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    The gear, and why its seen like it is.

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    Post by DoughGuy Fri May 25, 2012 10:44 pm

    nfortunately I have very limited internet time for my PS3 so when I do get it I either use my 120 FH Tarkus or my 80 Noble Knight Ornstein.
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    Post by cloudyeki Fri May 25, 2012 10:49 pm

    Well you don't have to use it IN pvp, just use it to see how it works.
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    Post by Forum Pirate Fri May 25, 2012 10:55 pm

    Similarly, a bs id generally easily avoided by backpedaling, and the user has to be close. Lag influences how close it looks like they are but they must actually be close regardless. Where css in no way requires the opponent to be close or far away. A clever mage can pivot cast and blow you up as you try to bs punish them, as well as hit you at range.

    The only real differences I can see from a mechanical view are that people tend to fight in open areas, where landing a bs is easier and landing a css is harder, Increasing the prevolance of hring bsing and decreasing css 1hkos, and the range, bsing must be done up close, css does not.

    As far as exclusive fishing goes, a bs fisher in an open area is worlds easier to handle than a mage who got me in a stairwell or hallway, then casts css. Css is also deceptively wide, being beside the caster can get you killed, where being beside the fisher is an excellent opening to counter bs.


    And refusing to attack with the mage untill you find a narrow area or get off a twop is also relatively easy. In enclosed spaces , and argueably from stealth, a css is superior because its more difficult to avoid and has greater range.

    I intentionally shied away from discussing back stabs in depth because its far more complex than the other topics, and that did impact the article. However the problem there is the fisheing, not the ring. even without the ring, a bs from a ultra great swoed, great hammer, or great axe will do 12-1400 and a lightning gaxe will almost certainly kill you. Were the ring removed, the fishers would simply use it instead.


    Last edited by Forum Pirate on Fri May 25, 2012 10:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by cloudyeki Fri May 25, 2012 10:58 pm

    Well said forum. BTW, on the topic of CSS avoidance, rolling through it will always scare the bejeesus outta the caster. I know it did to me, and I've scared so many by just flipping against the guy and then back off for the hell of it.
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    Post by Forum Pirate Fri May 25, 2012 11:33 pm

    Thanks. As I said, each topic takes at least an hour, so I make sure to consider every angel I can think of, even If i don't mention them.

    Oh, and for fishing to work, you have to have exposed yourself. Intentionally or otherwise. They were simply pressuring you into doing so by being really obvious about their fishing
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    Post by Forum Pirate Sat May 26, 2012 6:44 pm

    Updated with the BKGA. cruitique at will.
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    Post by cloudyeki Sun May 27, 2012 12:03 am

    I approve of the BKGA entry. It's a very unique example of a heavy weapon, but it's never used to the fullest when I see it, usually just treated as a weapon that has more speed over the UGS. If all it's benefits were pushed to the best it would be a truly evil weapon.
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    Post by Ghadis_God Sun May 27, 2012 1:40 am

    Nice thread, I agree with most of what you're saying, but Min/Max builds are only outclassed in damage by builds at SL 120+ who've had the levels to heavily invest in a stat for either buffing or scaling. Most SL 50-80 invasions and even a frustratingly cheap amount of early game ones are min/max with lightning weapons.

    I can hardly recall PvPing anyone at that range without them using elemental weapons, and when they have the vit. and end. of a FC build with close to the damage output it becomes very difficult to win, so for griefing actual PvE play, those builds are really cheap.
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    Post by Forum Pirate Sun May 27, 2012 1:58 am

    Faie enough. They are better at lower sl's.

    Other builds though have the ability to cast, buff, and generally augment their regular damage without the hp drain of power within, something min/maxed builds can't do. As well, heavier hitting weapons, the dgm, the great club, are more than capable of severely out damaging anything the min/maxed builds can manage excluding the 2h elemental zweihander, unbuffed. Add slb and a non hring bs will do around 1600. Adding twop, wog, gc, hcsm, css to the mix gives more standard builds far superior adaptability. That is how one must beat them. Don't play their game, and they have serious issues due to the highly restrictive nature of such builds.
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    Post by Spurgun Sun May 27, 2012 9:53 am

    First, amazing thread. I agree with a lot of this and appreciate your work.

    About the CSS. I think its more "fair" than BS fishing, you have to have a specific build to use it, and you only get a couple of casts, once your out of casts you have to rely on something else to win. And dodging CSS isn’t really that hard, even in narrow places. I almost only get hit if it’s a gank or a sneaky CSS. But BSing, all you have to have is a elemental weapon (rapier, G halberd etc) and a hornet ring. You don’t have to have a specific build and you don’t run out of BS attempts. BS can be punished but so can the CSS.
    All in all. i rather get killed by a CSS than a BS, and i would think that the CSS user is more skilled overall. Sure BSing requires skill but it isn’t really the same thing, and you can get a long way with just a laggy internet connection.
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    Post by MsCherryBlossom Sun May 27, 2012 12:37 pm

    Thank you for posting this glorious list, it has forever made my playstyle better. Thank you oh so very much Proper Bow


    Last edited by MsCherryBlossom on Sun May 27, 2012 12:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by JoeBroski09 Sun May 27, 2012 12:41 pm

    MsCherryBlossom wrote:After reading what people dislike so much, it makes me want to use those tactics/gear even more. I think I will.
    i advice you to delete or change this post. Otherwise, you may be respinsible for flaming to occur.
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    Post by bloodpixel Sun May 27, 2012 12:49 pm

    JoeBroski09 wrote:
    MsCherryBlossom wrote:After reading what people dislike so much, it makes me want to use those tactics/gear even more. I think I will.
    i advice you to delete or change this post. Otherwise, you may be respinsible for flaming to occur.
    I advise this to. You remember what happened last time.
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    Post by Serious_Much Sun May 27, 2012 12:53 pm

    cherry, I've seen you say comments like that on a few threads. There's nothing wrong with your opinion, it's just you voice it in an aggressive and a way that baits a reaction.

    Hopefully everyone can just ignore your post rather than react to it, but I feel you should change it, we don't want more trouble here :|

    @OP Pirate you've done a decent job here, I still feel that the TWoP one needs a bit of work due to the obvious fact that people do generally exploit it for BS and the fact that while it's possible to avoid one BS, you will get BSed eventually whilst under effect just because you're a sitting duck.

    Also maybe you should add in a point that Min/Maxing isn't just about stats, it's about equipment too, using rings like DWGR/havels/ring of favour to be able to get the highest poise/weight/HP/defence they possibly can

    I particularly like the piece on the 'reactive' ideas of WoG, G combustion and spears.


    Last edited by Serious_Much on Sun May 27, 2012 1:00 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    Post by MsCherryBlossom Sun May 27, 2012 12:56 pm

    I even threw in a bow to for the honor people. Better?
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    Post by bloodpixel Sun May 27, 2012 12:58 pm

    MsCherryBlossom wrote:I even threw in a bow to for the honor people. Better?
    I'm not disrespecting your opinion. You bought the game so you can play however you want, but there are going to be people taking it the wrong way or something, like in that other thread.
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    Post by Serious_Much Sun May 27, 2012 1:02 pm

    ...Can't you see what you're doing, and how people could take it cherry?

    Your manner of speaking to people is rather defensive.. :|
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    Post by MsCherryBlossom Sun May 27, 2012 1:04 pm

    I don't see what I did wrong with my original post though, I liked the list and was truthful about what I would do with it.

    And I don't want to sway this thread of topic but I see nothing wrong with the things I say at all. Im only honest about how I play the game.
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    Post by bloodpixel Sun May 27, 2012 1:06 pm

    MsCherryBlossom wrote:I don't see what I did wrong with my original post though, I liked the list and was truthful about what I would do with it.

    And I don't want to sway this thread of topic but I see nothing wrong with the things I say at all. Im only honest about how I play the game.
    I never said that your original post was bad. I just wanted to avoid that annoying flame war from the last thread.
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    Post by JoeBroski09 Sun May 27, 2012 1:10 pm

    Hahaha! Just read the change to it. Nice, cherry XD. If we're going to talk about this, i'd advise a new topic in OffTopic, and keep it friendly.
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    Post by Tolvo Sun May 27, 2012 1:16 pm

    Hey, cut out this stuff! Take it to PM's people!
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    Post by MsCherryBlossom Sun May 27, 2012 1:17 pm

    Hmm, interested... will do after work.
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    Post by Tolvo Sun May 27, 2012 1:25 pm

    Added to the Resources Thread.
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    Post by cloudyeki Sun May 27, 2012 1:27 pm

    Actually, spacing should be brought up eventually. It's just as important to know your spacing as it is to know your moveset.
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    Post by JoeBroski09 Sun May 27, 2012 1:29 pm

    cloudyeki wrote:Actually, spacing should be brought up eventually. It's just as important to know your spacing as it is to know your moveset.
    like, range of your weapon? Like, how a halberd has long range?.... i always want to bring up halberds when you're around...

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