A proposal to all the BS/WotG users out there.

I understand and appreciate that back-stabbing is a part of the game, with lag-back-stabbing being the extreme, but why follow one up with a burst from WotG?

Seriously, is winning really that important to you?

How anyone can gain any sense of gratification out of this is way beyond me?

I mean, so what you win in two hits, whoopee bloody do!

No matter how appealing it might appear to be at first there has got to come a time when the continued use of this one tactic becomes just plain boring, and seeing as that this would appear to be the only one in a lot of my fellow Gamers top drawers, especially those who frequent the Garden at night, I can only see that this would dramatically reduce their appreciation of what is undeniably a great game, which is a crying shame as there is so much fun to be had by merely mixing it up a bit from time to time.

And so my proposal to all of the regular back-stabbing WotG users, especially those who lag-back-stab, is this...

For one night shelve this tactic, and try something new.

It's not a ground breaking concept, and you will probably end up losing a heck of a lot, more than you're used to, but I can guarantee that given time you will start to win, and that is when I have no doubt you will discover that these victories taste a heck of a lot sweeter than any you may have experienced in the past!

What have you got to loose?

"Umbasa!"

I must admit, that's my only strategy against gankers. Its really effective against 3 vs 1 but in Duels is very cheap (my opinion)

I never saw too many people doing that at least, maybe because I'm mostly invading than dueling right now

M8 the other night in the Garden, it was like every other Invader was willing to resort to this tactic, after they discovered (pretty damn quick) that I could take away most of their HP's with a quick succession of blows from my +15 buffed BSS. Most of the times I managed to survive, but on a couple of occasions my timing was out, leading to a quick death on my part.

What really grinds my gears though is when having got the victory that way the Invading party then proceeds to rub your nose in it by pointing to the ground, or by doing that God-awful "what is it?" gesture, which is usually the time when the air turns decidedly blue in my household.

"Umbasa!"

I don't blame the hunters. Most of the time they use that trick to kill gankers. Personally, I don't use Wotg since it seems a bit cheap, but I have no problem having it used against me unless it's spammed.

haha, I have in the last 10 duels parried them riposted them and lag has ruined me as a HR OHKO bs has found its way magically in my arse

What they are doing, or so I think from your post, is that you are backstabbed, and then on the wake-up they do a Wrath of Gods. This is a bad tactic that you can counter with some practice. What is happening right now, your roll on wake-up has not yet reached its invincibility frames (even the Flip has some missing), and you'll take the hit. Neither this, nor a Great Combustion are impossible to dodge. However, it requires a much smaller window to do so, and it is a bit awkward to get the correct timing. All I can say is practice this wake-up, and it might be worth summoning a friend to practice with base Pyro Gloves, and Thourland Talisman.

Once get the timing down for this dodge, you can go for a roll backstab. The same direction of roll is that of countering the most common kind of chain backstab, and I do it whenever someone tries to attack me on wake-up. It'll help even out the fight if you pull it off, and it is one of the more satisfying techniques you can do. If you time the roll to dodge the damage, almost every time you'll get the backstab. It will work for more than Wrath of the Gods, and Great Combustion; only the fastest attacks that try to hit you during wake-up can avoid being punished by a roll backstab from the ground. You'll find many people will back away from a floored opponent, and it isn't out of respect, they'll want to avoid a retaliatory stab.

If you see them pull out a talisman or pyro glove after BSing you, get ready to roll BS punish that junk. I've turned SO many fights around doing that.

What roan and damage said, of course it doesnt always go perfectly. I do kinda get pumped when i see someone try to give me some badly timed wake up, cause i know its time to roll punish their ***. I noticed you said "invaders" use this tactics. I personally have given up complaining about gankers, but if you are the host and have other summons with you invaders will treat you with no respect and basically do w/e it takes to kill you.

That is the worst, especially if you've seemingly been on top for most of the fight. It's safe to say you've been cheated when you find yourself being back-stabbed from the front, and royally buggered when the frontal lag-back-stab is delivered from what would appear to be multiple arms lengths away.

Wait, WoG then a backstab or a backstab and then a WoG? Because if it's the latter I do it worst, with Chaos Storm.

Roan/Damage I'm pretty new to the DkS PvP scene, and so a rolling back-stab is probably a little ways out of league at this moment in time, but I'll be sure to give it a go the next time.

FruitPunchNinja I always Host alone. Well there was that one occasion where I was Invading but ended up materializing as a summons, but that was a glitch and so it doesn't really count.

Gazman0169 wrote:Roan/Damage I'm pretty new to the DkS PvP scene, and so a rolling back-stab is probably a little ways out of league at this moment in time, but I'll be sure to give it a go the next time.

You're perfect person to read the guide that I put together. Don't be intimidated by the size; just read the parts you want to. I suggest doing a brief look on the Mechanics, and scroll through Movesets to see some techniques you can use for your favourite weapon. If you need someone to practice with, and I am on, just remind me; I'll be glad to help.

Thanks roan, I'll be sure to keep that in mind, and thanks for posting the link to your how-to guide.

No wait up, I was talking about a surprise WoG, then rush and backstab someone who got hit.


Not backstab someone and then spam WoG.



here

Edit: lol took long time to find one but, in the video above, check out 05:18

Oh, haha. Don't get hit with the wrath. Skip the part where you get BSed and go straight to roll punishing.

there is one pretty easy way of avoiding the wog, when you get up you automaticly face them just make sure you have a decent shield block the hit and then pivot BS, get a freind help you practice the pivots youll be a "boss" in no time

Gazman0169 wrote:I understand and appreciate that back-stabbing is a part of the game, with lag-back-stabbing being the extreme, but why follow one up with a burst from WotG?

Seriously, is winning really that important to you?

How anyone can gain any sense of gratification out of this is way beyond me?

I mean, so what you win in two hits, whoopee bloody do!

No matter how appealing it might appear to be at first there has got to come a time when the continued use of this one tactic becomes just plain boring, and seeing as that this would appear to be the only one in a lot of my fellow Gamers top drawers, especially those who frequent the Garden at night, I can only see that this would dramatically reduce their appreciation of what is undeniably a great game, which is a crying shame as there is so much fun to be had by merely mixing it up a bit from time to time.

And so my proposal to all of the regular back-stabbing WotG users, especially those who lag-back-stab, is this...

For one night shelve this tactic, and try something new.

It's not a ground breaking concept, and you will probably end up losing a heck of a lot, more than you're used to, but I can guarantee that given time you will start to win, and that is when I have no doubt you will discover that these victories taste a heck of a lot sweeter than any you may have experienced in the past!

What have you got to loose?

"Umbasa!"

A suggestion to you, don't assume everyone who uses those things relys on them. I use both, as do many others, but if I also use evey other tactic I can come up with. Ask spur or fatty of wyrm, they'll tell you that bsing is one of my lesser used tactics, because the tactic is flawed as a primary form of attack.

You know when my victorys are the sweetest? When I had a 20 minute long fight where I had to put everything I had into it, trying ever trick and tactic available to just barely eke out a win.

You know my least fun losses? When I lose in FC to a spear user roll poking me to death because I can't counter the damn thing with what few tactics actually work. (roll bsing, wog locking, twop)

Now if you'll kindly take your sense of superiority and stuff it, I'll get back to enjoying myself however I please.

I use various wake up attacks, most are the slow R2s of various weapons, the Great Scythe's one being my favorite. I also use the beam of magic R2 of MLGS, Chaos Storm as I've already mentioned and WoG. The only thing I wouldn't do unless my opponent heals is chain backstab, which is cheap of the cheapest to even dishonorable. Mind you I'm not a backstab fisher, is my prize for countering them.

GLGS R2 is pretty good if it connects cause they get knocked down and you can just do it again :O

Totally agree, Forum.

There are players that love to troll.. it's the same reason why you have 3 players jumping on 1 Invader.

How I always look at "impossible" condition, is to figure out how to over come it. Most of the time, I excel and finish them off easily.

I get more joy, achievement, and experience by winning them. Plus a Slap on their ego on how inferior they are to me.

Gazman if you need a Practise partner I'm more than willing to help, I need Practise at this myself , maybe we can help each other

I don't think BS/WoG is cheap (unless lag). Its like saying combos In fighting games are cheap.

I do think they should lower BS hitbox to where it was in Demon's Souls though.

I'm sorry to say this and i don't mean to sound like a jerk, but i just don't understand the constant complaining about backstabs and wotg. Gazman, you said it yourself, you are pretty new to PvP. Of course those things seem cheap because they're damaging and fairly easy to use. But I promise, they're not that bad once you learn to anticipate and deal with them. When you see your opponent is using Crown of Dusk/Crown of the dark sun, expect wotg or great combustion.

If you see a rapier/bandit's knife, expect backstab fishing. Do yourself a favor and practice locking on and off while fighting. It allowes you to use dead angles and counter backstabbing. With slower weapons, i have killed countless of backstab fishers. Attack towards them locked off and when they start circling you, turn around (during your attack animation) and most of the time you hit them. This sometimes allowes you to stunlock them since their shield is most likely down. Be ready to turn around again if they didn't get stunned and try to roll behind you. In fact, it is often a good idea to turn a little bit each time your attack lands to prevent parry/roll backstab.

I'm sure you hear this a lot, but even if you hate backstabs, learn how to do them. Backstabbing is a good way to counter spell spamming/backstabs. This doesn't mean you have to fish. Think it as a way to teach them a lesson. When someone is casting a spell, instead of rolling sideways, consider rolling towards them.

And lastly, if someone "lagstabs" you from front, they're not automatically doing it on purpose. It is an important part of PvP to get used to lag, and reacting to your opponents actions early. Of course, sometimes the lag is so bad that you can't do anything about it, but it's actually very rare and it doesn't make your opponent a bad player.. Mostly, if you're getting backstabbed, you've done a mistake. Maybe without realizing it.

I do get backstabbed sometimes, it happens to everyone, but with experience and a lot of practice you will learn to play against those tactics and even use them to your own advantage. For me, backstab fishers are the easiest to beat.

Getting backstabbed, like you said, is the result of a mistake YOU made. Extreme lag excluded. Not standard lag, EXTREME lag.