The Story Behind: How and Why

Spurgun wrote:Something wierd i just noticed. Frampt gives you 100 souls if you feed him a red slab, but he only gives you 50 for all the other slabs. Why?

Probably because teh Red Slab goes faster or tastes like cherry.

In all seriousness, that is very strange. Perhaps the fact that it enhances fire weapons, so it is closer in power to the First Flame allows Frampt to gain more power from it? We never actually SEE the slabs, maybe it's larger.

Yes. It also made me think of the server. It has a snake on it and when upgraded with fire its description changes. coincidence? It seems that Frampt/Primordial serpents have something to do with fir/chaos.

Interesting post Shkar lol.

WyrmHero wrote:Interesting post Shkar lol.

I thought so. I was hoping it would spark some kind of discussion about it, but it looks like I was wrong for now at least. It was kind of a slow forum day.

Slow everywhere but the cov section.

DoughGuy wrote:Slow everywhere but the cov section.

It was slow there compared to yesterday, or whenever it was that Viral showed up after those few days and went into hyperdrive starting and participating in conversations.

Would anybody like to discuss the First Flame, find out what it would be exactly? Is it the "soul" of the earth, or is it simply a geothermal event? Let's decide.

My theory is the fist flame is the thought that started the war. A young womans hope that the dragons can ebe destroyed, rebellion. Of course I think it needs a better definition as its the flame of disparity. We need to know what caused the first disparity.

DoughGuy wrote:My theory is the fist flame is the thought that started the war. A young womans hope that the dragons can ebe destroyed, rebellion. Of course I think it needs a better definition as its the flame of disparity. We need to know what caused the first disparity.

I don't think the flame WAS "caused". I think it was there from the beginning. Even by fantasy game logic, all that energy would have had to come from SOMEWHERE.

It came from thought. Of course when you look into you can get a bit crazy with the time mechanics. If there was no disparity did time exist? It may but why would it? There was no reason for it too. So technically before the first flame time "passed" but nothing happened so it time didnt pass. Its hard to put into words . But basically he idea is the flame was a spontaneous thing that could have happened at any point. "Then there was fire". The wording here makes it sound like it just happened. There was no event, no combustion the fire was just there.
^
How confusing is that. I hope you can get what Im saying.

DoughGuy wrote:It came from thought. Of course when you look into you can get a bit crazy with the time mechanics. If there was no disparity did time exist? It may but why would it? There was no reason for it too. So technically before the first flame time "passed" but nothing happened so it time didnt pass. Its hard to put into words . But basically he idea is the flame was a spontaneous thing that could have happened at any point. "Then there was fire". The wording here makes it sound like it just happened. There was no event, no combustion the fire was just there.
^
How confusing is that. I hope you can get what Im saying.

I get what you're going for. The exact quote isn't that cut and dry though. "But then there was fire." "There were good guys, but then there were GREAT guys."

It doesn't necessarily imply that it came after. And what would there be before the flame? There was no time, no light or darkness, no heat or cold. Scientifically, the only possibility was that there was no matter before that. Meaning that the flame has always been a part of the "Earth".

Right well. We know there was a time before the flam ethough. The age of ancients existed for some time. So now we're looking at what caused it.
Schrodingers cat? There may or may not be fire under the earth, we wont know until we look?

DoughGuy wrote:Right well. We know there was a time before the flam ethough. The age of ancients existed for some time. So now we're looking at what caused it.
Schrodingers cat? There may or may not be fire under the earth, we wont know until we look?

I think we should actually come to a consensus on whether it was there at the start first or not, as I remain unconvinced. I can think of no scenario where something could exist BEFORE the flame.

The intro is pretty clear that the age of ancients existed fr a time. I would also say by the name "everlasting dragons" that a fair amount of time passed while the world was in the age of ancients. The flame was not there at the start.

DoughGuy wrote:The intro is pretty clear that the age of ancients existed fr a time. I would also say by the name "everlasting dragons" that a fair amount of time passed while the world was in the age of ancients. The flame was not there at the start.

Ok, stop me if you don't think this can count as evidence, but bear with me.

"shrouded by fog" fog = water vapor (mostly)

Archtrees are still trees, we see their roots grow towards sources of water or nutrients and their branches stretch towards the sun. This implies that they still need water, which would need to be in a liquid state.

We have both liquid and vaporized water. The fog indicates that it is beyond the equilibrium point, so the vapor isn't just the volume filling up, but some of the water has actively evaporated. The most likely reason? Heat. Something said to only come from the first flame.

As I pointed out earlier the ash lake in the intro vid isnt actually a lake, its dry. You can see it when the witches weave their firestorms and when Gwyn is throwing his bolt. There is no water originally. If you want I can dig up my theory on why there is water there.
However I will agree that the vapour we see there now is due to the fires heat.

DoughGuy wrote:As I pointed out earlier the ash lake in the intro vid isnt actually a lake, its dry. You can see it when the witches weave their firestorms and when Gwyn is throwing his bolt. There is no water originally. If you want I can dig up my theory on why there is water there.
However I will agree that the vapour we see there now is due to the fires heat.

How about the dragons? Everybody says they aren't "alive", but they definitely existed. Unless they were just natural stone deposits before the flame, they had to have sentience/movement. That is basically the entire definition of "alive". They were animate.

Just a thought, but in general dragon lore, dragons are almost as often linked to the sun as they are to fire (and elements in general for that matter), so it wouldn't be too far of a leap to think that the drakes/wyverns have, over the vast amount of time they live, learned to adapt, and even thrive off of the sun's light.

PS. This is, obviously, based on a belief that the Everlast Dragons thrived on something completely different, with the whole 'there was only darkness' spiel

Hmm, although, it is never really said that there was no sunlight, just that the unformed planet was shrouded in perpetual fog... so the Evers could have flown above that to soak in the good stuff, but a) that would imply they needed no air to breathe, space ya know..., and b) it just doesn't seem like they are the photosynthetic types to me =P
...Though it kinda would make sense after all: all we know is that the land was unformed, perpetual fog was all around, and there were Archtrees. Sooo, photosynthesis does seem like the logical conclusion, unless they behaved more like mushrooms...

See, this is why I don't like thinking, I keep finding arguments AND counterarguments -_-' imma quit talking here...

Quick little discussion: every NPC that talks about the summon signs refers to it as a signature. If you were to forge someone else's signature with the soapstone, would they get summoned against their will?

That would be the most amazing game mechanic ever.

skarekrow13 wrote:That would be the most amazing game mechanic ever.

Indeed it would, but would it work with NPCs? Could you forge Solaire's sign with the red soapstone?

Hey, maybe that's what causes you to invade as the wrong color!

Let's try to get inside the mind of Andre. What is the only living human known to be in Lordran doing as a blacksmith less then a hundred yards from a titanite demon?

if you were a blacksmith looking for rare materials in Lordran, where would yo ulok to find them?

DoughGuy wrote:if you were a blacksmith looking for rare materials in Lordran, where would yo ulok to find them?

What would an artisan be doing in a land inhabited solely by demons and the risen dead?

Have you read the description of the titanite chunks? Also embers.