Would you consider this cheap?

Ok, so I've been using this tactic in the Forest, and I want to know what you think of it. So, with the Hornets Ring on, I will parry riposte my opponent, then quickly run behind him for a quick backstab. That is the tactic, and, if done correctly, you will not survive.

So, two questions really. 1. If this happened to you, would you be cool with it, because I parried you, which is very hard, or would you be angry at me, because I exploited the parry and backstabed you when you couldn't defend against it? And 2. Hypothetically, if I was in a duel and I did this (not FC, just a random duel), would you consider this honerable?

I do this on generally anyone except people in FC's If i parry them they deserve to die - its fine in my books

so basically you chain backstab after a parry. cool.

if you are going to chain back stab why even use hornet ring they will die any ways because there is no counter.

and i think that is cheap if its a 1v1, how is it honorable if you are doing something they can not prevent? you are backstabbing before they have control of character, that is the same as spawn gank BSing., is that honorable? just because it comes after a parry doesn't change anything. you got your reward for the parry with your Hornet ring riposte.

Most FCs won't allow you to back stab someone getting up from the ground.

Further, many don't even allow the hornet ring.

My stance on it is that there is some problems with Backstab hitboxes which are annoying although you can counter them. For rings I think there are rings that people find acceptable that are just as unfair as the hornet ring.

@Glutebrah First of all, sorry if I offended you. Second, It isn't really a chain bs, but I understand why you think that it is unfair/just as bad as a chain bs. I have never actually used this in a real fight, the only time I have ever even done this was against farmers. But again, sorry. I didn't and don't want you to think that I was a chain bs'er, which is why I am asking you guys on your opinion on this.

Also, in real duels, I have never Hornets Ring backstabs. I only use it for parrying.

Sorry! (for the third time, lol)

Imarreteet23 wrote:@Glutebrah First of all, sorry if I offended you. Second, It isn't really a chain bs, but I understand why you think that it is unfair/just as bad as a chain bs. I have never actually used this in a real fight, the only time I have ever even done this was against farmers. But again, sorry. I didn't and don't want you to think that I was a chain bs'er, which is why I am asking you guys on your opinion on this.

Also, in real duels, I have never Hornets Ring backstabs. I only use it for parrying.

Sorry! (for the third time, lol)

it doesn't offend me, its just a game lol. but when you said you use it in random duels, i always assume duel means 1v1. i just think anytime you try to do damage to some one before they have control of their character is cheap (with the exception of obvious things like long cast animations, swing recovery, etc.)

The premise of chaining criticals to me is wrong. It's exploitation which you can do little about. If you get a riposte the fight is basically over anyway.. I don't think there's any need for you to go and chain it with a BS, just attack the once their up.

Nothing wrong with equipment or BS/parry, it's just if you chain a critical to a BS then I consider it a bit cheap.

In my opinion anything is fine 1 on 1 outside of a duel with established rules. What you're describing takes a good amount of skill and risk on your part. I once invaded someone who looked like she wanted a duel and got murdered during a bow. I didn't get mad because it's meant to be war and deception plays a big role. And it's always a learning experience. I invaded again and she must have not bothered keeping track because she tried to bow first to do out again. I rewarded her bow with a poison knife to the head and toyed with her with Mt scythe before killing her. My point? all is fair in war and the only sin is not adapting.

skarekrow13 wrote:In my opinion anything is fine 1 on 1 outside of a duel with established rules. What you're describing takes a good amount of skill and risk on your part. I once invaded someone who looked like she wanted a duel and got murdered during a bow. I didn't get mad because it's meant to be war and deception plays a big role. And it's always a learning experience. I invaded again and she must have not bothered keeping track because she tried to bow first to do out again. I rewarded her bow with a poison knife to the head and toyed with her with Mt scythe before killing her. My point? all is fair in war and the only sin is not adapting.

explain the risk of chaining a BS as they get up? am i missing something?

1. Anything's fair against farmers, nothing is cheap.

2. For a duel, that is definitely cheap. That's a chain-bs, which is not cool! And, although I wouldn't go as far as saying the ring should be banned from duels, I consider the hornet's ring borderline cheap. Parrying isn't that hard, I don't think your opponent deserves to take 1200+ damage for it (unless he's using the BKGA... then squeeze every bit of damage you can out of that riposte, he deserves it!).

This tactic is really useful in ganks or against flaskers. Outside of that, it's pretty dirty.

As for the hornet ring, I used to think it was cheap, but in reality there are plenty of rings that are just as viable in PvP. Choosing the HR just means you've got one less slot for other rings. And it's not like the thing is useful 100% of the time like the FaP ring or DWGR. If you can't get a BS, or you aren't allowed to, and you whiff your parry attempts, it's a wasted slot. I'm not complaining about it then, and I doubt you would be either.

As for parries, I think a few people have said the extra damage from a parry isnt an issue since it isn't something you can do on command like a BS. I agree with this completely.

DamageCK wrote:This tactic is really useful in ganks or against flaskers. Outside of that, it's pretty dirty.

Lloyds tailisman as they are getting up after a parry works also. Or BSing during a flask with hornet ring will do more damage then it heals. Still no excuse to chain.

My main toon has 1400 life. You would parry and kill me, it would be hilarious to see you trying to get behind me to backstab while I'm dying lol

Glutebrah wrote:

DamageCK wrote:This tactic is really useful in ganks or against flaskers. Outside of that, it's pretty dirty.

Lloyds tailisman as they are getting up after a parry works also. Or BSing during a flask with hornet ring will do more damage then it heals. Still no excuse to chain.

Lloyd's sometimes works, provided they just stand there after wake-up. Bottom line, when a host is flasking, my goal is to do as much damage as I can before they can flask again, or at all.

DamageCK wrote:

Glutebrah wrote:

DamageCK wrote:This tactic is really useful in ganks or against flaskers. Outside of that, it's pretty dirty.

Lloyds tailisman as they are getting up after a parry works also. Or BSing during a flask with hornet ring will do more damage then it heals. Still no excuse to chain.

Lloyd's sometimes works, provided they just stand there after wake-up. Bottom line, when a host is flasking, my goal is to do as much damage as I can before they can flask again, or at all.

I have never not had a tailsmen work when i through it as they are getting up. It hits thr same frame a chain bs would hit before they can move.

That makes one of us. Here's my reasoning: Not healing is probably the most common consensus among duellers. If that's out the window, why would everything else still apply? Whether or not you choose to capitalize on this is a matter of personal preference, but I'm not going to be made to feel like the bad guy for doing what I have to in order to beat someone who heals. This doesn't apply to unwanted invasions, obviously.

Ok, after some internal conflict, I have decided to not only never use this tactic (not even against farmers) but I will also not be using the Hornets Ring. It's just too dirty for me.

Parrying was the risk I was referring to.

i would consider that cheap, same thing as casting fire tempest while i am down or running away to heal. i have nothing against lloyds talismans since i don’t heal anyway.

there are quite a few things i consider cheap, but i honestly dont expect people to not do those things. I have been going up against nothing but people with multiple casts of wrath and its starting to just become a game of dodging wrath rather then fun fights.

If something seems too easy then its probably a little cheap. I have a faith build but i almost never use it cause besides wrath and buffs its not very good and those things are honestly just too easy to win with. I have never had more then 1 slot of wrath and i would use it when i was either low on health or if the other person was fishing for backstabs(if i was in a bad mood i might give you a wog wake up after a critical hit) it just stopped being fun because it didnt take skill to win and i was not improving as a player at all.

skarekrow13 wrote:Parrying was the risk I was referring to.

No one said parrying was cheap. The reward for landing a parry is riposte, not chain BS till they are dead.

hellooo wrote:i would consider that cheap, same thing as casting fire tempest while i am down or running away to heal. i have nothing against lloyds talismans since i don’t heal anyway.

Casting fire tempest when you run away to heal??? Dont run away to heal, nothing cheap about that. Not to mention the cast time is so long you have more then enough time to out run the radius. So not even sure how fire tempest would be a smart idea to prevent some one from healing. But casting it as they are getting up is cheap as hell.

He's not describing chain backstabbing though. The riposte is the reward for the parry then the backstab is the reward for repositioning. That's pretty much the same idea as when I make someone miss and strike wen they're open and switch to two hands to chase. Defensive move, attack based off of defensive move , reposition, another attack. It'd be different if there was no defense to what he was doing but I can't tell you the number of times people have missed their backstab our chain backstab because of simple reactions to it. It's like calling someone cheap because they swung their weapon twice in a row

Glutebrah wrote:

skarekrow13 wrote:Parrying was the risk I was referring to.

No one said parrying was cheap. The reward for landing a parry is riposte, not chain BS till they are dead.

hellooo wrote:i would consider that cheap, same thing as casting fire tempest while i am down or running away to heal. i have nothing against lloyds talismans since i don’t heal anyway.

Casting fire tempest when you run away to heal??? Dont run away to heal, nothing cheap about that. Not to mention the cast time is so long you have more then enough time to out run the radius. So not even sure how fire tempest would be a smart idea to prevent some one from healing. But casting it as they are getting up is cheap as hell.

I believe he meant that when someone backstab him, that person cast fire tempest OR run away to heal, not who was backstabbed.

skarekrow13 wrote:He's not describing chain backstabbing though. The riposte is the reward for the parry then the backstab is the reward for repositioning

Not sure if trolling, or stupid....

So is Wrath of god the reward for the backstab??

All attacks have set parameters to use and defend. Some may be easier to landthan others but there's no such thing as cheap in a fight. The basis of all martial arts is efficacy first. The reward for a parry, block, dodge or anything is what you make of it. In real life my instructor told me to follow any successful shoulder throw with an arm bar. And then shatter their elbow. All while never allowing them a chance to blink. Sound familiar? Successful combat is oppression plain and simple. Why should it be different digitally?