For the Glory of Alvina

With the distance you get from the sniper bolt, hawk ring, and sniper crossbow you aren't going to hit anything. Targets will either be too far away or moving so you just can't judge it properly. Probably there is some guy out there that can do this, but unless you are capable of mathematically figuring it out in your head where they will be based upon variables, etc, you'll miss more than likely at that range.

Also a little note, you don't need the hawk ring for poison arrows to hit at a distance. They'll deal no damage, but a little trick some don't know is the poison effect isn't bothered by range. So you can still easily poison a person while dealing literally no damage with the arrow.

Training....Training...does it ever end??....

Training (or constantly invading) people - that is the path to victory. Most people master 1-4 melee weapons (average) for each of their toons (comments are invited on this statement people - please chime in!!). I have very good understanding of the following melee weapons: Scythe,Mura,Flamberge,Iato and C. Trident but in my opinion that is not enough. I have fought dozens of battles with each of these weapons - encountering situations (weapon match-ups) in which they were effective but also ineffective. I keep thinking what is the best way to increase my effectiveness against the multitude of different builds (and weapons) in the forest? My answer is to constantly experiment with the intent of fully understanding the best use of as many melee weapons in DkS as possible. My objective is to know which weapon I should employ in order to better match-up against the various weapons I will be facing. I constantly ask my self should I use an equally fast weapon when presented with a fast weapon or should I switch to speedy longer reach weapon so I can stay out harms way. Do I use a high probability stun-lock weapon against a weapon which can cause stun-lock just as easily? The questions going through my mind when I invade are endless but all originate from my desire to know the exact weapon to use in order to match-up well against my opponent's weapon.

I am currently training with the Great Scythe (shout-out to skare for selling me on this weapon!!), Velka's Rapier and Balder Side Sword. I include one of these three weapons as back-up to my main and switch back and forth constantly to determine how best to use it (range, speed, damage, stamina drain, etc). Success has been fleeting since I have lost a few matches due to my experimentation but oh well I need the experience more than I need the win (don't let Alvina know I just said that!!!). And so my training continues but I am confident I will be able to eventually take down a ganker with anyone of these weapons.

Fellow hunters and members of friendly covenants - how many melee weapons have you mastered and how rough (or easy) was the road in order to become such a "jedi" with it?

Training...Training....constantly training to become better - that is the path to victory!!

befowler wrote:Good tips tolvo. Also, what do you think about sniper bolts? Do they have any real effect on range? I was trying to decide between medium distance avelyn for increased odds that at least 1 bolt hits (albeit with less dmg) vs. very long distance sniper crossbow + sniper bolts for harrassment and possible middling dmg. In particular, I'd like to be able to stand off completely, so maybe hawk + ring of fog if I can get the distance from a sniper crossbow.

Yes - when I use my Avelyn I alternate between ligtning bolts and sniper bolts. The sniper bolts allow you to lock-on to your target at greater distances - so they are my favorite behind the lightning bolts (the attack disrupton capability of these bolts are very good).

Balder Side Sword, Long Sword, Great Lord Great Sword, Trident, MLGS, Flachion, Shotel, Silver Knight Spear, Gargoyle Halberd, Halberd, Bandit's Knife, Rapier, Ricard's Rapier, Estoc, Murakumo, Gravelord Sword, Zweihander, Greatsword, Caestus, Sunlight Straight Sword, the list goes on. I PvP with a lot of different weapons basically.

Tolvo wrote:With the distance you get from the sniper bolt, hawk ring, and sniper crossbow you aren't going to hit anything. Targets will either be too far away or moving so you just can't judge it properly.

Yeah, I foresee this only for certain select circumstances, namely when you run into farmers that are too scared to run very far from the stairs. Fairly often I run into groups that just stand there at the stairs waiting for FHs to run to them, rather than risk the ents/terrain etc. It's fun to stand off and hit them with poison or dragonslayer arrows, but the damage isn't great and usually they rush me. What I'd really like to do is get so far back that they can't even figure out where I'm shooting from, and then keep moving position between shots. The sniper crossbow + sniper bolts + hawk seems like the longest range possible, if you presume your target will be standing stationary near the stairs like an idiot, or at worst milling around in a tight group of 3 so you can just fire into the mass. The stairs huggers would also be my primary target if I can get this to work from the moonlight butterfly area.

Tolvo wrote:Balder Side Sword, Long Sword, Great Lord Great Sword, Trident, MLGS, Flachion, Shotel, Silver Knight Spear, Gargoyle Halberd, Halberd, Bandit's Knife, Rapier, Ricard's Rapier, Estoc, Murakumo, Gravelord Sword, Zweihander, Greatsword, Caestus, Sunlight Straight Sword, the list goes on. I PvP with a lot of different weapons basically.

Tolvo - your in a whole category by yourself. Like I said before you are a freaking beast!!!

Yeah a dream of mine is to encounter tolvo in the forest someday, just to see him in action since we're both PSN and similar sl I think. Tolvo do you record any of your matches? You should.

Thanks Broke, but I just find myself testing out a lot of weapons is all. As well in FC I cosplay PvP, as I always do when Duelling. So I've used pretty much every weapon in the game at some point, then I always practice with them in the forest and the rest just works itself out really. If only I could get Scythes down though, that weapon just escapes me.

I hope to some day record, I'll need a better computer though and the proper equipment. Maybe after the next film I'll have some extra money laying around and can work towards.

Great scythes or standard Tolvo? I could help with the standard scythe and all it's derivatives

Great scythes, Standards I am fine with since I'm used to the Gargoyle Halberd. For Great Scythes it's not exactly that I can't use them, just that I don't like to. It's not even, "Oh I don't like the dead angles, or the quick hits, or the damage." It's literally, "Eh, just doesn't feel right in my hands."

I'm the same way with great scythes. Trying to love them, but just not feeling it. Still, it's good to test all weapons just so you know what to expect from them in the hands of others.

I still can't love the lifehunt. It's bugging me but I always end up using the 2h r2. It feels like a more defensive weapon, and I know it isn't but gah I can't just use it.

Rapiers are an entirely different breed from the scythe moveset, and I find it more fun to just roll and poke with it. I'm not doing any massive damage but it's fun to poke people. Poke poke poke roll away. I'm avoiding the katanas because of acid surge, I hide inside that cloud alot for breathing room and prepping a tempest, so crystal weapons too.

Has anyone made a decent Mage build for hunting? Maybe I'll work on a sneaky sniper type toon

I actually agree that scythes are more defensive. They can be tough to be aggressive with because of fairly high stamina use or narrow hit box.

Befowler, I have a hawk ring moved nearby my primary ring for long distance harassing. When you get lousy farmers this works great. Anyone willing to look can see how the arrow sticks and determine direction but you're right about insane distance shots allowing you to move and repeat. With my setup which sounds like it has less range than you might get, I can easily do a healthy chunk of damage from the middle of the ent part of the forest to the stairs. Even on tanks its over 100 from there and that's usually poison arrows. Panic doesn't begin to describe it

befowler wrote:I'm the same way with great scythes. Trying to love them, but just not feeling it. Still, it's good to test all weapons just so you know what to expect from them in the hands of others.

I am in the same camp as Befowler and Tolvo in regards to the Great Scythe - I just constantly feel that something is wrong when I use it. But I'm going keep trying though gosh darn it!!! I guess in a sense the Great Scythe is kinda of a specialized weapon (so I assume the Lifehunt is similar) in regards to the moveset but once you got it down I know it can be a very effective tool of destruction. I will just keep trying til I kill a camper with it. Will not let a piece of cold steel beat me especially after all of the gank downs I have experienced in the forest. Perseverance must mean something I guess....

Off to the forest I go to do some more experimentation....

Ok ok you guys...I'll admit it. It's literally the most awkward weapon moveset and less graceful than a club.

skarekrow13 wrote:Ok ok you guys...I'll admit it. It's literally the most awkward weapon moveset and less graceful than a club.

Spoken like a true Great Scythe master!!Skare - I am going to learn how to use the GS if it kills me (well it has several times already but what they heck no guts, no glory in my book). The reach is what draws me to the GS - I do decent damage 2H (roughly 509 straight normal damage so I can buff) so for these reasons I must learn how to use the GS. I do see bleed as simply being some level of "icing on the cake" since you really don't want to go to town with this weapon because of high stamina drain - so bleed build up is tertiary to the reasons for wanting to master it.

Once I learn how to use it - I will definitely tape it (ok PVR it for the younger people) and post on the forum. By the way I think some of Alvina's servants and allies should start post clips of their battles in this thread. I have a few already (too many losses to count though ) made just need to process them so I can post on Youtube (or somewhere else). I have learned alot by watching my losses to analyze my mistakes - it is really a great learning tool. You also can analyze how farmers who you repeatedly invade fight. I plan on taping every farmer who is in the "kill at all cost" section of my bingo book!!

Actually broke that may help people more in some ways to upload failures. It could hurt the ego, but maybe you can use subtitles or commentary to point our your mistakes, and talk about better ways to respond to enemies. You learn more from your losses than your victories if you ask me.

Tolvo wrote:Actually broke that may help people more in some ways to upload failures. It could hurt the ego, but maybe you can use subtitles or commentary to point our your mistakes, and talk about better ways to respond to enemies. You learn more from your losses than your victories if you ask me.

I agree completely and yes I was going provide some written commentary (until I learn how to add voice and music to the clips). And yes - victories are nice but it those losses that teach you and I don't mind showing any of my losses :oops: ) I definitely want skare to witness (I think I taped it)the ultimate fail with the GS - I had this red down to like a sliver of his life but I kept going to town so as would be the norm I got BS'd and died. Also, I was like completely drained of stamina from swinging like crazy - I basically turned into shrimp bait during that invasion.

cloudyeki wrote:I still can't love the lifehunt. It's bugging me but I always end up using the 2h r2. It feels like a more defensive weapon, and I know it isn't but gah I can't just use it.

Rapiers are an entirely different breed from the scythe moveset, and I find it more fun to just roll and poke with it. I'm not doing any massive damage but it's fun to poke people. Poke poke poke roll away. I'm avoiding the katanas because of acid surge, I hide inside that cloud alot for breathing room and prepping a tempest, so crystal weapons too.

Maybe it's a stylistic thing - I'm mainly a Rapier/Balder Side Sword user and do a lot of the poke/roll thing too. I like the Iaito and Claymore for variety sometimes. But I can't seem to wrap my mind around the Great Scythe no matter how hard I try...I just end up getting myself way out of position and die horribly. The running 2H R1 attack really is fantastic though.

Acid surge is no reason to avoid kats. Avoid it like the plauge and have a secondary but most enemies cant use it and most that can don't think to try

eninala wrote:

cloudyeki wrote:I still can't love the lifehunt. It's bugging me but I always end up using the 2h r2. It feels like a more defensive weapon, and I know it isn't but gah I can't just use it.

Rapiers are an entirely different breed from the scythe moveset, and I find it more fun to just roll and poke with it. I'm not doing any massive damage but it's fun to poke people. Poke poke poke roll away. I'm avoiding the katanas because of acid surge, I hide inside that cloud alot for breathing room and prepping a tempest, so crystal weapons too.

Maybe it's a stylistic thing - I'm mainly a Rapier/Balder Side Sword user and do a lot of the poke/roll thing too. I like the Iaito and Claymore for variety sometimes. But I can't seem to wrap my mind around the Great Scythe no matter how hard I try...I just end up getting myself way out of position and die horribly. The running 2H R1 attack really is fantastic though.

Yeah - I think I will reset my training on the GS to only use it for the running 2H attack then switch to my primary weapon. Basically, using the GS for the initial stun affect (hopefully get a dead angle)as way to offensively close the distance then use a weapon I know better in close quarters combat. I am accustomed to the running jumping attack since I use it with my Mura (usually 1H though) so I should be able to leverage that knowledge. Then progress to learning the other movesets over time.

try fighting lock off with the gs. That way it dead angles better and is tougher to bs punnish.

I use acid surge because people avoid it like the plague. That mentality is how I usually win my hunts.

oh i didn't say be dumb about it.

ex back roll out and cast hcsm or buff your weapon.

Broke, I've been there: "Wait, don't I need stamina to block? Crap"

If you wanna learn distances and spacing quickly I recommend the Kiln challenge. It's the first area I used a scythe and man.....trial by fire. I wasused to straight swords so block then quick attack. Between the block and swing with the scythe you have no stamina. So......here's the challenge:

Kill the knights with the scythe. No blocking. No rolling. No backstabs (not that I think that one will bother anyone here). Essentially you have to stay in front of each knight and learn to space to make them whiff and then strike.