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    Magical theory 201

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    Post by cloudyeki Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:43 pm

    Welcome students, to Magic Theory. In this class we will discuss the use of, the idea behind, and the reason for various spells, miracles, and pyromancies. And while I am no Master Logan, Solomon, or Havel, I do have my own speculation on the workings of each magic.

    Teacher's lectures

    Pyromancy 1a:
    Spoiler:

    Seath 1

    Spoiler:

    Spell checklist:

    Great/Soul arrow
    Great/Heavy Soul arrow
    Crystal/Homing soulmass
    Hush
    Cast Light
    Crystal/Soul spear
    Crystal/Great/Magic Weapon
    Remedy
    Resist Curse
    Repair
    Hidden body/wweapon
    Chameleon
    Strong/Magic shield
    Aurul Decoy
    White dragon breath
    Fall control

    Fireball
    Fire Orb
    Great Fireball
    Flash Sweat
    Great/Combustion
    Chaos/Firewhip
    Fire Surge
    Acid Surge
    Chaos/Firestorm
    Great Chaos Fireball
    Fire Tempest
    Poewr within
    Iron flesh
    Poison Mist
    Toxic Mist
    Undead Rapport

    Force
    Spoiler:

    Emit Force
    Wrath of the Gods
    Heal
    Great Heal
    Great heal excerpt
    Soothing Sunlight
    Bountiful Sunlight
    Replenishment
    Great/Lightning Spear
    Sunlight Spear
    Homeward
    Great/Magic barrier
    Seek Guidance
    Karmic Justice
    Darkmoon Blade
    Tranquil walk of peace
    Vow of Silence
    Gravelord Great/Sword dance
    Sunlight blade

    End of Class 1 summary:
    Spoiler:

    End of Class 2 Summary:
    Spoiler:

    End of Class 3 summary:
    Spoiler:

    End of class 3 summary
    Spoiler:


    Last edited by cloudyeki on Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:29 pm; edited 8 times in total
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    Post by Tolvo Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:32 pm

    Also if you notice, Pyromancy actually existed before the Flame of Chaos, in the form of sorcery. They actually used Catalysts to cast their fire based spells, would this mean that there is a way for sorcery to surpass the need for Catalysts? You can see this in creatures that naturally use magic, so might this be possible? Actually in the Channellers I believe this is seen, as their casting doesn't involve their trident, rather they use their hands and arms in a prayer like manner. So much to talk about when it comes to magic really. bounce
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    Post by cloudyeki Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:40 pm

    Aye, but that might be more Seaths doing. If your close enough to a channeler as he casts, you can hear a chant or prayer. There soul arrows could be a combination of faith and sorcery if that's the case.

    Magic is an unnatural occurrence. It requires a great power or a catalyst to use. Even pyromancy, though a seemingly natural sort, requires a magical flame that was born of the daughter of chaos. The only natural one I can think of is Oolacile's light manipulating magic.
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    Post by Tolvo Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:47 pm

    I've also always related each to an aspect. Socery, the Soul. Flame, humanity. And then Miracle, I'm not entirely sure. Would it merely be drawn from other beings? Or are miracles of time, they use stories of old and possibly new to cast, I've always been curious about Miracles in that regard.
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    Post by skarekrow13 Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:54 pm

    Intermediate class? I missed a semester, crap. Good thread idea. Will have to do research. Magic is not my major

    My interpretation is they all derive from will. Sorcery is will of the mind, miracles are will of devotion and pyromancy is will of spirit or passion
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    Post by cloudyeki Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:04 pm

    Hm, Miracles are nit my forte. However, I can say a good theory behind Miracles is the act invoking a higher power. Miracles are some of the more numerous type, but also with more restrictions than either soul magic or pyromancy. To use certain miracles, you have to be in a certain covenant, a certain rank, and have the required faith. My theory is the talisman is an item used to commune with and seek help from the gods.
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    Post by Tolvo Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:11 pm

    I've always figured it actually took advantage of the time distortion. The idea of them chanting and using stories, as if they draw upon that instance in time where something was used or done, like they are drawing on power from a place and time rather than just a god or powerful being.
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    Post by DoughGuy Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:12 pm

    I'm not quite sure what you are asking for here but these may help. First is a link to another thread about magic (though judgnign by the fact this is 201 you probably saw it). The second is my personal theories on the magics that I posted in that thread.

    https://soulswiki.forumotion.com/t2538-magic-miracles-and-pyromancies

    Spoiler:
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    Post by DoughGuy Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:14 pm

    I don't think miracles draw upon the gods but the gods deeds. When you read the story you arent asking the god for help, you're recreating a physical manifestation of their deed and bringing into the world.
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    Post by Tolvo Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:16 pm

    That's exactly what I said.

    EDIT: But you worded it better haha.
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    Post by DoughGuy Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:18 pm

    Haha, now I reread it I see you did say that. Oops.
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    Post by Imarreteet23 Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:19 pm

    I like your theories on sorcery and pyromancy Dough, but i always though that miracles was people beseeching the gods to preform certain "miracles," for lack of a better term. And the tailisman was a way to commune with said gods.
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    Post by Tolvo Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:22 pm

    But, how would you use spells of gods who are dead? As well, Havel has created a miracle, so what does that mean?
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    Post by cloudyeki Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:27 pm

    Havel was the uncle of gwyn, he could have talked with him and devised it.

    Also,I forgot one last form of magic that most don't even think of. Magic of the everlasting dragon, who lives in ashlake
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    Post by Imarreteet23 Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:29 pm

    Tolvo wrote:But, how would you use spells of gods who are dead? As well, Havel has created a miracle, so what does that mean?
    Well, i didnt mean gods like gwyndolin or gwynevere. I dont think that people like that are literally gods, but more of people with extreme power. Anyways, you are right about Havel, there is no way to explain that using my theory unless it means that he created a prayer to a god. If not, then i'm cluless.
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    Post by DoughGuy Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:32 pm

    cloudyeki wrote:Havel was the uncle of gwyn, he could have talked with him and devised it.

    Also,I forgot one last form of magic that most don't even think of. Magic of the everlasting dragon, who lives in ashlake

    Allfather Lloyd is Gwyns uncle, Havel is just his friend.
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    Post by skarekrow13 Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:41 pm

    Going from a religious sense, miracles aren't always intervention from or directly from a god. Miracles are representation often of love or devotion to a god or cause. Miracles are similar to sorcery in that they are mortal powered but draw from a different well. For example, Jesus (a mortal being) performed miracles. All of his were the result of his love for fellow mortals. The power is divine but actually was his. Miracles can be gifts from a god but still powered by mortals too. In game some are granted to the devout of a covenant. Your power at the whim of whom you worship. Others are from stories for game mechanics but this is also true in other places. Monks who meditate long enough, a learned skill, can acquire miracles. Often accompanied by repetitions of a mantra, much like a story. The longer the story or mantra the greater your symbolic dedication. The Exorcist, one of the best all time movies, concludes with an attempted miracle by two priests. The first shows that the power comes from mortals as the burden is too much for his weakened body. The second priest lacks dedication to the passages required of the miracle and also becomes a sad panda.

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    Post by Tolvo Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:47 pm

    But, people who lose their faith can still cast spells I'm pretty sure. Hollowed Reah can still cast, as can Parasite Solaire, and it is theorized turning hollow has to do with a mental state. So it gets pretty confusing.
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    Post by DoughGuy Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:49 pm

    Solaires no tneccesarily hollow, but possessed. Reah's faith is such a massive part of her maybe thats all she has left. She didnt lose her faith she lost everythig else. Maybe in her hollowed state she is just a devoted crazy person?
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    Post by Tolvo Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:51 pm

    The two guards of Reah as well can still cast spells, in fact I think they can even cast Wrath of the Gods. And Wrath of the gods and force are both very violent spells, how would those work with the idea?
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    Post by DoughGuy Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:55 pm

    Their were unable to protect their lady despite desperately wanting to. So now they attempt to kill any who are near. Thus they are stuck in a state of "protect the holy one by any means necessary". Their violent spells tie into this well.
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    Post by skarekrow13 Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:56 pm

    Yeah, insanity usually increases faith actually. Also, with learned miracles there's no reason to expect them to unlearn it. To be honest though, I would have to assume hollow doesn't mean a lack of faith but something else is missing and I'm not sure if that's true or not. I think in logan's case hollow could be attributed to going too far along a path (some secrets are best left alone). I'm not sure this translates to reah and pals. My best guess is my first, once learned they remain. Does any hollow cast covenant miracles? That would make my latest crazy rant crazier
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    Post by Imarreteet23 Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:04 pm

    Going with what Skarekrow said, why does insanity mean that you lose all of your talents? Alot of insane people in real life have amazing skills, they're just, well, insane. Going hollow is probably similar. You retain all your skills from before, you just become a bloodthirsty monster.
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    Post by cloudyeki Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:27 pm

    Members of the dark souls academia, we canno linger too long on this subject, for there is more to question, and theorize about. We are of the consensus that prayers or stories or mantras are in some way tied to the miracles and the faith, right?

    I wish to question the style or sorcery Vinheilm specializes in. The sorcery of the soul, and it's ties to the dragons. It seems a most bizarre thing to me.
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    Post by DoughGuy Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:30 pm

    In the thread I posted I believe someone mentioned that sorceries coul eat at the casters soul for energy However I don't like this as I'm pretty sure Seath was a master of sorcery before he was given part of Gwyns souls. I see it more as using your mental fortitude to draw energy from the environment then shape it into the form you want.
    I'm of the mind Seath started the school to raise an army of sorcerors as his allies.

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