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    The Search for Lore

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    Post by WyrmHero Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:36 pm

    Tolvo, I tried to view the letters on my 37" 1080p HDTV and I think I noticed a 'P', but the rest were small 'lines' for me.
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    Post by Tolvo Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:39 pm

    I know I saw the word glory, but that was all I could make out.
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    Post by Tolvo Tue Mar 13, 2012 2:15 pm

    Also food for thought since it was mentioned in a recent video by Epic Name Bro and thought it might be an interesting subject. Darkroot being the ruins of Oocatile, given the magic presence, Dusk's appearance, the enchanted ember being there. Just thought I might bring it up.
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    Post by WyrmHero Tue Mar 13, 2012 2:31 pm

    Yeah it could be, their city was reduced to ashes long ago, so maybe with the passage of time the forest grew.
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    Post by Tolvo Tue Mar 13, 2012 2:32 pm

    I sort of felt like it was an, "I'm a dumbass," moment. I guess it was because I never had much interest in oocatile, and once I saw the video I easily saw the connections. I'm not entirely sure still on it being the actual place, but it definitely does have connections.
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    Post by WyrmHero Tue Mar 13, 2012 2:53 pm

    I joined the Dragon Covenant today and was thinking why that damn Dragon has a bonfire, and has some kind of black fur, instead of stone scales. I also received the Dragon Eye and the head for the first time ( I had never joined them) and it says that the apostles used somw kind of rite for transforming into dragons. We already know that Velka is probably the mother of Priscilla, as the statues with the 'maiden' and a child are in both New Londo and the Painted World. It seems that the Occultists of New Londo were experimenting with Dragons (I think those female ghosts really have baby crossbreeds with lighting breath). So how about this

    1. Velka was the First Firekeeper.

    2. She abandoned her duties to keep the Flame lit.

    3. She joined the Occultists of New Londo.

    4. She was so obsessed with Dragons that she had Priscilla with Seath.

    5. She found the way using the rites to transform into the Dragon of Ash Lake.

    6. She still has 'Firekeeper abilities', lol, and she maintains the bonfire of Ash Lake lit.
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    Post by ublug Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:04 pm

    Tolvo wrote:Also food for thought since it was mentioned in a recent video by Epic Name Bro and thought it might be an interesting subject. Darkroot being the ruins of Oocatile, given the magic presence, Dusk's appearance, the enchanted ember being there. Just thought I might bring it up.
    Tolvo wrote:I sort of felt like it was an, "I'm a dumbass," moment. I guess it was because I never had much interest in oocatile, and once I saw the video I easily saw the connections. I'm not entirely sure still on it being the actual place, but it definitely does have connections.
    Tolvo wrote:"The Darkroot Forest, you will never find a more wretched hive of scum and farmers."-Tolvo
    ^^This just made me laugh lol

    There are no facts to the matter of Oolacile being Darkroot, but items and descriptions are certainly leaning in that direction. I always try to imagine how the forest must have looked in its heyday, before the forest claimed it. Did Artorias have a part in the city way back then? And how was it reduced to ashes? Was it Dragons, Bed of Chaos, or perhaps Linking the fire?
    The Search for Lore  - Page 10 945058907 -may the great flames guide thee...
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    Post by DoughGuy Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:17 pm

    It seems likely that seath would have reduced it to ashes in order to acquire Dusk, then wipe out anyone else who knew the Oolacile sorceries so he would have an edge when he went up against the gods.
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    Post by DoughGuy Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:28 am

    You know what i think Velka is the narrator of the prologue. Also at 2:08 you see someone dressed in black wielding a sword who is not any of the three lords. I've already checked and they arent using Velka's rapier or wearing the black cleric robes so i dont think its Velka. It could be the god of war. The sword does look a lot like a silver knight sword though.
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    Post by Tolvo Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:28 am

    I'm pretty sure that is a silver knight wearing the skirt/robe version of their armor, you can see statues of them in Sen's Fortress.
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    Post by DoughGuy Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:31 am

    But arent all Silver Knights right handed? As in they hold their sword in their right hand. This one is left handed. It may be used to signify that the person is different. The god of war would have been dressed as a silver knight if he was following Gwyn into battle.
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    Post by Tolvo Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:34 am

    That's not impossible, it just seems to me like making a lot out of something very little. I have always found it odd that those statues are like how they are, but I always figured it was more so to make them very stable, or possibly it was a ceremonial variant of the armor. The issue is it can be anyone wearing Silver Knight armor. Now if he wore Great Lord armor that would be another story, because of my observations at the Sunlight altar could then point that way. Who is to also say there is no Silver knight who can wield his sword in his left hand?
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    Post by DoughGuy Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:38 am

    Honestly, I think we're getting to the point where we have to look at the narrow chances. Honestly I did make the post before I realised they were wielding a silver knight sword and edited when i did. Now Im kinda grasping at straws hoping for a breakthrough.
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    Post by Tolvo Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:39 am

    No, I know how you feel. I was trying to read probably unintelligible letters at many points, fixating and just trying to find some means of deciphering them, that obviously came up with zero results.
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    Post by DoughGuy Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:35 am

    Has anyone else noticed that at the kiln on the stairway into the kiln there are a whole bunch of spectral kinghts that walk across the stairs? What the hell are they?
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    Post by FlamingHarlekin Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:35 pm

    DoughGuy wrote:Has anyone else noticed that at the kiln on the stairway into the kiln there are a whole bunch of spectral kinghts that walk across the stairs? What the hell are they?

    I've seen them befor too and when you go with framps (is that his name) then they look like Elite Knights and if you go with the other one then they are Dark Knights.
    But i could just have ran past (The first play) to fast but i could swear they looked like Elite Knights. correct me if i'm wrong

    And Sorry i have no idea what they are. mybe the Ghost of fallin Kights?
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    Post by Gol Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:10 pm

    Nah, they're always Black Knights and I don't really think they're "ghosts", it could be the souls of the knights before they became "Black Knights" or it is just phantoms of black knights traveling around the world (like the phantoms of other players you see in game) because it seems like the "stairway" to Kiln is sort of a "spacetime travelling" thing (I think it's the same type of thing than when you confront Gwyndolin)... and the knights are bound to Gwyn and consequently to the Kiln and the flame.
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    Post by DoughGuy Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:56 am

    Durig the intro Oscar says "maybe you can keep the torch lit". Reference to the first flame?
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    Post by Tolvo Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:49 am

    I wonder where Acidic has been these last few days, I hope he hasn't been sick or without internet access.

    Just a small observation, the titanite Demons have the same parts of their body broken off as the Sunlight Altar's Statue of the God of War, they also wield a Pole Arm in the same hand as it and fire lightning from it. Just a small observation.
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    Post by User Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:05 pm

    I have been doing stuff for the past few days with friends and work. I also played Mass Effect 3 during that time. I prefer Dark Souls than that game.

    I am working on the titanite demons still. I know that they are created from the same gods that created the giants, as both of their heads are of the same quality, and the giants are known to be used as blacksmiths and workers. The titanite Demon came from the same Gods that created the Giants, however the titanite Demon are created by titanite Slabs formed by magic of sorts. Now how this came to be is unknown, however these Tianites are around the areas of the three original Flame Lords, as well as in Sens and the Broken Undead Church. With many of the ties are going towards Gwyn and his follower Gods, Lost Izalith has a spawning Demon their, so it is questionable where it came from. The Blacksmith Deities are unknown at this time, although it does point towards Gwyn and the other three lords.

    The Knights of Gwyn are special. They are also clear as to why the two are different. The Black knights are Golem Knights that are controlled by a Dark Soul, or Humanity if you like. The other, the Silver Knights, are formed from the souls, normal souls. As the Black Knights are formed form the deformed shells of Silver Knights with Humanity from the First Flame... the question is where did the Silver Knights got the souls? Either Gwyn created them from part of his soul, or created it from the souls of the fallen. That is the mystery. The Ghosts in the Staircase to the First Flame is debatable, as it is not clear whether the souls were mutated into Dark Souls, or if Humanity kicked out the souls form the shells. If Gol is right, and Humanity just replaces the souls by the Souls being removed from the body, then it would be probable that the ghosts are the wandering souls of the former silver knights. However it seems more like it would be that the Souls mutated into the Dark Souls, Humanity, as Firekeepers and Darkwraiths of New Londo shows the possibility that the Humanity they collect and obtain fuses with their normal souls they harvest into one entity.

    If that is the case, then the Ghosts you see might be the Black Knights that were sent outside the first flame's resting place. As the Black Knights are immune to the effects of the Bonfire, perhaps these ghosts are those who wander the world still, and are possibly warped across the world from such Bonfires, as undead can with the Lordvessel. Or perhaps the ghosts are the Black Knights who were defeated in the world of chaos, in which these knights are somewhat cursed to wander aimlessly, like the Ghosts of New Londo.

    Their is no evidence that the Dragon of Ash Lake is Velka. Their is no information as to what has happened to Velka, other than the evidence that she is the Black Witch. It is unknown what has happened to her as of when the Chosen Undead enters the world. Of course, the Stone Dragon also has Black Hair, which is the hair of the black witch (which Nito and the Darkwraiths also have, which both show their ties towards the Witch). It is possible, but their is little to no evidence that she is or not.

    Now the question is, if the Silver Knights are formed from Gwyn, what are the four knights? Are they people which existed that obtained shards of Gwyns Soul, or were they created the same way as the Silver Knights, created from a pure soul. However due to the appearance of Artorias, it is hard to say if it is or not. However as Humanity was hunted by such Four Kings, it could be that their is a reason why the being is that of a Soul Colour, being a ghost-white silver. As the Four Kings is not a ghost, as he is able to be defeated without the curse, it can be that Artorias was created the same way as the Silver Knights, in which obtained a human quality from the harvesting of the Dark Souls, in which fused to his soul it has. Now it is debatable, as the Four Kings could just be a ghost entity, or more so a lich, as the blade it uses is the same as the Ghost and Jagged Ghost Blades used by the Ghosts of New Londo. Debatable, and still speculated.

    The Black Knights are also questions in which they either are in a chaotic state of wandering the plain of the world aimlessly, or they lead themselves. If Artorias and the four knights/kings were able to lead themselves with human qualities form such souls, it can be said that their is a reason why Gwyn chose his most loyal knights to help bring order to the chaos. However it is certain that the Knight's direction changed after the hollowment of the lord of Cinder during the War of Chaos.

    I am still working on many things across Lordran and in general Dark Souls. Debates still keep coming into mind, and I still try to find logic and reason to such mysteries. The whole of the story will be understood soon, do not worry. The search continues.
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    Post by Gol Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:17 pm

    Gol wrote:You shouldn't see the time distortion as "Peoples from the past are brought in the "future" and vice versa".
    It's more like "parralel universes", or "parrarel realities", everything takes place at the same moment, of course there are peoples who seem to come from the past but it doesn't mean we are from the "future" either.
    There is just the "Present".


    Don't know if you've seen that post but since you didn't said anything about it, I guess not.
    So, what do you think about that ?

    If it's not clear, I could still explain it better.
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    Post by User Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:26 pm

    Yes, I saw. Sadly I must say that I do not entirely understand the time distortion completely. I just see what I see. I see that when you influence with Certian phantoms, their corpses can be found (Kirk). I have found that Certian interactions with Certian characters allows and disallows summoning at times (Lautrec). Even more so, it seems that the Knight of Astora DID go before you, in which you continue what he failed to obtain; order. It seems that the songs point to his philosophy of Gwyn.

    It is hard to say whether the phantoms (online) you face are also chosen undead or just meant to be mere wanderers. That line is unclear for me. It does not really say if such undead are also supposed chosen undead seeking the vessel and the first flame, such as you and the knight of Astora. So it can not be said that I would agree not disagree. However I know that their is a past, present, and future reference towards it. Like I said, it is hard to say.
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    Post by Gol Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:09 pm

    I don't think that kgnight did go before "us".
    The messages are just tips and other things left by the devs, it only has "gamplay aspect", in my opinion.

    Maybe it was meant to be messages from Oscar because at first, Oscar was meant to be like a rival to the player, if those "removed dialogue ligns" were true though.

    What I meant is that, that "time distortion" is also like a "space distortion", everybody thinks there is 3 dimensions : length, width and depth but the time is the 4th and the others depend on it because time change those dimensions but it's also because those dimensions exist that we notice the time.

    So, like I said, the time distortion is more a spacetime distortion and everything has been "melted" and everything takes place at the same time, past, present, future is the same "moment".
    The wolrds of others (players and NPC) are just other realities or "parralel universes", different versions of a same universe.
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    Post by Tolvo Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:13 pm

    For tips though it would be odd that some of his messages have literally no purpose. Some are him just making remarks about what he sees, while one is him just stating "I Can't Take This." As well the actual effort it takes to see some of these messages could be an oversight, but I do feel possibly there is something to them.

    I have a feeling that we may need a Physicist.
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    Post by User Fri Mar 16, 2012 1:12 am

    Well, the time distortion seems to fit your argument, although I must admit I am not much of a science person, and it seems to follow that sort of philosophy and theory. Still...

    Right now, I am working on Rhea for now. As the director states, Solaire activates the flame in his world, which means that our activation, or departure (depending on what you choose) is rejected by the time distortion. Perhaps there is something that is needed for the distortion to allow the undead to accomplish what is necessary.

    What is odd to me, is that Solaie does not change in the interaction side with the player at all, and it does seem to reject what the director stated in a sense. However, it could be that the phantom and the one we see are possibly... Different. Although, it is hard to say if that is true or not.

    We also know that Rhea can be saved without ringing the bell of awakening in the undead church. She prays at the alter of Velka, as well as the infant of the god of war (or humanity... Or perhaps both). She also prays to the alter of a dead Firekeeper as well... Interesting.

    We also know that two phantoms can be summoned at the undead church: Solaire, and Lautrec. Now both can be summoned, as well as the Firekeeper soul of Blighttown and/or the bell of the demon ruins is not rung. However, he can be summoned even if the spider witch is killed. This means that the player has access to the Demon Ruins.

    Lautrec also is in a mission of sorts. Working for Fina (or it is possibly the new name for Gwynevre to hide, perhaps... The armor and ring seem to tie to her in a way...), he is seemingly attached to both the dragons and the hunting of blue phantoms (which are possibly Velka's orb, as the eye is black, which represents her). Perhaps he is needed with Solaire and Rhea as well. Of course he is noted to possibly killed a priest that was in the catacombs, waiting for Rhea. Possibly.

    The Demon Ruins and the Catacombs both have two objects meant for an ancient rite: Large Flame Ember and Rite of Kindling. Both are tied to one another, and Rhea had tried to obtain one of them. She also prays to a corpse of the Firekeeper, a statue representing Velka when she was a Firekeeper, and the written boards around it that show a man and animals, possibly representing Gwyn and his Knights. She is also noted to not only have miracles of her homeland, but miracles of the sun gods as well, and a sun medallions is seen at her corpse at some points.

    Now it takes an entire NG to obtain all 7 Firekeeper souls. It is possible that, since the FK Soul has a somewhat aura in use, that it is meant for something. The miracle, the Tranquil Walk of Peace, is also the attention in which the Knight of Astora points the player to, possibly for something similar to that of the Sign Miracle, which is used to find his hidden signs of guidance. Of course it might be for the Darkmoon Ring, not the Miracle.

    The two rite ingredients can also be obtained as well, and possibly the items of Gwyn is needed as well. The Pendant Perhaps as well, and maybe even the priest hood (it is odd that it is one of the two hats meant for a class that doesn't have it... The other is the hunter). I am now experimenting with such combinations with the two knights, Rhea, and other items. Perhaps the other embers are needed, but that is unknown.

    I will say if it works or not.

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