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    Black Phantom Mode - aka "BP Mode"

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    Post by BLA1NE Tue May 15, 2012 8:12 pm

    (This should have got its own thread sooner!)

    There's been talk, here and there, about this crazy idea we have called "Black Phantom Mode" ("BP Mode" for short). Thing is, sadly, the chances of this happening are slim to none. So I created this thread in the hopes of spreading interest, demand, and hype, so that eventually, hopefully, it would reach From through the grapevine. They would be so inspired by the idea, that they would be compelled to make it so, just by hearing the electrified whispers of it throughout the community!

    So here's the idea:

    It's quite simple, really, it's just starting a New Game like any other. Only this BP Mode NG would have 2 twists:

    - Every area in Lordran is permanently gravelorded. So all the Black Phantoms that would spawn, were you infected by a Gravelord, are always present in this game file.

    - There is no Bottomless Box. This may sound like a strange condition, but it's to avoid people using the BB glitch to give themselves an edge in order to conquer BP Mode.

    - (Potential third twist: there is no Masterkey.)

    - (Potential fourth twist: bosses are 1 NG tougher than in regular mode. So bosses in BP NG are the same as bosses in NG+)

    - (Potential fifth twist: something nerfing co-op summons!)

    BP Mode would be the epitome of Dark Souls. "The real Dark Souls starts here." (Btw: I think that should be an orange soapstone message on the floor of your cell when you start a NG in BP Mode!) So no cutting corners here. To gain access to the mode, you simply beat the game once, and after the credits get a prompt informing you that "You have unlocked the Black Phantom Mode as a New Game option." Then on the New Game/ Load Game screen, choose New Game, and a new option comes up to "Start New Game as: Regular/ Black Phantom Mode". Select PB Mode, and you're thrown into the deep end--the magnificent, amazing deep end!


    So we can use this thread for 2 things: discuss twists you would like added/ removed/ changed, to BP Mode; spread the word about the mode. This must happen!
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    Post by Serious_Much Tue May 15, 2012 8:16 pm

    summons and masterkey limitation is unrealistic.

    The bosses I believe would HAVE to be harder, maybe not 1 NG higher as that would be too steep earlier on but a definite higher curve would and should be implemented.
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    Post by BLA1NE Tue May 15, 2012 8:18 pm

    Forgot to mention: the point of this would be to revive interest in PvE, for those who have mastered it a long time ago... I miss the feeling of discovery and hazard, not knowing what was around the next corner, and treading carefully.

    For me, now, PvE may as well be a drop-down menu. "Select weapons, select upgrades, select stats; go duel!"

    BP Mode would draw me back into PvE for the sake of PvE, not solely as a backdrop to community meta-games.
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    Post by BLA1NE Tue May 15, 2012 8:19 pm

    Serious_Much wrote:summons and masterkey limitation is unrealistic.
    Elaborate?

    I think there should maybe be a limit of 1 summon phantom, as opposed to 2.

    No masterkey would just be so people need to go through the entirety of the game, rather than skip through it all.
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    Post by Serious_Much Tue May 15, 2012 8:23 pm

    Unrealistic as in putting in a 'nerf' for summons is difficult but the idea of just 1 summon would work, though still most bosses are made ridiculously easy when one can dodge and take aggro while the other attacks..

    I think that the gift, you should have no choice in the matter. You get the pendant/no gift whichever we feel is better, end all and be all of the matter.
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    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? Tue May 15, 2012 8:27 pm

    I like it, but I don't know if the Gravelords would like it very much. Doing this pretty much removes the uniqueness out of their covenant.
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    Post by BLA1NE Tue May 15, 2012 8:30 pm

    No gift is a pretty good idea. We could have the masterkey available from Domnhall, but not as a starting gift.

    @Pendant:

    I was considering segregating the two player-pools, though. So if you're in BP Mode, you can only interact with other players in BP Mode. Gravelords would still be special in regular mode.
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    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? Tue May 15, 2012 8:33 pm

    So you're talking about completely getting rid of the covenant in BP mode?
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    Post by fearandwhiskey Tue May 15, 2012 8:38 pm

    I've had a few areas permanently gravelorded, and the only time it's frustrating is when you're just trying to do something, like run to Andre, and you have to fight that nasty knight who waits right by the elevator. Mostly the black phantoms make the game really fun! Sen's especially is a challenge--those black phantoms are plentiful and really agressive. There's a lightning throwing serpent on the broken bridge on the roof who has incredible range!

    I love this idea!

    I'd also be willing to follow Blaine through his next playthrough gravelording every area in his game. winking
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    Post by BLA1NE Tue May 15, 2012 8:39 pm

    @Pendant:

    It would still be there, but wouldn't serve much of a purpose, I guess. You could still get the Gravelord Sword from it, though.

    Point of BP Mode is to put the focus on PvE. Covenants are online and PvP-centric; they're not the focus of BP Mode, no.


    @Whiskey:

    Thanks for the offer! Someone gravelording my world would be almost the same as this, but it's possible now. Only thing is, I'm not sure I have the patience of waiting to get gravelorded before proceeding to each area... sad That's really why I want BP Mode to happen: for the simplicity of it, and because I can still attack the game at my pace.
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    Post by Carphil Tue May 15, 2012 8:44 pm

    Must. Happen.
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    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? Tue May 15, 2012 8:47 pm

    If you're talking about just making a PvE mode, why not just make it so that you are not allowed to level Vitality? Your starting VIT level will be your level for the entirety of the playthrough.
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    Post by BackwardsBaboon Tue May 15, 2012 8:48 pm

    You're right, the covenants (most of them anyways) seem to be all about online. I have done a lot of gravelording lately, and of all the people who have invaded me using my GL sign, 99% say they never saw any black phantoms. I myself have only seen them 3 or 4 times since the game's release. I would LOVE to see a BP mode implemented.
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    Post by BLA1NE Tue May 15, 2012 8:56 pm

    WhatDoesThePendantDo? wrote:If you're talking about just making a PvE mode, why not just make it so that you are not allowed to level Vitality? Your starting VIT level will be your level for the entirety of the playthrough.
    Elaborate? It sounds to me like that would only have the effect of limiting player choices. I don't see it adding anything to the mode, but rather it would take away plenty of viable play-styles. I like to be fast and agile and dodge everything. But sometimes I mis-time a dodge--it happens! So Vit is crucial for me. With not Vit, I'd pretty much be forced to use a shield, or get OHKed instantly as soon as I make a mistake. Doesn't sound appealing to me.


    @Babboon

    Spread the word! Only way we can make this happen.
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    Post by BoilerFan8472 Tue May 15, 2012 9:26 pm

    A BP mode would be amazing. The 1 phantom per player would be good too.

    In regards with the covenants, I say keep them, or at least the gravelord one. The gravelords could double the black phantoms in the world or make every enemy a black phantom.
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    Post by Yarxov Tue May 15, 2012 9:29 pm

    no VIT upping would be near impossible, so many BPs already OHK you with PvP level vitality, no upgrading it is a challenge in itself.
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    Post by Knight Alundil Tue May 15, 2012 9:30 pm

    BLA1NE wrote:
    WhatDoesThePendantDo? wrote:If you're talking about just making a PvE mode, why not just make it so that you are not allowed to level Vitality? Your starting VIT level will be your level for the entirety of the playthrough.
    Elaborate? It sounds to me like that would only have the effect of limiting player choices. I don't see it adding anything to the mode, but rather it would take away plenty of viable play-styles. I like to be fast and agile and dodge everything. But sometimes I mis-time a dodge--it happens! So Vit is crucial for me. With not Vit, I'd pretty much be forced to use a shield, or get OHKed instantly as soon as I make a mistake. Doesn't sound appealing to me.

    He means instead of the mode. just dont level vitality and play the game normally apart from that.
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    Post by User Tue May 15, 2012 9:53 pm

    Since you can't have it yet, the alternative is Gravelord Round-Up... Seen in toxic fun time.

    Seriously, I like the idea, but it is best of trying a 'demo' of the idea first. Gravelord Round-Up can help ya Blaine. I promise ya, it works. You can use it while waiting for BP mode.

    The only requirement? Having a personal Gravelord comrade follow you.
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    Post by Buggy Virus Tue May 15, 2012 10:00 pm

    Instead of no bottomless box. . . why not just fix the BB glitch. That is a much less heavy handed approach.

    But on the topic of a harder game experience: https://soulswiki.forumotion.com/t4121-improving-bosses?highlight=bosses
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    Post by Imarreteet23 Tue May 15, 2012 10:07 pm

    Didn't Rynn come up with this idea? Anyways, maybe someone can email From about this. It sounds super awesome.
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    Post by Maneater_Mildred Tue May 15, 2012 10:34 pm

    Imarreteet23 wrote:Didn't Rynn come up with this idea? Anyways, maybe someone can email From about this. It sounds super awesome.

    Just watch them put it in the pc and never port it to console. sad

    +1 vote for BP mode. Spread the word ppl.
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    Post by BLA1NE Tue May 15, 2012 10:38 pm

    Knight Alundil wrote:
    BLA1NE wrote:
    WhatDoesThePendantDo? wrote:If you're talking about just making a PvE mode, why not just make it so that you are not allowed to level Vitality? Your starting VIT level will be your level for the entirety of the playthrough.
    Elaborate? It sounds to me like that would only have the effect of limiting player choices. I don't see it adding anything to the mode, but rather it would take away plenty of viable play-styles. I like to be fast and agile and dodge everything. But sometimes I mis-time a dodge--it happens! So Vit is crucial for me. With not Vit, I'd pretty much be forced to use a shield, or get OHKed instantly as soon as I make a mistake. Doesn't sound appealing to me.

    He means instead of the mode. just dont level vitality and play the game normally apart from that.
    But the point of BP Mode isn't just that it's a challenge mode, it's that it adds a new layer to the existing PvE. I know the placement of every mob in the game (on top of that I know their weapons, movesets, loot, aggro range, how to bait them, how to run past them, how to backstab them safely, how to...) and after having beaten it 30+ times (making builds) having the BPs on top of the regular mobs would return some newness to the game. I don't want a challenge mode, I want something new. And since BPs are already coded into every area of the game, I'm pretty sure it would be quite easy for From to patch this in.

    @Acidic

    Yeah, since you and whiskey are both encouraging me to do it I might try. But like I said earlier, I just can't bring myself to coordinate a playthrough with someone else. I've literally never summoned anyone to my world in my 30+ playthroughs... I've helped a lot of players, but never summoned anyone. So if I can't even be bothered to summon someone to my world, just imagine how much effort it would take for me to coordinate an entire playthrough with someone else! I just like to play at my own pace (which, until we get BP mode, is breakneck speed! silly).


    @Ima:

    Yes, to the best of my knowledge, Rynn was the first to mention this idea.
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    Post by Rynn Tue May 15, 2012 10:52 pm

    Serious_Much wrote:Unrealistic as in putting in a 'nerf' for summons is difficult but the idea of just 1 summon would work, though still most bosses are made ridiculously easy when one can dodge and take aggro while the other attacks..

    I think that the gift, you should have no choice in the matter. You get the pendant/no gift whichever we feel is better, end all and be all of the matter.
    Make Black Phantom mode a gift.
    If From doesn't do it, I'm going to make a hack server that has it anyway.
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    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? Tue May 15, 2012 10:57 pm

    Rynn wrote:
    Serious_Much wrote:Unrealistic as in putting in a 'nerf' for summons is difficult but the idea of just 1 summon would work, though still most bosses are made ridiculously easy when one can dodge and take aggro while the other attacks..

    I think that the gift, you should have no choice in the matter. You get the pendant/no gift whichever we feel is better, end all and be all of the matter.
    Make Black Phantom mode a gift.
    If From doesn't do it, I'm going to make a hack server that has it anyway.

    haha

    Please do.
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    Post by Rynn Tue May 15, 2012 10:59 pm

    I wonder how popular the server would be.

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