to backstab fishing. Go up against any experienced player and fish for backstabs. I'm willing to bet either you get backstabbed yourself, you both bs each other, or you simply can't get 'em.

If someone is fishing, and you strafe the opposite way they are. They cannot get you, period. And i'd consider that the easiest tactic in the game, being that all you have to do to stop it is hold the thumbstick in the opposite direction they are.

You're making it sound to be like dark magic is the most OP spell in the game, which in fact it is not. There's always a tactic to beat a tactic, you just have to have the knowledge and the know how, period.

And i'm sure the whole forum (at least the people who know what they're talking about) will agree with me.

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Post n°15

Re: it gets worse and worse and worse

Post by Undiscovery Tue Sep 03, 2013 5:29 pm

I wasn't bringing up any OP arguments, I was making an objective observation on the nuisance of Dark Bead. It is what it is, I'm just saying if you're having bad luck getting matched up with your builds poison then that is what it is, too. People can ******** and be cute all day talking about skill and timing and everything's beatable, Tactic vs. anti-tactic, op vs. non-op blah blah. But if your build cant beat a build it's just that, and by 'can't-beat' I'm using a generous 'frustration' to 'worth-it' ratio. And spells like Dark Bead are an annoying pain, OP or not. Builds like Giant dad's and BS-fishers are an annoying pain, Op or not. Especially if your build happens to be particularly vulnerable to them, you're likely to keep losing if you keep getting matched to them, no rhetoric about talent or lag really necessary. But I digress, some people pwn everything, I'm not one of them.

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Post n°16

Re: it gets worse and worse and worse

Post by Leet Tue Sep 03, 2013 7:27 pm

Undiscovery wrote:I wasn't bringing up any OP arguments, I was making an objective observation on the nuisance of Dark Bead. It is what it is, I'm just saying if you're having bad luck getting matched up with your builds poison then that is what it is, too. People can ******** and be cute all day talking about skill and timing and everything's beatable, Tactic vs. anti-tactic, op vs. non-op blah blah. But if your build cant beat a build it's just that, and by 'can't-beat' I'm using a generous 'frustration' to 'worth-it' ratio. And spells like Dark Bead are an annoying pain, OP or not. Builds like Giant dad's and BS-fishers are an annoying pain, Op or not. Especially if your build happens to be particularly vulnerable to them, you're likely to keep losing if you keep getting matched to them, no rhetoric about talent or lag really necessary. But I digress, some people pwn everything, I'm not one of them.

No one appreciates you coming on this thread and giving off a negative vibe/attitude/tone. I suggest you simmer down a bit.

It's a Soul series fact that every single tactic/spell/weapon/build has a way around to beat it. Basically, all you stated were opinions, and i respect that. But there's no reason to give off these opinions in a negative manner.

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Post n°17

Re: it gets worse and worse and worse

Post by reim0027 Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:10 pm

I think backstab fishing belongs in the "spamming" category. Nothing wrong with it, in general. It adds strategy, trying to set up a BS, or trying to fake one to make your opponent behave differently. However, anytime you spam the same attack, it gets boring to fight.

WhatDoesThePendantDo?

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Post n°18

Re: it gets worse and worse and worse

Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:12 pm

Really getting depressed playing Dark Souls right now, running into but crap tonight. Look Skyward

Look Skyward

The_Red_Drifter

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Post n°19

Re: it gets worse and worse and worse

Post by The_Red_Drifter Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:02 pm

I usually just get away from the game for a few days, and come back to it later with a different build and whatnot. I gotta little upset halfway through doing Wilk's tournament, mainly from stuff outside the tourney while I was waiting. It's more to do with the mindset of particular players, although a few can be much nicer depending on the circumstance.
I actually have one build I've been actively using that I got much better fights lately with than when I first started out with it.
Also don't really understand the hate about Dark Bead alone, I can easily midroll through someone spamming half of them, follow up with Silver Pendant and then midroll the rest of them (without grass even). And DB is still nowhere near as sneaky as a well timed WoG. Really, the only time I curse spells is when spooky lag or TWoP (with a build that can't counter it) is in play.

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Post n°20

Re: it gets worse and worse and worse

Post by SadPanda Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:51 am

TooLeet wrote:

Undiscovery wrote:I wasn't bringing up any OP arguments, I was making an objective observation on the nuisance of Dark Bead. It is what it is, I'm just saying if you're having bad luck getting matched up with your builds poison then that is what it is, too. People can ******** and be cute all day talking about skill and timing and everything's beatable, Tactic vs. anti-tactic, op vs. non-op blah blah. But if your build cant beat a build it's just that, and by 'can't-beat' I'm using a generous 'frustration' to 'worth-it' ratio. And spells like Dark Bead are an annoying pain, OP or not. Builds like Giant dad's and BS-fishers are an annoying pain, Op or not. Especially if your build happens to be particularly vulnerable to them, you're likely to keep losing if you keep getting matched to them, no rhetoric about talent or lag really necessary. But I digress, some people pwn everything, I'm not one of them.

No one appreciates you coming on this thread and giving off a negative vibe/attitude/tone. I suggest you simmer down a bit.

It's a Soul series fact that every single tactic/spell/weapon/build has a way around to beat it. Basically, all you stated were opinions, and i respect that. But there's no reason to give off these opinions in a negative manner.

itbegins.jpg

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Post n°21

Re: it gets worse and worse and worse

Post by reim0027 Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:03 am

There is a difference between "can't be beat" and "can't be beat without frustration." Everyone draws the line in different places for that last one. Some people will take 100 deaths just to beat an "impossible to beat" hacking build or to take down a trolling Havel's R1 spamming Golden Tracer.

Maybe you wanted to say "I don't want to beat"?

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Post n°22

Re: it gets worse and worse and worse

Post by Forum Pirate Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:20 am

For the record, its not a flaw in the game if you don't like dealing with something, wether its effective or not. Its a lack of skill (in that area) or knowledge on the players part more often than not. One should not change/judge anything based on that subjective and variable aspect alone, it is the responsibility of the player to get past it, if they wish.

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Post n°23

Re: it gets worse and worse and worse

Post by Undiscovery Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:31 am

TooLeet wrote:

Undiscovery wrote:I wasn't bringing up any OP arguments, I was making an objective observation on the nuisance of Dark Bead. It is what it is, I'm just saying if you're having bad luck getting matched up with your builds poison then that is what it is, too. People can ******** and be cute all day talking about skill and timing and everything's beatable, Tactic vs. anti-tactic, op vs. non-op blah blah. But if your build cant beat a build it's just that, and by 'can't-beat' I'm using a generous 'frustration' to 'worth-it' ratio. And spells like Dark Bead are an annoying pain, OP or not. Builds like Giant dad's and BS-fishers are an annoying pain, Op or not. Especially if your build happens to be particularly vulnerable to them, you're likely to keep losing if you keep getting matched to them, no rhetoric about talent or lag really necessary. But I digress, some people pwn everything, I'm not one of them.

No one appreciates you coming on this thread and giving off a negative vibe/attitude/tone. I suggest you simmer down a bit.

It's a Soul series fact that every single tactic/spell/weapon/build has a way around to beat it. Basically, all you stated were opinions, and i respect that. But there's no reason to give off these opinions in a negative manner.

Oh please, if you think I'm being negative then you're being ridiculous and/or overly sensitive. Or blame it on the lack of inflection in text. You claimed I thought something was OP and I retorted that you misunderstood my original post. I apologize that my honest disclosures are too negative for you. Buuuut, What-ev's man. I'm the arsehole, cool.

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Post n°24

Re: it gets worse and worse and worse

Post by Aigaios Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:28 am

Its your opinion and I am sure that everyone respects it but the way you present it it seems like you expect everyone to agree to it. I also think that you are being a bit too arrogant and sarcastic, for no reason.

If you are faced against a player that uses OP items such as DWGR or Chaos Blade and lose, in my opinion you can't be angry at the other player but only yourself for not being good enough to deal with such build. The same goes for magic spammers and BS fishers, if you can't beat them I dont really see how it is the fault of the build that you are using or the other player. Yes, faced against a caster you could use GMB, FS or VoS but if you were unable to beat such builds without those counter spells then how do you expect to experiment with other build types that cant use those counter spells and be effective.

I dont think im amazing at that game, I dont think you have to be amazing at the game to know various ways of countering other weapons, spells or builds. As long as it is not hacking or glitching then it is something that can and will be used and if you think its annoying then just learn how to counter it.

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Post n°25

Re: it gets worse and worse and worse

Post by Undiscovery Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:01 pm

Aigaios wrote:Its your opinion and I am sure that everyone respects it but the way you present it it seems like you expect everyone to agree to it. I also think that you are being a bit too arrogant and sarcastic, for no reason.

Well I don't feel responsible for others misguided interpretations, whatever they may be. I stated my thoughts as such because they were less-so opinions and more-so statistical observations on what people have the most trouble against. 9 times out of 10 you'll find a player who dislikes going against Dark Bead and Bs-fisher whether he thinks it's OP or not, or whether he knows a way around is irrelevant, the spell/spam is difficult to overcome in the right hands. Especially in terms of build weakness, if you happen to keep getting matched against your weakness, there's not much you can do to compensate is all my original statements were. And since I'm basing them on common sense and statistical awareness, I don't see how they can be disputed as opinions. In either case, it doesn't matter and I'm not really interested in debate on a misunderstanding. If you think I'm a jerk, I apologize but all well, no lost sleep.

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