So what do you think the number one thing wrecking Dark Souls is?

Back Lot Basher wrote:

Gazman0169 wrote:I disagree with your 'cowards and bullies' remark, for the plain and simple reason that unless we know them personally there is no way for us to know what is really going on in their minds.

A fair point, and I probably shouldn't generalize about all of them. Instead, I shall "speculate that many, or most, of them are cowards and bullies, because they prefer to beat and humiliate those with inferior gear, if not skills".

I think anyone who invades a lot at low levels, even without OP gear, gets an edge over new players simply because of their experience. They've seen the movesets of every weapon out there, and can counter a lot of attacks. I wouldn't classify those people as cowards or bullies...they're just better at the game because they've put in time in the trenches.

Cold and ruthless, preying on the weak for pure gain. In my mind as good a description of a low-level Invader as there has ever been.

I do not understand why so many people get so hung up over low-level OP Invaders, as surely they are the pure embodyment of what an Invader should be. I may not always like what they do, but I am not foolish enough to expect them to behave any differently, and thankfully they very rarely fail to disappoint in this regard.

Here's something for you all to mull over.

Darkwraith Knights show the player no mercy, they are cold and unrelenting in their pursuit when they catch sight of you, and they care not a jot what your SL is or how underpowered you may be.

So why is it that members of the Darkwraith covenant are expected to act any differently?

And ask yourself this, if you are not as hostile and derogatory towards Darkwraith Knights as you are towards low-level OP Darkwraith Invaders, why is that? :suspect:

There's no point throwing logic at people who are getting uptight about specific game mechanics. Haters gonna hate.

steveswede wrote:There's no point throwing logic at people who are getting uptight about specific game mechanics. Haters gonna hate.

That's as maybe, but it's still daft in my mind.

I'm sure you understand. I don't care whether you agree or not, but acting like you don't understand is just ridiculous.

Gazman0169 wrote:Here's something for you all to mull over.

Darkwraith Knights show the player no mercy, they are cold and unrelenting in their pursuit when they catch sight of you, and they care not a jot what your SL is or how underpowered you may be.

So why is it that members of the Darkwraith covenant are expected to act any differently?

And ask yourself this, if you are not as hostile and derogatory towards Darkwraith Knights as you are towards low-level OP Darkwraith Invaders, why is that? :suspect:

Don't get me wrong, Gaz...despite the way I define them, honestly, I actually feel much like you do. They do at least throw a wrench into what we consider an "ordinary" playthrough. I know that seems like a contradiction, but the Souls' games have always been about throwing something unexpected at you, and stomping your face into the mud. My attitude has always been that Griefers represent that intangible, even if I don't like getting stomped by them.

Your other question about the Darkmoons...I guess for me the difference is, they don't don't control the matchmaking. If they're level 100 and they invade a new player who has sinned, it isn't really their fault. But yes, in principle, it's still and unfair matchup.

callipygias wrote:I'm sure you understand. I don't care whether you agree or not, but acting like you don't understand is just ridiculous.

No what's ridiculous is you expecting everyone to have the same moral code of conduct as yourself, and then come on here moaning and btching like some spoiled little brat when you come across the odd player who chooses not to play the game the way you feel it should be played. So what there are players who choose to low-level OP Invade, that's their choice, you may not like it, I may not like it, but they have every right to do it, and as I've have hinted towards before if you treat/view them any differently to Darkwraith Knights then you are in my mind nothing more than an outright hypocrite!

Again, Gaz, I don't care if you agree, meaning I don't expect anything from your code of conduct or anyone else's. My only point in the post you quoted was that it's ridiculous to claim you don't understand why people would have a problem with griefers. It has nothing to do with griefing itself.

And as I've said, I have no respect for griefers, but I love that they're there. Makes co-op in the Burg great fun.

It is their fualt. Unprovoked violence is obviously bad and if they read the indictment and book of the guilty descriptions (like they should if they don't know what they do) then they know there are concequences for murder and cov breaking. They are warned. Fairness doesn't come into it.

Back Lot Basher wrote:

Gazman0169 wrote:Here's something for you all to mull over.

Darkwraith Knights show the player no mercy, they are cold and unrelenting in their pursuit when they catch sight of you, and they care not a jot what your SL is or how underpowered you may be.

So why is it that members of the Darkwraith covenant are expected to act any differently?

And ask yourself this, if you are not as hostile and derogatory towards Darkwraith Knights as you are towards low-level OP Darkwraith Invaders, why is that? :suspect:

Don't get me wrong, Gaz...despite the way I define them, honestly, I actually feel much like you do. They do at least throw a wrench into what we consider an "ordinary" playthrough. I know that seems like a contradiction, but the Souls' games have always been about throwing something unexpected at you, and stomping your face into the mud. My attitude has always been that Griefers represent that intangible, even if I don't like getting stomped by them.

Your other question about the Darkmoons...I guess for me the difference is, they don't don't control the matchmaking. If they're level 100 and they invade a new player who has sinned, it isn't really their fault. But yes, in principle, it's still and unfair matchup.

Darkmoons? I was talking about Darkwraiths. I realise that Darkmoons have no real control over who they invade, which was why I purposely side-stepped them.

callipygias wrote:Again, Gaz, I don't care if you agree, meaning I don't expect anything from your code of conduct or anyone else's. My only point in the post you quoted was that it's ridiculous to claim you don't understand why people would have a problem with griefers. It has nothing to do with griefing itself.

And as I've said, I have no respect for griefers, but I love that they're there. Makes co-op in the Burg great fun.

Oh, I understand why people have a problem with low-level OP invaders, or griefers as you call them, at the end of the day it all boils down to them being butt-hurt over being beaten as they see it so cheaply. Instead of just brushing it off, and moving on as any sensible person would, they then come on forums like this one moaning and btching about how they were wronged and how low-level OP invading/griefing is 'supposedly' killing the game, by turning off the noobs. What complete and utter rot! I can guarantee that every single one of us here could share an incident or two about how in our time we were low-level OP invaded/griefed, but we're all still here, and our numbers are growing daily. I would therefore suggest that low-level OP invaders are doing us all a great service, by weeding out the lesser skilled and lesser determined amongst us. At any rate, as I have pointed out the way they behave is no different to the way the in-game Darkwraith Knights behave, and so I personally view them as nothing more than a passing obstacle to either overcome or fall foul to. I don't care what their motives for doing what they do might be, as there are far more important things for my mind to be occupied with, not least of all how the heck am I gonna get passed the 4 Kings with only a +5 Fire Barbed straight sword when they can easily OHK my lowly SL3 Knight Kirk wannabe.

^I agree there too. (I actually killed my first griefer with bleed, i died to though.)

Unless you're wearing Dusk's ring or cursed 4 Kings can't 1-shot anybody in NG.

But I'm wondering why you'd make a thread that asks people to discuss what they think is wrecking the game and get so bent out of shape when they do? (I'm not one of those people, btw, as previously stated: NOTHING is wrecking Dark Souls.)

Um...is it just me, or has this thread become uncharacteristically hostile compared to most on the Souls' forums? Just saying....

callipygias wrote:Unless you're wearing Dusk's ring or cursed 4 Kings can't 1-shot anybody in NG.

But I'm wondering why you'd make a thread that asks people to discuss what they think is wrecking the game and get so bent out of shape when they do? (I'm not one of those people, btw, as previously stated: NOTHING is wrecking Dark Souls.)

Wanna bet on that!

As for your other point, if you re-read my initial post you will see it was never intended to initiate a discussion about what is supposedly 'wrecking' Dark Souls, but was merely meant to highlight the dangers (as I see it) of continued moaning when it comes to things such as Dark Magic being 'overpowered', when it clearly isn't, as this invariably leads to irreversible changes being made when they were never warranted to begin with.

Back Lot Basher wrote:Um...is it just me, or has this thread become uncharacteristically hostile compared to most on the Souls' forums? Just saying....

You think? That's what you get when you start to stand up for a hated minority!

And before anyone says anything, I realise I've not been a Saint in this regard either. :oops:

Gaz did you want this thread to continue? You said you were signing off but not sure if that means you are asking for a lock or not? It's certainly been a telling study this far on all the different ways people approach the game.

Leave it open in case someone else wants to comment, it'll probably die off on it's own anyway, but I've said all I want to say, and so I'm going to walk away from it before I say something I shouldn't.

Thanks to everyone who's participated up to this point, and I apologise if I've offended anyone.