Cheap tactics in pvp and Kiln

Gol wrote:Yeah that's like the great combustion you didn't expected.
And I agree it's cheap, seriously, the guy played melee only during the enter fight and when he know he's gonna lose he uses the miracle/pyromancy that requires the less skill.

If I knew it I wouldn't have refrained myself using miracles and pyromancy during the fight.

Lol... how is it less skillful to switch tactics on the fly for a kill? This is the absolute essence of being good at PvP IMO.

I also don't understand the thought that magic/pyro/miracles are somehow less skillful or 'cheap' compared to melee. They are just different tactics and allow the game to be more than just swords and dodging. My god, just think of how boring this game would get w/ just melee...

Gol wrote:Yeah that's like the great combustion you didn't expected.
And I agree it's cheap, seriously, the guy played melee only during the enter fight and when he know he's gonna lose he uses the miracle/pyromancy that requires the less skill.

If I knew it I wouldn't have refrained myself using miracles and pyromancy during the fight.

This here is pretty much one of the Pet Peeves in PvP.

I agree Ace, you shouldn't expect people to not use magic, it's a part of tge game and possible tactics. If you refrain from it, it's both unfortunate for your playstyle as variation with attack type is lower and makes PvP more samey.

I don't understand people's hang ups with magic to be honest, if he keeps his magic until the final blow to surprise you, i just applaud good tactics. Being unpredictable is a valuable trait in PvP.

To be honest though, the only real problem I have with people professing magic is cheap are those who then go on to say that BS is then kosh. It's a bit unfortunate they think it's fine just because it's related to melee.

I have no issue with magic when I know it is a part of the duel, but when a person acts as if "This is melee only," then at the last second uses magic for a quick kill that I consider one of the lowest of the low moves. If I had known it was a no bars no rules match I could have just pivot BS killed them at any moment, but I believed they wanted a sporting match only to be deceived. It is a tactic also commonly seen amongst farmers, so when people do it they instantly feel like a farmer to me which can stress me out a lot considering I'm in a duelling mind set and am trying to show civility. More often than not if I fight a person like this in the kiln and they do it once, I simply G Halberd Hornet's Ring BS them the next time to show my displeasure with their actions.

Tolvo wrote:I have no issue with magic when I know it is a part of the duel, but when a person acts as if "This is melee only," then at the last second uses magic for a quick kill that I consider one of the lowest of the low moves. If I had known it was a no bars no rules match I could have just pivot BS killed them at any moment, but I believed they wanted a sporting match only to be deceived. It is a tactic also commonly seen amongst farmers, so when people do it they instantly feel like a farmer to me which can stress me out a lot considering I'm in a duelling mind set and am trying to show civility. More often than not if I fight a person like this in the kiln and they do it once, I simply G Halberd Hornet's Ring BS them the next time to show my displeasure with their actions.

....Tolvo you're making the assumption bud (or least it seems like it) that having magic means that it's a no rules match. You're saying magic isn't 'sporting' when that simply isn't the case.

It's like me rocking up to a car race in a hatchback instead of a saloon, and the other guy's response is to say there are therefore no limits on cars and drive up in a A1 car...

wait.. does that mean you got annoyed at me when i used magic on you yesterday? Sorry Tol :|

Why would you ever expect a duel in which terms weren't agreed to beforehand to be melee only, especially if they change to a catalyst/pyro glove/talisman? You can't expect other people to play by rules you've made up and didn't tell them.

And about the 'magic isn't sporting' comment, I'll just say I disagree completely with this. The only builds I've made have been magic dominant because I like that part of the fantasy, they aren't 'cheap', just not melee dominant.

Variety is the spice of life, after all.

I love variety, I don't love cheap tactics in duels. If people do not wish to have a proper duel let me know, then I'll just kill them. If they want a duel, then I'll abide by ideas of common decency and they'll probably kill me since I'm not a good duellist. If magic is allowed then use it during the fight, don't use it at the end for a cheap kill. A Glass Cannon CSS killing me in one hit in the middle of a duel? Okay, that's your build. A person fighting me the hole time with a Demon Spear poking me to death then WotG at the end suddenly just as I was about to punish them, that person is a **** and not the type of person I want to associate with.

I got nothing against any magic, just WoG and Great combustion when spammed or used "the cheap way".
Those spelles are powerful it's a fact, the guy plays melee only and when he sees he's about to lose or just may lose then he uses the spell.

Like I said, I got nothing against magic, cause I like it, most of my toon use spells.
It's just that some spells are powerful (and not OP) and you could be about to win a fight and then the guy would just spam GC or WoG (and don't worry, they got enough slots generally) and thanks to our buddy lag, that guy would "win".

I think the fact it was an instant, AoE spell is what would make it more irritating, its clever and an eccellent finish, but that makes its fairness debatable.

I don't see how it makes its 'fairness' debatable, it's not like they exploited a glitch or lag, they exploited your aggression, to which WoG is really the only spell in the game that exploits melee aggression.

I think that's why people hate it so much. Most people rely on melee and being aggressive and an effective counter to it is WoG. It's not cheap, it's effective against a certain play style. Just because many people use the play style it is effective against doesn't make it cheap and just because you thought you were playing w/ some unwritten rules doesn't make it cheap.

I honestly have never had an issue w/ any of the spells in this game, spam away, it's one dimensional and everyone who relies on a single tactic can be exploited, just as WoG exploits the single tactic of aggressive melee only play.

i think topics like these just make people rage. fact is this game isnt fine tuned enough to have competitive fair pvp. have fun with it, cause it is fun, but dont get all bent out of shape cause you lose.

I will admit, while I still stand by my ideas of what is cheap and what isn't my ways of explaining my views have been pretty poor. I think I'll just stay out of this thread, as you said it does kind of invite people to be bothered.

way i look at it is dark souls is 25% luck and 75% skill. that works for me and allows the game to have its competitive feel but at the end of the day the most skilled player could be killed by an average player that lucks out while spamming wrath,great combustion, or getting hit by ghost dmg. has anyone seen people do that trick where they make fire surge invisible? i think it can be done with a few spells, similar to running firestorm in demons souls(if anyone wants to argue that demons was more balanced bring that up)

It's a glitch which I will not detail, on the forums or elsewhere.