For the Glory of Alvina

skarekrow13 wrote:Broke, I've been there: "Wait, don't I need stamina to block? Crap"

If you wanna learn distances and spacing quickly I recommend the Kiln challenge. It's the first area I used a scythe and man.....trial by fire. I wasused to straight swords so block then quick attack. Between the block and swing with the scythe you have no stamina. So......here's the challenge:

Kill the knights with the scythe. No blocking. No rolling. No backstabs (not that I think that one will bother anyone here). Essentially you have to stay in front of each knight and learn to space to make them whiff and then strike.

Skare - thank for the training tip. I am definitely going to try this since I believe spacing is the facet of this weapon that still remains a mystery for me. I will let everyone know how this training goes - now I've got to go fight those darn knights - oh well such is the life of a hunter in training.

The spear knight is the hardest by far and I find that sidestepping is still an important move to remember. The other plus (for me at least since I didn't have much PvP experience at the time) is that the Sword knights have similar reach to player characters with a longer weapon (Great Swords). Plus the Great Sword and Ax Knights were definitely good practice for farmers. After I started doing PvP I was always curious why everyone found the Ax to be so hard to defend against. After doing this a LOT I've come to the conclusion that the reach sucks and the power attack is so predictable it's always my fault for getting hit.

I did all this while dropping white signs to help with Gwyn, run through the knights and homeward bone out if I wasn't summoned.

Also, not to nitpick but you called me a master earlier. That's definitely not me. I'll toot my own horn and say that I see probably most if not all of the potential ways to use this weapon like one but quite often fall short in combat situations. I've only fought one forum member I found in the forest so I have no idea how I stack up but I'll confess I've only ever landed to parries in PvP and am still not a consistent winner.

I'm leaning towards lighter weapons these days because you can't ever go really negative on stamina. One thing I've been paying more attention to with the heavy weapons is that if you trigger a big attack with only a sliver of stamina, it looks like you still pay the full stamina price by having your stamina go way into the negatives; your bar doesn't even start to refill for a few moments above 0 presumably due to the negative. This has gotten me in trouble a number of times with the great scythe on chars where for whatever reason the math seems to work out with me going way below 0 a lot. Those long moments where you can't block/parry/roll while also stuck with a heavy weapon you can't swing are murder. Even grass crest shield on the back etc only helps so much.

befowler wrote:I'm leaning towards lighter weapons these days because you can't ever go really negative on stamina. One thing I've been paying more attention to with the heavy weapons is that if you trigger a big attack with only a sliver of stamina, it looks like you still pay the full stamina price by having your stamina go way into the negatives; your bar doesn't even start to refill for a few moments above 0 presumably due to the negative. This has gotten me in trouble a number of times with the great scythe on chars where for whatever reason the math seems to work out with me going way below 0 a lot. Those long moments where you can't block/parry/roll while also stuck with a heavy weapon you can't swing are murder. Even grass crest shield on the back etc only helps so much.

Lack of stamina has killed me many times - especially my early days as hunter. Fighting against those 2v1's can at times quickly eat into your stamina. I religously rely on stamina boosters (grass shield, child's mask & blossoms - I know, Tolvo, I know 0 points for style) because I get careless with my stamina usage. I have learned to conserve stamina by believe it or not watching DkS clips on Youtube - specifically one person we may all have seen who parries like a boss. I noticed this player always tries to conserve stamina (minium running, rolling, etc) - he makes no unnecessary movements because he needs the stamina to block the 1st attack then parry the 2nd attack. I have incorporated this into my style of play - make my opponent use up their stamina then strike.

Well I think I have gained a full understanding of the Balder Side Sword (I use an occult version)- this weapon rocks!! The 2H attack is magnificent plus backing it up with the Mura - I have caused many of my opponents to basically think "Look at this dude's puny weapon - I'm not scared at all". I get them thinking this is all I got - use the speed of the BSS to get in a few hits and then evading - allowing the camper to build confidence since he knows I cannot stunlock them with the BSS. Once they get nice & comfortable and decide its safe to fight me in close quarters - I whip out the Mura then BAM I got'em stun-locked and the fights over. I had several kills using this strategy in the forest yesterday.

Now on to CSS - befowler and another person on this forum stated the stagger ability of this spell. They are sooo correct - I never really used CSS but now I have it attuned. I was able to kill a couple of gankers by luring them to the killer bushes - let them engage the bushes (now the camper has target rich enviroment so he cannot really focus on me) then fire a CSS into the mix. If they are staggered they are then grabbed by bush and finished off - if they have been foolish enough to allow themselves to be damaged by the ents then a CSS shot to the face will kill them.

Man I love being a servant of Alvina!

Haha sweet. Yeah the best thing about the CSS is it nukes their poise so not only does the spell stagger them, but for a period afterwards everything does -- every swing of your BSS, or even a long range ent sweep attack. And you actually can stunlock with the BSS on its own, if you don't target lock and one of the havels/giants guys tries to strafe you for a backstab. The swings are so fast that you can quickly keep turning in place to keep him from getting behind you, slicing away the whole time. It may take 3-4 swings to do it, but it goes faster than you think particularly if they aren't particularly skilled and are focused just on getting cheap backstabs. Plus once they are stunlocked they panic -- there is little more embarrassing to a guy in full havels than getting stunlocked by basically a longsword. I use a BSS +15 and CMW for this because it actually does a fair amount of damage.

Also, the leo ring seems to work with the BSS if you attack after someone's swing, particularly the R2 thrust attack. It's really fun

is it just me, or has it been taking longer for Alvina to call? today I've invaded a total of maybe 10 times, and its 15-20 minute waits

I couldn't withstand the temptation anymore, and killed Gwyndolin to get the Brass Armor set. So, until I have enough free time to kill Gwyn and go through NG+ I'll be a Forest Hunter 8) .

One thing I immediately became aware of - I'm pretty terrible at Forest Invading. I always lose track of the host's phantom and get backstabbed or stunlocked. Last night I tried going with the Hornet Ring, managed to land a riposte with a SB-buffed Ricard's Rapier doing ~1700 damage...which is great except that the host had probably another 300-400 hp. I wasn't able to chain bs, and then got backstabbed myself by the phantom. And died.

I think it's time to sit down and review everyone's tips. When I was a DM I always spawned at Sif's bridge so it was always easy to bring people over the mushroom pond. I'll have to learn the rest of the map now I guess.

cloudyeki wrote:is it just me, or has it been taking longer for Alvina to call? today I've invaded a total of maybe 10 times, and its 15-20 minute waits

I'm working so I don't know about tonight, but earlier today (~5 pm) I was invading within 30 secs or so pretty consistently.

Alright, it was just my connection.

@eninala: Welcome to the clan. I wish you good hunting, and check out the wiki page for the forest hunters, it has general tips to help you start off.

eninala wrote:

cloudyeki wrote:is it just me, or has it been taking longer for Alvina to call? today I've invaded a total of maybe 10 times, and its 15-20 minute waits

I'm working so I don't know about tonight, but earlier today (~5 pm) I was invading within 30 secs or so pretty consistently.

@Eninala - welcome to a very trying but rewarding brotherhood. I hope you get your fill of killing gankers with no remorse.

@Cloud - remember whenever your invasions appear to be slow or long just quit all the way out the game (to the console screen) then reload. This will place you in a different lobby - hopefully with lots of hosts already in the lobby. I also do this when I get a series of gank fests by the same dudes - basically you will invade other hosts (hopefully eliminating them) then slowly I will work my way back to the same gankers when they have not dug in either due to resource use from fighting other invaders (so the host left and came back), phantom has left for whatever reason, etc.

Lately I have been receiving excellent support from other hunters - a lot more aggression and good teamwork. We may just may have a cadre of decent warriors ready to lend their blade to fulfill Alvina's wishes (on XBOX at least).

eninala wrote:I couldn't withstand the temptation anymore, and killed Gwyndolin to get the Brass Armor set. So, until I have enough free time to kill Gwyn and go through NG+ I'll be a Forest Hunter 8) .

One thing I immediately became aware of - I'm pretty terrible at Forest Invading. I always lose track of the host's phantom and get backstabbed or stunlocked. Last night I tried going with the Hornet Ring, managed to land a riposte with a SB-buffed Ricard's Rapier doing ~1700 damage...which is great except that the host had probably another 300-400 hp. I wasn't able to chain bs, and then got backstabbed myself by the phantom. And died.

I think it's time to sit down and review everyone's tips. When I was a DM I always spawned at Sif's bridge so it was always easy to bring people over the mushroom pond. I'll have to learn the rest of the map now I guess.

@Eninala - I recommend you walk the whole forest in your own world to obtain a good understanding of the forest layout. The forest is an excellent battlefield once you know the topology. And as cloud stated read some of the posts in this thread to glean tactics which are useful when u invade. The environment itself provides you some measure of an advantage especially, if the camper hasn't dug in. The environment can allow you to survive for quite a while so you should be able to receive some backup if you are being banged - use the trees, logs, NPCs, etc if u needed to.

Ok people - I finally got my Hauppauge 1212 HD PVR fully stabilized so I can now start focusing on uploading training videos so I can publish to the thread. If anyone has the 1212 model and have been experiencing problems recording (supposedly newer 1212s work very well and the Gaming Edition is also supposed to be more reliable) or is looking to purchase one please PM me and I will tell you how to get it to record 100% (maybe 98%) of the time.

Within the next week or so I will be uploading "Forest Defense" videos for your viewing pleasure and if your so inclined laughter at my butt getting badly beat down. :oops:

I can't wait to watch your *** in action Broke!

I'm going to try recording some with a camera if I can actually put the videos on this miserable excuse for a computer. I won't be able to record actual fights, because I'd have to hold the camera in one hand. But I might be able to set up a make shift tripod a few times and do training exercises in the forest, such as my typical run throughs of the forest.

I just received some interesting information regarding a glitch we all know about - the dragonoid roar + bow + BS. Well it appears after one of my compatriots conducted some extensive testing of this glitch (or attack) he discovered it is partly a ruse (feint, trick, diversion, stunt, etc). The part of the attack which is the ruse is the "dragon roar" - IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ATTACK/GLITCH. The only reason for the roar is for the stun effect making it easier to pull of the BS - if u can avoid the stun you avoid the attack - the dragonoid can OHK BS you WITHOUT ROARING FIRST. The roar is basically to distract you - it is to take you out of your game.

My recommendation is to pop off a TWoP (or a ranged spell)and do your thing. Or maybe you could use Force as the dragonoid is circling trying to execute the BS or land some free attacks then roll away (or finish them). The primary weakness of this attack is the fact the dragonoid is basically holding a ranged weapon with TWO HANDS - he cannot hold anything else so basically he is defenseless other than the dragonoids natural resistances. He cannot melee attack (someone please speak up if u can execute a normal melee attack with a bow???). This risky attack can allow you to turn your opponent into shrimp bait very quickly.

I hope this information can help any ally of Alvina in her quest to rid the forest of all trespassers.

My trick is stunlocking them with a Shotel. I don't lock on and dead angle it and stunlock them till death, even if they have a wolf ring you can still get them as they try to BS fish, and yeah the dragon roar is used the same as the Force Rapier Hornet's BS fishers which I always roll through and BS.

Tolvo wrote:My trick is stunlocking them with a Shotel. I don't lock on and dead angle it and stunlock them till death, even if they have a wolf ring you can still get them as they try to BS fish, and yeah the dragon roar is used the same as the Force Rapier Hornet's BS fishers which I always roll through and BS.

Yeah - I was victimized by this attack/glitch one time. Now that I know what it is - it will never happen again especially if its 1v1. In fact the time it did happen the camper pulled it off twice - once on the other hunter then on me :shock: . I just did not exactly know what I was witnessing - lack of knowledge will kill you every time!!. I have fought several dragonoids since then and this attack has not worked (not saying him and his buddy didn't kill me I just wasn't victimized again )

Yeah - I usually equip a occult Shotel for just those reasons (low poise farmers).Trying to maintain a streamlined inventory at all times so I put the Shotel in storage - may need to dust it off again. I will either use that or my occult Balder sword (Ilm digging this weapon !!) on'em - I think I'm ready for this type of scenario in the future.

I have been victimized by those Hornet users though - but I have gotten better at avoiding BS (unless outright ganked) so the stress level has fallen a little in this area.

Hopefully, I can get some "ganker" hunting in today - really need to feel the chaos of the woods.

If you have a friend it does well to practice spar with them using only fists, and learn to avoid BS, and to BS yourself. Sometimes we do that down in the pit in FC, though most of us really don't need it just a refresher. It never hurts to keep yourself prepared and in the mind set.

I, have a confession to make. All along, I've actually been a forest farmer. All of my tips and tricks have actually been things I've seen forest hunters use against me. All those stories of killing farmers? Lies, just retellings of my own failures from the perspective of my killers. I've kept this going so long, but I just had to get this off my chest, I also carry an MLGS and always go for a BS, when not stunlocking as my phantoms do the dirty work. When someone kills me skillfully, I send them a nasty message.

This is a sad day I imagine, for all of the words I've said to help the hunters I've secretly been working against them all along, let April First be known as a dark day.

The whole forest of the damned? I literally just sat in my kitchen drinking coffee while looking at the clock on my stove and playing with my beard and moustache. That wasn't even me in the chat talking with Broke and others, I just left my dog on the keyboard in the dining room and it did the rest.

NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

Tolvo wrote:I, have a confession to make. All along, I've actually been a forest farmer. All of my tips and tricks have actually been things I've seen forest hunters use against me. All those stories of killing farmers? Lies, just retellings of my own failures from the perspective of my killers. I've kept this going so long, but I just had to get this off my chest, I also carry an MLGS and always go for a BS, when not stunlocking as my phantoms do the dirty work. When someone kills me skillfully, I send them a nasty message.

This is a sad day I imagine, for all of the words I've said to help the hunters I've secretly been working against them all along, let April First be known as a dark day.

The whole forest of the damned? I literally just sat in my kitchen drinking coffee while looking at the clock on my stove and playing with my beard and moustache. That wasn't even me in the chat talking with Broke and others, I just left my dog on the keyboard in the dining room and it did the rest.

Tolvo - you are killing me man!!!Don't know if you are being serious or being sarcastic. I don't believe you are being serious though.

Are you being serious???

Well here is my first Forest Defense video uploaded to YouTube. I call it "A Tree and Silence". I basically used the fact phantoms don't make any sounds, the tree for cover and a little poison to finish off this camper . You can also see the importance of poise since I was continuously able to attack even though I was struck one time by the farmer's GSA. Also, I think the farmer was actually killed by the poison effects at the very end - check out his health bar after/during the my last strike.

You can also see I am very cautious when I invade (especially when it is very quiet and I cannot see the camper). I have been killed a couple of times by reds circling around and attacking me from the rear (remember they are immune to NPCs and other enemies just like you are)- so try to determine what is going on when u invade. I never run to my death - I checkout the scene before making my move. Some may call this cowardice but I call it surviving!!

https://youtu.be/3mk3CxEiYC0

Everyone check it out a let me know what you think.

Well done...the pendant and indictment amped it up to epic

skarekrow13 wrote:Well done...the pendant and indictment amped it up to epic

Skare - thanks bro . Trying to keep the moral of Alvina's servants and allies as high as possible. We can be victorious in the forest if we only use our noodle a little bit. Even if I am being banged - my objective starts to lean towards the goal of keeping the fight going long enough for help to arrive. I just love it when the tide of battles suddenly turns in my favor or at least the pendulum starts to swing my way.

Will be posting one more video today for everyone's viewing pleasure.

Teamwork.....Versatility....Teamwork...Two ways to be victorious?

If you are going to 2v1 a farmer then teamwork is essential. Two hunters must work in unison to win. In this video I was not going to initially bang this farmer after the other hunter invades - that is until the farmer tries to summon a minion. Summoning attempts are always my signal for participating in a bang - if he had not tried to summon I would have kicked back against a tree and waited my turn (now I may have given the other hunter a buff with my Trident to make things interesting ).

I am a firm believer in using all weapons and support tools to kill a ganker/farmer as efficiently as possible. In this fight I used spells, melee weapons, Lloyds and ranged weaponry to be victorious. This camper was very good at evading attacks plus he wore a DWGR (I think). I knew the other hunter was a bruiser due to the type of weapon he carried so I chose to mix-up my style by acting as both direct assailant and assistant. Let just say I was Robin and the other hunter was Batman.

https://youtu.be/AAdZYPyIUtQ

Good teamwork and versatility/adaptability will allow you to win the day.

I have literally never seen resonance rings beside the two non-line ones in the catacombs. Wow! The unlisted status makes me feel special too. Another good video