Solaire as God of War

Obviously the player is the actual god of war.

If you look at the God of War statue (broken) in his arm he is holding a spear which IMO looks like the Dragon Slayer Spear. just saying

It's been proven that it isn't the spear.

It's one of those flesh masses in the Depths that you can break.

Or it's Knight King Rendal

Solaire isn't the GoW, he can't even use Sunlight Spear, furthermore if we are using the spear miracles as evidence of who is the GoW then you immediately nominate the 100's of Silver Knights shown in the opening cinematic since they're all throwing sunlight spears. They're also all strong of arm, especially the unique left handed knight we see face down a dragon alone.

So I conclude the lefty knight in the cinematic is the God of War.

Why would you revive this?!
Also I thought it might be them too, but Im not sure. I think the GoW would use more than just silver knight armour and weapons.

Maybe he wasn't the full fledged GoW until after the dragon's defeat.

But he was always Gwyn's firstborn. And ... let me go read the description of gwyndolins soul.

Someone with Gwyndolins soul please post the description it gives.

Good god the Wiki's page for his soul needs updated

I know! But I need the description! This could be something.

Well I'm not at home or I'd look

And none but my DM toon has the seacne ring. Unless ...

"Special beings have special souls."
Was hoping it would say whether it was given to him or he always had it.

On that note, Solaire isn't a special being because he doesn't have a special soul. He can't be the God of War /end argument

Federally wrote:On that note, Solaire isn't a special being because he doesn't have a special soul. He can't be the God of War /end argument

Perfect. Cut, Print. I'll be in my 5-story trailer.

Federally wrote:On that note, Solaire isn't a special being because he doesn't have a special soul. He can't be the God of War /end argument

+ *** 1.

Also relating to Acidic's long post about the Onion Knight, he couldn't conclude why he was slain in Ash Lake. Well maybe he was killed for his special soul!

Though really I don't think we've met the first born.

On a side note, why does a random corpse have the ring of the firstborn?

No idea.

DoughGuy wrote:No idea.

What if he is indeed the God Of War? Maybe he returned seeking revenge or forgiveness and was slain by dolin.

If so i would see him being in the tomb, not outside it. Presumably he would have to move the statue before he could enter and fight Dolin.

That's assuming Dolin can't/won't leave. Dolin could have just gone out there, or after defeating him inside dragged him out there, or after being mortally wounded he tried to escape and died out there.

My two cents:

There are many indications to suggest Solaire is linked to Gwyn, but to write so many direct, specific references into the game and there to be no link whatsoever would be a fruitless waste of time and a waste of a golden opportunity. So its often agreed that there is a link between the two, but IS he the son of Gwyn and the former God of War?

Personally, I think he IS Gwyns son, and I think Dark Souls is a tale of a son having to prove himself the rightful heir to the throne in order to continue the struggling family reign in times of trouble, the flames are dying and the world is full of undead and we are simply a pawn, used by the gods to help him along in his quest for 'incandescence', or put simply, his quest to link the flame and save the family. But if we can find out enough of the story we will find that we have a choice, do we help him link the flame, or disagree with the Gods treatment of humans, crucially, there are only two possible endings, and there is only one choice of 'official summon' at the end. One option is the embodiment of Darkness, the other the embodiment of Light.

So here are a few speculative, but interesting points for the debate:

1. 'The 4th Soul was humanity, this was given to one of the gods making them mortal' - DoughGuy.
Because of the Gods' waning power in Lordran and the precarious situation they find themselves in, its crucial they employ whatever means necessary to rekindle the flame, it could either be a mortal that lights the fire and allows the reign of the Gods/family to continue (Gwynevere says after giving you the Key to the Kiln, the Lordvessel: 'beseech thee, succeed Lord Gwyn and Inheriteth the fire of our world'). . . or given the precarious situation, a God made mortal could also be an option and would certainly increase their chances of success. So the gods power dwindled and they abandoned Anor Londo and had to try a more subtle approach. If their best option was to make a god mortal to carry out the mission, then their choice would have to be a god that is a powerful and skilled enough warrior in mortal form to succeed, the most likely candidate to succeed would be 'the god of war', thus, Solaire was made mortal (he doesnt need powerful weapons because he IS war made mortal) and is on a secret mission to link the fire. Thinking more strategically, In order to cover their tracks and ensure Solaire can go about his mission without all the fanfare and presence of a God, and to ensure that nobody could link the 'mortal' with his former deific state, all evidence of Solaires 'former' self in statue form are hidden or destroyed. There is also evidence of help from other interesting areas.

Some evidence for the Godly subterfuge:

2. The statue at the Sunlight alter IS Solaire in his previous form as the God of War, it was however, intentionally broken to hide any evidence that could jeapordise his quest, if you remove all likenesses of the clandestine warrior, and all evidence that he IS the God of War made mortal, then he wont be as much of a target, the mission will more likely go unnoticed and he is more likely to succeed in continuing the families reign?

3. Soleil is French for 'Sun', 'Solaire' thus means 'of the sun' i.e child of the sun/gwyn. or even Sol-heir, heir of the Sun? Sol meaning sun in latin.

4. The Warriors of The Sunlight Covenant was created to aide Solaire and amass an army of 'blinkered' undead warriors that are resolutely set on rekindling the flame and restoring 'incandescence' across Lordran. Each time they use a bonfire to replenish their lifeforce they effectively keep the flame alive and add weight to their mission.

5. The corpse where you pick up the Ring of the Firstborn is sat beneath a huge Gwyn statue in Anor Londo (the corpse is sat to the left side in fact, just as the missing statue in O&S hall is to the left), BUT also note how the corpse is sat cross legged, just as Solaire is sat cross legged in Anor Londo. So perhaps this is was Solaires final spot when he was reduced to a mortal, the family wanted him to begin his mission near their home of Anor Londo, beneath the statue of Gwyn to remind him of his duty, and gave him the ring to wear as protection and as a significant family heirloom.

6. Astora - 'Astora is an advanced region ruled by royalty, known for its brave knights, skilled craftsmen, and overall beauty. The knights of Astora are the protectors of the Fire, and their high-ranking knights wield powerful enchanted and blessed weapons'

Is Astora the mortal link with the Gods, the mortal Anor Londo? Have the Gods retreated into hiding in Astora after fleeing Anor Londo? Hence Solaire of Astora? Also note Anastacia of Astora - The firekeeper wants you to link the fire at Firelink 'shrine', to ensure the fire is kept alight, but she has been forced against her will to 'keep the torch lit' (Oscar of Astora quote?), but as this was done against her will the Gods feared she would want revenge of sorts and so removed her tongue in order to stop her talking or giving away the big secret? The big secret being?

7. Astora seemingly goes out of its way to help you, notably with a dedicated central Fire Keeper, a dedicated central Blacksmith (who sells the seal of artorias, without whom it would be possible to defeat the four kings), and also a dedicated Warrior of Sunlight who is there for a number the major battles that you face and can offer powerful Sunlight based weapons to help you on your way.

8. Lets not forget Oscar of Astora who at the start of your journey, gives you the very thing that will keep you alive!!
Regrettably, I have failed in my mission. . .But perhaps you can keep the torch lit. . there is an old saying in my family.. . Thou who art Undead, art chosen…
His family? Is Astora the home of the entire family then, dedicated to keeping the fire going? Gwynevere after giving you the Key to the Kiln, the Lordvessel says 'beseech thee, succeed Lord Gwyn and Inheriteth the fire of our world' she wants you to become the successor of Gwyn and kindle the flame.
All this talk of inheriting / fathers / family makes me wonder if theyre not all connected by Astora.

9. 'The sun is a wondrous body, like a magnificent Father, If only i could be so grossly incandescent' this strongly suggests that Gwyn is the incandescent Father. When you link the flame in the kiln where Gwyn is, you are the centre of the flame and you become 'grossly incandescent', thus lighting up the world an continuing the reign. . and this is Solaires goal, to be grossly incandescent like his wondrous father, hence why you can summon him at the kiln. His goal is to carry on the lineage of the family.

- I admit this does beg the question 'why' does he have to fight and kill Gwyn at the Kiln, but that itself could be a final test of his worth, one that is already mentioned by Gwynevere, and is designed to ensure that Solaire is worthy of taking over the flame and becoming the new ruler? The King is dead, long live the King etc etc In linking the flame, apart from proving himself as heir, to kindle the bonfire using the sacred rights of the church means he would also be sacrificing his humanity and likely returning to Deific status.

10. The 'god of war' would most likely be sh!t hot at regular sword play without the need for Special Weaponry, and being the son of Gwyn would likely use lightening spears just as he did against the dragons. Both of these are applicable to Solaire. Plus Solaire has the power to pass the almighty Sunlight spear onto you which would suggest that he is at least endowed with some remnants of his former deific state.

11. Slightly vague idea, but. . .even though he looks to be in human or 'undead' form, he retains at least one link with the gods and needs not humanity, but the sun (the embodiment of fire) to remain 'sane', hence the sunlight medals associated with Solaire. However, when he puts on the sunlight maggot, this 'fake sunlight' affects him diversely and sends him mad, whereas normal humans or 'undead' it does not. He reacts differently to it because we are not the same. Just as when an undead loses their humanity they go hollow and attack, for Solaire and the gods it is the power of the sun that keeps them sane, hence why up on the surface he is continually 'gazing at the sun' to recharge his batteries, the undead use bonfires, Solaire uses the sun to recharge. This could be why he is attracted to the sunlight maggot, he thinks it may help him recharge down in the depths of Izalith and the demon ruins.

@Emi

Federally wrote:On that note, Solaire isn't a special being because he doesn't have a special soul. He can't be the God of War /end argument

DoughGuy wrote:@Emi

Federally wrote:On that note, Solaire isn't a special being because he doesn't have a special soul. He can't be the God of War /end argument

But thats my point, he no longer has a special soul, its that return to glory that he seeks, the goal of reigniting the flame for his family which would allow him to regain his status and his family to continue their reign. The point of making him mortal is essentially that he ISNT the same as the gods!