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    Post by Federally on Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:19 pm

    Dough I'm flexible, I'm trying to negotiate a middle ground that allows for general satisfaction and a lot of action during the conflict. If you want we can split the difference and meet at 70 for the GS and NK and have the DS and LH(will they be invaders?) come up to 60-65.


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    Post by whitechikz11 on Sat Jul 21, 2012 10:34 am

    Just finished coop-ing with Dough and it was fun. Now Legolas is ready to make headshots to his enemies winking


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    Post by Serious_Much on Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:36 pm

    This definitely going ahead then or what?

    I think the idea of reducing armour restrictions is good, but kinda ruins the whole country system we have in place right now. Like I said too, the specialisation classes will need a huge overhaul from this too to make SL60 builds work.

    To make my point about the specialisation classes:
    Dragonslayer: http://tinyurl.com/bllwbs5 A lightning BSS would do more damage, and that;s when you have to 2 hand it to have enough levels.
    Knight of Havel: http://tinyurl.com/cgrpyyf 36 End on an SL60 build just to be able to MID ROLL using FaP and havels rings...
    Crystal Seeker: http://tinyurl.com/crjqecj Having to use crystal magics and weapons at SL60 is crazy... 270 AR on pure physical weapon is a joke (and that's at +5), oh and it doesn't even have 1000 health.

    We need to throw some ideas together first on how we could adapt to SL60 before saying we will. Like I said before if the changes force us to make PvP builds when we are a coop based covenant and abandon the class system we've got, we kinda need to think whether it's a change that's worth it or if it's gonna make the covenant reshape and be something wholly other than what it is now.

    We need to think more before rushing through these changes without adapting, and finding it was a bad call.


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    Post by Federally on Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:45 pm

    Serious_Much wrote:This definitely going ahead then or what?

    I think the idea of reducing armour restrictions is good, but kinda ruins the whole country system we have in place right now. Like I said too, the specialisation classes will need a huge overhaul from this too to make SL60 builds work.

    To make my point about the specialisation classes:
    Dragonslayer: http://tinyurl.com/bllwbs5 A lightning BSS would do more damage, and that;s when you have to 2 hand it to have enough levels.
    Knight of Havel: http://tinyurl.com/cgrpyyf 36 End on an SL60 build just to be able to MID ROLL using FaP and havels rings...
    Crystal Seeker: http://tinyurl.com/crjqecj Having to use crystal magics and weapons at SL60 is crazy... 270 AR on pure physical weapon is a joke (and that's at +5), oh and it doesn't even have 1000 health.

    We need to throw some ideas together first on how we could adapt to SL60 before saying we will. Like I said before if the changes force us to make PvP builds when we are a coop based covenant and abandon the class system we've got, we kinda need to think whether it's a change that's worth it or if it's gonna make the covenant reshape and be something wholly other than what it is now.

    We need to think more before rushing through these changes without adapting, and finding it was a bad call.

    Or you simply need to make builds that will work for the war and keep the 80s for normal operations.


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    Post by Serious_Much on Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:15 pm

    You mean make separate builds for wars? They'd still be held back by the armour limitations, I just did the specialisations not the countries as it would take too long.

    I don't see the need to make people create a new build for wars, seems excessive, some may not have spare spaces for both a war build and general knights build and some people struggle to make time for the war, let alone create a devoted build for it :|

    Also Fed, I'm sorry but are you a member of the knights? I'm not sure but to be fair I'd say that the knights should discuss it internally rather than feel pressured by other covenants.


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    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:18 pm

    I think it's fine provided those pushing for these new build provide their followers with a boatload of Hero's/Great Hero's Souls.

    I see people give out Slabs, weapons, Humanities, Divine Blessings, armors, etc...

    Why not souls?

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    Post by Serious_Much on Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:20 pm

    Well that depends on whether people are fine accepting ill-gotten materials, but something like that would definitely help.

    However, I just noticed mostly people from other covenants have been debating this, Dough if/when you read this, I think we should get the knights general reaction and implement changes or not based on their feedback. (not to be a prick or anything, but I feel a change to the covenant shouldn't be forced through by people not even in the knights)


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    Post by dancash1808 on Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:38 pm

    Haha implying that we are forcing you guys to do anything winking


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    Post by Serious_Much on Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:40 pm

    Well, more influenced. bad choice of words, you know what I meant silly

    It's just that I want to see everyone's perspective on it before any changes are made, two heads are better than just one, dough's in this case lol!


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    Post by dancash1808 on Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:54 pm

    But doughs is big and doughy enough to count for at least 7 silly
    and fair enough big grin I certainly hope everyone gets a chance to offer a perspective. however the people who take longer to reply are likely to be less active in the events silly


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    Post by Serious_Much on Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:56 pm

    I wasn't in the war and took very little time to reply... Do I buck your trend? silly


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    Post by dancash1808 on Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:04 pm

    You do. but your DkS disk is broke and your our most common poster. in general my trend is accurate silly


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    Post by Serious_Much on Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:07 pm

    actually my ps3 broke and ate my Dark souls silly But yeah, that's a good point winking

    Still though, would like to see what everyone thinks and the ideas people come up with if we choose to accomodate the changes.

    Based on Dough's argument, I feel that Dukes would be better, the coop element we can get there instead of the burg has swayed me, though it's still a ***** to get there and the lore/prestige parts of the cov disagree with it. I'm sure someone or even myself could invent a lore reason for the change silly


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    Post by biotheimpaler on Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:12 pm

    I'm kind of undecided to the decision to change SL and home base, I really wouldn't mind making a SL 60 build since 60-80 is when i get invaded most. I just hope i can make a decent SL 60 toon silly, also Dukes Archives has always been a nuisance for me but I could deal with it.


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    Post by Federally on Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:39 pm

    The reason the other covenents pushed for you guys to move home bases is we need a place to attack the Knights. The Knights have been a purely offensive force for a while and the time may come when we attack you guys, so you need a place to call home we can actually fight a war in and the Burg didn't cut it.

    Serious you're missing the point so I'll say it again. The wars will not always work at 80, a change has to be made if we expect to continue having these events.


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    Post by Serious_Much on Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:50 pm

    Fed, we had a base which was the upper burg, though we knew the problems with it at that time we didn't wanna consider the archives due to lore reasons, but now since it will make warring far easier we're making it an option.

    Also I get that it may be difficult but I doubt complete impossibility, after all they've worked so far. Maybe I haven't been in all the wars, but I've attended some and they haven't really brought level up as a massive issue, it's more the attendance being poor (not that we can help that)

    Besides, as a coop covenant naturally our builds will be different. We're not always gonna want 2 spell slots for buff and DMB or a vit gouge elemental weapon like PvP builds use. It's far easier to make a lower level build specialised for PvP than PvE as it only has one single role really, a coop build has numerous and needs to be more adaptable.


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    Post by whitechikz11 on Sun Jul 22, 2012 1:17 am

    hmmm...we have a lot of enemies and I'm feeling them now, but it doesn't change anything silly


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    Post by DoughGuy on Sun Jul 22, 2012 2:57 am

    Im still undecided about this decision. It will have a huge impact and honestly I dont think it will work so I dont really want to implement it. We may just have to be happy as we are. What we do need to do though, is test if a SL 80 knight can see a SL 60 GL sign.


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    Post by Federally on Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:14 am

    DoughGuy wrote:Im still undecided about this decision. It will have a huge impact and honestly I dont think it will work so I dont really want to implement it. We may just have to be happy as we are. What we do need to do though, is test if a SL 80 knight can see a SL 60 GL sign.

    The Gravesworn can level up,it's a matter of what SLwe will get traffic at, not a matter of meeting us at 60


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    Post by whitechikz11 on Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:58 am

    DoughGuy wrote:Im still undecided about this decision. It will have a huge impact and honestly I dont think it will work so I dont really want to implement it. We may just have to be happy as we are. What we do need to do though, is test if a SL 80 knight can see a SL 60 GL sign.
    I think we don't need to adjust ourselves for them. If sl80 will not work against sl55-sl60, then we might just reduce our sl to 75 or 70 being the least. But as i saw the points of our fellow knights, we must still remain from being sl80 as they can increase their sl just to meet us.


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    Post by DoughGuy on Sun Jul 22, 2012 7:30 am

    Federally wrote:
    DoughGuy wrote:Im still undecided about this decision. It will have a huge impact and honestly I dont think it will work so I dont really want to implement it. We may just have to be happy as we are. What we do need to do though, is test if a SL 80 knight can see a SL 60 GL sign.

    The Gravesworn can level up,it's a matter of what SLwe will get traffic at, not a matter of meeting us at 60
    If you guy swent to 65, we would be in range for sure, and you would still get plenty of traffic. For the DS they can stick to 55, as they can invade up any amount. I think this would be the best solution.


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    Post by Serious_Much on Sun Jul 22, 2012 8:23 am

    Problem is with that, I'd imagine that GLing will stay as close to their own level as possible due to the online population, I'd imagine even if they levelled up, being as close to them as possible would be needed...

    However GL are in fairness a temperamental covenant that doesn't work too well. It's so random wars with them are better to just be red sign duelling because even if you're and identical level, you'll have difficulty getting GL'd in the first place (look at the first war)

    Where are you with the archives decision? Is that a sure thing now dough?


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    Post by whitechikz11 on Sun Jul 22, 2012 8:25 am

    So meaning are we going to stick with sl80? any final decisions or need some testing or discuss further more?


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    Post by DoughGuy on Sun Jul 22, 2012 8:27 am

    We'll have to wait for Fed's response on the SL thing.

    Archives thing is still up for debate.


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    Post by Serious_Much on Sun Jul 22, 2012 8:45 am

    Okay, to be fair I agree with you that as a home base for wars, the fact we can get a coop stream there makes things a lot easier to set up on a defence level, though it is a ***** to get to on NG+ silly

    Only real problems is the lore and practicality. I think we discussed before we made the burg our base that it was free, doesn't get in the way of a playthrough much but because of our prestige system and our lore. Having seath as one of our greatest enemies whilst sharing a house with him seems kinda screwed up silly Also the poor dragonslayers will have to go through NG++ to reopen it up...

    Also most importantly, the lore I wrote for the seekers' founding was based on the fact it isn't our base lol!


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