A note about cheap/not cheap

yea I'm not skilled enough for PvP yet and I know it. I would get very frustrated from constant backstabs and ripostes no doubt. As far as honor/ethics or cheap/not cheap goes, the function to do so is there so people will utilize it to their advantage.

I believe OP's point was that, with the exception of glitching/hacking, everything is considered fair or unfair by someone and that if you believe a tactic to be unfair, rather than come here and rage, come here to discuss ways to counter that tactic because, not only is it highly unlikely that the people who use those tactics see them as unfair, but that demanding a nerf or declaring that tactic op limit both your skill as a player and harm the meta as well by imposing unnatural/unnecessary restrictions on "fair" gameplay that limit variety and creativity. A tactic is developed then a counter, then a alternate tactic then a counter ect. if no one looks for that counter and instead deems it 'cheap' then the cycle breaks and the meta we all love dies.

cdd1983 wrote:I'm still "young" at this game and I haven't done any PvP but respect my opinion or not doesn't it go "all's fair in love and war". Hypothetically if the battles were real life, say we lived in the middle ages for example, I wouldn't think twice about backstabbing or employing any other "cheap" tactic if it was my life or yours. Its like rage quits for campers and such in FPS's. If someone beats you accept it, regardless of the tactics used (excluding hackers of course), learn from your mistakes and keep going. Just saying...

If we were in maddle ages you wouldn't say the same thing.

Gol wrote:

cdd1983 wrote:I'm still "young" at this game and I haven't done any PvP but respect my opinion or not doesn't it go "all's fair in love and war". Hypothetically if the battles were real life, say we lived in the middle ages for example, I wouldn't think twice about backstabbing or employing any other "cheap" tactic if it was my life or yours. Its like rage quits for campers and such in FPS's. If someone beats you accept it, regardless of the tactics used (excluding hackers of course), learn from your mistakes and keep going. Just saying...

If we were in maddle ages you wouldn't say the same thing.

actually he might, its impossible to say, there are to many variables however his point is valid. i actually agree with him. my only rule outside the kiln or londo is 'no bsing during a pre-fight bow'.

Carphil wrote:

cdd1983 wrote:I'm still "young" at this game and I haven't done any PvP but respect my opinion or not doesn't it go "all's fair in love and war". Hypothetically if the battles were real life, say we lived in the middle ages for example, I wouldn't think twice about backstabbing or employing any other "cheap" tactic if it was my life or yours. Its like rage quits for campers and such in FPS's. If someone beats you accept it, regardless of the tactics used (excluding hackers of course), learn from your mistakes and keep going. Just saying...

Ok but now imagine a honor duel to the death, you have your sword and the opponent has his sword, nothing more. Would you poison your opponent before the fight? Well I would not, even if that risks my life.

cdd1983 wrote:I would if I could. Survival of the fittest! Is it honorable? nope, would I still be alive? yes sir. Listen that honor duel is a bunch of crap. Thats why people don't do it anymore outside of fencing. Once people saw that "honorable" lost to guerilla tactics every single time they all changed their tune.

It's this mix of people that will make this game last.

Forum Pirate wrote:I believe OP's point was that, with the exception of glitching/hacking, everything is considered fair or unfair by someone and that if you believe a tactic to be unfair, rather than come here and rage, come here to discuss ways to counter that tactic because, not only is it highly unlikely that the people who use those tactics see them as unfair, but that demanding a nerf or declaring that tactic op limit both your skill as a player and harm the meta as well by imposing unnatural/unnecessary restrictions on "fair" gameplay that limit variety and creativity. A tactic is developed then a counter, then a alternate tactic then a counter ect. if no one looks for that counter and instead deems it 'cheap' then the cycle breaks and the meta we all love dies.

That is an accurate summation. What I said was not an admonition but more of a cautionary tale. I did not want this thread to be a what's cheap or not discussion, but more of a "how can I adapt" discussion. If one tries in earnest but cannot find a counter then that is a different story, but this game is still too young to say "I've tried everything."