The Noble Knights (Maxed thread 4)

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    Post by dancash1808 on Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:59 am

    Because if you dont fight fair neither will we? winking


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    Post by Ahhotep1 on Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:02 pm

    Or some of us might be forced into using the DWGR......OMG!!!! the evil DWGR lol!

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    Post by Serious_Much on Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:02 pm

    I say keep the debate of the new ideas dough wishes to implement to PM, I'd rather not and I'm sure he'd rather not have the thread just turn into a giant debate.

    btw, my guy already uses the dwgr (44 Int at SL80, I need to cut corners somewhere silly )


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    Post by Ahhotep1 on Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:06 pm

    dancash1808 wrote:Because if you dont fight fair neither will we? winking
    I did't think "fair" was actually in your vocabulary winking Hummmm...interesting!! silly

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    Post by Ahhotep1 on Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:07 pm

    Dough said no PM's on this...post only :roll: Besides, whats alittle banter between foes as long as it doen't get ugly. And Dan's not ugly...are you? 8)


    Last edited by Ahhotep1 on Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:10 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Post by Serious_Much on Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:09 pm

    did he? lulz you can tell I only read the important information then.... silly

    Here's my complete scathing of the ideas then Shrug

    Okay.. I'm gonna say that I don't think these changes are a great idea.. Many if not most of the builds in the knights are SL80. Almost every of our 30 or so members would have to not only remake but have to redesign the build. I think SL60 personally is a level that is too low. That's the kind of threshold where it is pointless to use any kind of magic stat, when using any kind of scaling weapon over elemental weapons is useless... Also as a result of that change, every specialisation except the sunlit knights would take a HUGE power decrease, especially dragonslayers and crystal seekers, and the knights of havel will have trouble too.

    Changing to Dukes.. I'm not sure why it's really necessary. It gets completely in the way of one of the prestiges (or you have to go to NG++), and seeing as most knights characters will be on NG+, you know that getting into the archives is bad enough on NG, let alone NG+. It's too much effort for what it's worth. Also, it's an invasion hotspot.. Moving there from the burg will do little, except change our random unwanted invaders from potential duelists into honourless trolls (mostly). The archives is generally just a bad place to have open, it's only upside is most areas can be accessed while it is open for PvP... but the burg still beats it in that.

    Sorry Dough, I don't think these changes you're proposing be made, though I think if you explained why and the need to do this I'd be able to consider it a little more than I have for now.


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    Post by Ahhotep1 on Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:44 pm

    dancash1808 wrote:Erm. bear in mind that with lower level you are less powerful so are your opponents.
    Hummm..but you don't have the build restrictions that we do. Unless, of course, Dough is willing to modify those restrictions. And..i agree with with Serious...a lot of people are being asked to build a new char when some of us don't even have save slot to spare.
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    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:16 pm

    I agree with Serious, 80 is good. A lot of people don't have the time/desire to start a new character on a rushed schedule.

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    Post by MediocritasAurea on Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:44 pm

    I don't have really any opinion for this. Got only my SL120 character and think that I might anyway make new lower SL one.. so I'm fine with lowering or keeping soul lvl as it is.


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    Post by Shkar on Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:53 pm

    Ugh, with everyone pushing for SL 60 covenants I may have to make a somewhat weaker Plagius...

    http://tinyurl.com/8ypdrxn


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    Post by dancash1808 on Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:11 pm

    Hmm. plagius can be staggered with a greatsword if you can actually hit him with it. good to know.


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    Post by Serious_Much on Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:13 pm

    Shkar wrote:Ugh, with everyone pushing for SL 60 covenants I may have to make a somewhat weaker Plagius...

    http://tinyurl.com/8ypdrxn

    Lets not do SL60 covs. I don't know why people want to particularly, there's just not enough levels to make a decent character out of it.


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    Post by dancash1808 on Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:17 pm

    I can make a decent approximation of my SL 120 by sl 36 xD its not pretty but its viable.


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    Post by Federally on Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:35 pm

    Serious_Much wrote:
    Shkar wrote:Ugh, with everyone pushing for SL 60 covenants I may have to make a somewhat weaker Plagius...

    http://tinyurl.com/8ypdrxn

    Lets not do SL60 covs. I don't know why people want to particularly, there's just not enough levels to make a decent character out of it.

    You don't even play Dark Souls! You have none opinion silly

    Seriously tho, you can't coop everywhere at 80. It's really that simple Shrug


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    Post by Serious_Much on Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:38 pm

    dancash1808 wrote:its not pretty but its viable.

    Yeah, that's exactly my point. It's just gonna be vit gouge and elemental weapons, and if not you'll have no health.

    You can make PvP builds out of it, but the knights are a coop covenant. You can't expect to be able to be a good sunbro if you're basically a glass cannon on NG+, it just doesn't work. In the same way that lower SLs make the specialisations in the covenant besides sunlit knight useless.

    Fed, you can't coop everywhere at 60... I don't understand how that statement has any validity at proving SL60 over SL80 at all, if it's so simple that is. Going by that logic, we should have builds of SL120, as you can prove that you can get summoned EVERYWHERE at that level, but level 60 you can't...


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    Post by dancash1808 on Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:40 pm

    More people will be at SL 60 for the lords areas than 80 if my experience is anything to go by... and it was 30 vit with ele weapons. which you are correct up until somewhere between 50 and 80 is THE viable setup.

    (although If I am doing co op vit gouge with medium damage is exactly what I want at any level. stops me being easily displaced and stops me overshadowing the host.)


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    Post by Serious_Much on Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:41 pm

    That's why it's bad. I don't wanna shackle our user covenants to elemental weapon builds, it'll just ruin it.


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    Post by WyrmHero on Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:43 pm

    With SL 100 you can make a decent pure stat build (40/40/40) and elementals builds are not the only ones powerful.


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    Post by dancash1808 on Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:45 pm

    SL 100 is a pretty nice level for PvP ill grant you wyrm. but who on earth is still going through the PvE bosses at that level??? thats what we have to think about when considering levels for the knights.


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    Post by Federally on Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:48 pm

    Serious_Much wrote:
    dancash1808 wrote:its not pretty but its viable.

    Yeah, that's exactly my point. It's just gonna be vit gouge and elemental weapons, and if not you'll have no health.

    You can make PvP builds out of it, but the knights are a coop covenant. You can't expect to be able to be a good sunbro if you're basically a glass cannon on NG+, it just doesn't work. In the same way that lower SLs make the specialisations in the covenant besides sunlit knight useless.

    Fed, you can't coop everywhere at 60... I don't understand how that statement has any validity at proving SL60 over SL80 at all, if it's so simple that is. Going by that logic, we should have builds of SL120, as you can prove that you can get summoned EVERYWHERE at that level, but level 60 you can't...

    We've fought plenty of wars at 80, and the last war at 80 was a dud due to too little coop for the knights and too many SL120 ganks for the invaders. We can't continue to do the same things in the same places, it doesn't work anymore and its getting boring anyway. So we have to have an SL change and it has to be appropriate for the new arena ToTG. So figure out what you guys wanna do.


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    Post by dancash1808 on Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:53 pm

    fortunately I dont think many gankers like TotG but neither do non questers really so Idk.


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    Post by billy_bayonet on Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:15 pm

    ive done some tsting, invading ToTG with my Sl55 darkstalkers, very busy i then loaded my sl 90 Gwyn cosplay and invaded.....failed failed failed....reloaded 55, invasions did the same in new londo


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    Post by DoughGuy on Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:40 pm

    Ok the reason for the change in location to the archives was to give us a better area to host. The burg is full of invaders, and we cant co-op there while we have an event there, limiting us to hosting. Ans out of th eareas our knigths will have open, it is the best place to use. I would prefer anor londo, but thats impossible for obvious reasons.

    The SL drop is in relation to our enemies. The DS are 55 and GS are 60. With the LH not a powerful force anymore out cap of 80 is too high for use to be GLed (I think, we ned testing on wheterh its 10 or 15%) by the GS, and there is a significant bufere between use and the DS.

    Serious, I hadnt considered how this will affect the prestiges, thank you for reminding me. Ahho thanks for bringing up the armour restrictions too.

    Dan while a lot of people start th elord areas at 60 remember there are 4 of them, and people will level up. By being 80 we are right in the middle, hitting as low as 62 and as high as 98. We're basically able to co-op with anyone who will be doing the lord areas.

    So obviously this needs more thought. Just to remind everyone Im not saying you have to remake your 80 as a 60. I'd prefer yo ukeep the 80s for co-op still, and make a separate 60. And I know about character slots. I started making a 60 last night and had to make a new PSN for it. And its gonna be hard, but I think I made a prety good dragonslayer, who can still use a scaling weapon (Ill stell you how it goes).

    So in conclusion Fed there are points brought up that mean this transition will not be easy, and I may have to make a change to armour restrictions for knights making 60s to allow them to make competitive builds.


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    Post by whitechikz11 on Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:52 pm

    My main NK toon will be lonely in 120 now sad


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    Post by ViralEnsign_ on Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:30 pm

    Oh boy do I have some goodies planned for this war!!!


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